Formula 1 2022

[PaulRhB]

Why not just have something like plastic or teflon strips to reduce traction off the limits? Make them wider as they get further away so traction decreases. It’s not going to damage tyres but the drivers know it’s slippery so going round the outside could spin them out like grass does. Cars can’t get bogged down but it punishes you the more you abuse it. Simple to retrofit on any hard surface too. 

[njee20]

  

3 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

It wouldn't be awful. The racing would just be on the track, where it should be.

It is the consistent going wide at certain turns which is wrong. Drivers claim they 'need' to go wide. The stewards have done a much better job with track limits this year: 3 warnings then a penalty. They appeared to start implementing this rule in Miami, but the drivers got used to it very quickly & the drivers make sure they don't go wide after their 3rd warning because they know they will get penalised.

So do the drivers 'need' to go wide at the turn exits? It seems they don't if nobody else does. Has the racing suffered? We hear the drivers whinge about each other going off, but the stewards are already on top of the situation before they hear these messages. I find it amusing really.

 

 

Hang on... you said you said you wanted to penalise any track limit violation, now it's only certain corners where going wide is an issue, and that 3-strikes is ok? That's not "penalising any error".

 

It's not about the actual racing, but the sentiment. To misquote Senna if you no longer go for a gap because the risk of penalty is far higher than the reward then you are no longer a racing driver. If they fear that it is nailed on that running wide will equal a penalty why would you ever try and out brake someone?

Edited November 15, 2022 by njee20

[Pete the Elaner]

10 minutes ago, njee20 said:

  

 

 

Hang on... you said you said you wanted to penalise any track limit violation, now it's only certain corners where going wide is an issue, and that 3-strikes is ok? That's not "penalising any error".

 

It's not about the actual racing, but the sentiment. To misquote Senna if you no longer go for a gap because the risk of penalty is far higher than the reward then you are no longer a racing driver. If they fear that it is nailed on that running wide will equal a penalty why would you ever try and out brake someone?

 

Track limits are a problem at certain corners, but you would need to be consistent everywhere, which is what the stewards have been since Miami.

Drivers should go for some gaps, but they are always taking a chance & sometimes it just won't work. They don't have to be huge penalties. Verstappen got 5s for Sunday's collision. If they are deemed at fault, the penalty should at least put them behind the driver they hindered. With that, I am thinking of Norris v Perez in Austria last year. Norris ran Perez wide & was given a small penalty, I think 5s. After serving it, he was still well ahead of Perez.

[Pete the Elaner]

17 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Why not just have something like plastic or teflon strips to reduce traction off the limits? Make them wider as they get further away so traction decreases. It’s not going to damage tyres but the drivers know it’s slippery so going round the outside could spin them out like grass does. Cars can’t get bogged down but it punishes you the more you abuse it. Simple to retrofit on any hard surface too. 

 

It sounds good but they've tried it.

Slippery strips make the cars spin & that can cause a crash which brings out a safety car.

So they don't like it.

[PaulRhB]

1 minute ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

It sounds good but they've tried it.

Slippery strips make the cars spin & that can cause a crash which brings out a safety car.

So they don't like it.

Well an electronic strip in the white line then that if a sensor on the car centreline goes over it makes a short 5-10 second 10% reduction in power? Put some random ones around the corners that just report in to check no shielding is in use. 

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

How can stewards determine the difference though? Many would claim Hamilton deliberately drove into Verstappen at Silverstone, even to the extent of making the accusation of attempted murder.

Did Verstappen deliberately out-brake himself in an attempt to run Hamilton off the track at Brazil last year?

If there had been an automatic ban for intent, Verstappen would have had a different story for their collision on Sunday, claiming his innocence.

Perez has recently been accused of a deliberate crash in qualy at Monaco this year. Could Leclerc have done it deliberately last year? I don't think either were, but they both screwed up qualy laps for others & Leclerc's incident even secured his pole.

Did Rosberg deliberately take the exit road at Monaco in 2014? There was no way to prove it, but many suspect it was intentional.

Piquet's crash in Singapore '08 was not under suspicion until he confessed the following year.

 

If drivers make mistakes, then getting some form of penalty sorts out the best from the rest. If we make a mistake at work, then it costs us extra doesn't it? In cricket, if a bowler makes a mistake, they often get hit to the boundary. A batter would often be out. Why should drivers get away with things just because there is no intent?

 

I'm certainly not saying a driver shouldn't be penalised for an accidental collision - although quite often the collision damage can be sufficient penalty in itself (if a driver runs into the back of another driver and breaks his front wing and needs to pit for a replacement, but the driver in front can carry on, I think no further penalty is necessary). However in some instances the footage or telemetry shows that the driver steered into the other car (Schumacher v Villeneuve or Vettel v Hamilton at Baku), and in those cases the strongest possible action should be taken.

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Track limits are a problem at certain corners, but you would need to be consistent everywhere, which is what the stewards have been since Miami.

 

 

I've never seen any track limit penalties imposed by stewards at Monaco........

 

So maybe there is some merit in having concrete walls on certain corners?

 

🤔

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by newbryford

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

It sounds good but they've tried it.

Slippery strips make the cars spin & that can cause a crash which brings out a safety car.

So they don't like it.

It was pretty much what it was before we got tarmac runoff. Grass is a slippery surface. From the racing point of view IMO it's better; it penalises mistakes so how close a driver wants to push to the edge is part of their decision, all really within the rules and the spirit, but the downside is it's more likely to be penalised with an accident. Lack of physical issues for running wide is really there so that mistakes are less likely to result in someone getting hurt.

[Hobby]

11 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

How can stewards determine the difference though?

 

Many would claim Hamilton deliberately drove into Verstappen at Silverstone, even to the extent of making the accusation of attempted murder.

 

They can, and do, by looking at the telemetry information the teams use to check what the car's doing, that tells them what the driver was doing, and it also told them Max was behaving badly and Lewis's wasn't as bad in the two incidents... Think what that Sky reporter did a few pages ago but with even more information than he had about what Max was doing in the car.

 

As for the second sentence, you know as well as the rest of us that that rumour was spread by that equally nasty piece of work Horner, to try and make Hamilton's penalty as bad as possible, conveniently ignoring that his pet driver has done a lot worse than that and often got away with it!

[Hroth]

Half the problem is that Whinger Horner makes things worse with the inflammatory language he uses.  Perhaps the FIA should have insisted that Horner be fitted with handcuffs and a ball gag every Grand Prix weekend!

 

If nothing else, it would make him look extremely silly....

 

[PeterStiles]

7 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Horner be fitted with handcuffs and a ball gag every Grand Prix weekend!

no, that's only when he gets home from the race.

 

[RedgateModels]

Stolen from Facebook, max ready for Abu Dhabi ….

 

[Hroth]

46 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Stolen from Facebook, max ready for Abu Dhabi ….

 

 

In his mind, he's still in go-carts.

 

No one can get hurt...

 

[didcot]

Schumacher out and Hulkenburg in at Hass.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-schumacher-and-haas-to-part-ways-at-the-end-of-2022.dmJ5UUmDDUL2v1mPVtUhs.html

 

Not a surprise as Schumacher Jr has been underwhelming. 

[Pete the Elaner]

25 minutes ago, didcot said:

Schumacher out and Hulkenburg in at Hass.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-schumacher-and-haas-to-part-ways-at-the-end-of-2022.dmJ5UUmDDUL2v1mPVtUhs.html

 

Not a surprise as Schumacher Jr has been underwhelming. 

 

I'm not surprised they've dropped Schumacher. I agree that he has been underwhelming.

I am surprised they've replaced him with Hulkenberg though. Like K-Mag, he has always been a good, solid driver but not outstanding & at this stage of his career, that is not likely to change.

I thought they would have preferred to take a punt on a younger driver trying to break through from a lower formula.

[LNERandBR]

They are likely looking for a consistent driver that can bring in the points. Experience can also help them develop the car further.

 

Mick was their punt on a young driver and it's not worked out. Not suprised they've gone for an older driver.

[LNERandBR]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63664552

 

BBC now reporting that Crashtappen isn't happy with the reaction to the Team Orders row.

 

To be honest people going on about his family is a bit OTT. There's no need for that.

 

However it's clear he has no remorse and feels he's done no wrong. RedBull are in backtrack mode saying there were 'errors'. 

[woodenhead]

There are some fairly interesting stories circulating on Social Media.

 

The incident at Monaco is one of them, as is another story related to Monaco that may be untrue.  Then there are the stories about his father and these as based in fact but may be being spun up into a whirlwind.  Finally the stories about what the real hierarchy of power is within Red Bull.

 

It's Social Media, plenty of lies abound so it's difficult to know what is the truth.  But what we do know is that this is the life of a racing driver, it's hard, there are no real loyalties and all the teams have inter driver relation problems at some time or another.  What would be the point of racing if you were happy playing second fiddle.

[LNERandBR]

Thing is he's not playing second fiddle is he. He's won the championship and it wasn't like he was in a podium position. Effectively he had nothing to loose in letting Checo though.

 

The team want a one two in the drivers championship. It's only Checo who needs the points to do that.

 

Maybe Max will let Checo though this weekend if asked. However I have a feeling the call to do so won't come now.

[RedgateModels]

Max does not care about the team, when he says team he means him and his entourage. Clearly no matter what the situation he will not cede to his number two driver......

[Hobby]

33 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

  What would be the point of racing if you were happy playing second fiddle.

 

You could ask Bottas?! ;)

[RedgateModels]

6 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

You could ask Bottas?! ;)

 

or Lewis during the first part of this season where he has said that he concentrated on helping develop the car and let his "#2" run with more conventional settings. 

 

I'm convinced he would not have passed GR even if he could have in Brazil.

Edited November 17, 2022 by RedgateModels

[didcot]

I'll have to get my violin out at this rate!

Edited November 17, 2022 by didcot

[rob D2]

Max just confirmed to me he is a bit of a b##end. 
It’s a serous error of judgment I feel, if he didn’t realise everyone would detest him after this unnecessary move 

Edited November 17, 2022 by rob D2

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

What would be the point of racing if you were happy playing second fiddle.

 

There have been a lot in that situation:

D Hill

Berger

Patrese

Irvine

Barrichello

Massa

Kovalleinen

Bottas

Gasly

Albon

Perez

 

None of these were signed with any real intent of leading a front running team & they knew it. Their alternative was to drive for a midfield or back team with little chance to win more than 1 race in their entire career. Perez was even out of a contract before RB picked him up, so his choice was as a No2 or find another formula.

So given the choice of driving for something like a Williams & score a point on a good day or get consistently in the top 5 & maybe fight for a couple of wins a season when your team-mate has a bad day, what would you choose?

 

There are 3 interesting entries on that list: Hill was signed as a No2 to Prost then stayed No2 to Senna. He inherited No1 after Senna's fatal accident, then nearly won the WC that year before succeeding 2 years later.

Irvine was Schumacher's No2 until his crash in Silverstone put him out for a few races, then a switch of support nearly made him WC.

Massa was signed as Schumacher's No2, the team brought in Raikkonen as their new No1. After winning in 07, he made a poor start to 08 & support was switched to Massa. I have not looked in detail at the 08 season, but if Massa was given the help of team orders early on, he may have finished ahead.

 

So maybe there is some value in being a No2 in a leading team after all?