Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Delta_Who]

Always one who tries to yell "checkmate". 

Lets clarify. At no point did I go "OMG THIS IS THE FINAL PRODUCT? OUTRAGEOUS Hornby. I WANT MY REFUND." Call it constructive critique if you must. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Delta_Who

[Edge]

3 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

Looking back at the talk about TRS trains smoke/Bournemouth West smoke copyright claims : https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/84/93/74/81e0c775e926b6/GB2578664B.pdf

 

Thing is, I don't know if he's specifically the first to use it? People citing Marklin...and I'm pretty sure some basic childrens toy trains from China do use this. So is this even valid? I dunno... I'm not a copyright expert.

 

I just hope Hornby produce a preserved example with their smoke unit effect. Looked pretty decent on the Scotsman... albeit the intensity could have been better. No doubt also tied to TTS (so cylinder sounds/chuff will be slightly off)

 

 

it’s relatively easy to avoid patent infringement by altering aspects of the design. You can make use of the same principles using different electronics or mechanics and the can arrive at a basically similar result. Even if they want to use the technology directly, it’s perfectly possible that a sensible royalty agreement has been worked out for use of the patent, even if TRS is supplying Rapido directly now.

 

as this smoke unit has been in the public domain for about a year now and we’ve not had a hint of any patent infringement I personally think the implication that Hornby is being underhanded is a bit much. In a world as small as the model train one, it would have gotten out if there were legal proceedings.

 

(no implication of underhanded Hornby acts  in the quoted post btw, it was just the most recent post that I could find mentioning it) 

[Hilux5972]

2 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

Always one who tries to yell "checkmate". 

Lets clarify. At no point did I go "OMG THIS IS THE FINAL PRODUCT? OUTRAGEOUS Hornby. I WANT MY REFUND." Call it constructive critique if you must. 

No but you did say “no doubt also tied to TTS”

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

No but you did say “no doubt also tied to TTS”

Which is entirely logical, Hornby's diversification into the new scale cannot be achieved without having  some impact on current and future OO developments.

 

Resources (whether monetary or human) cannot be employed in two places at once and it is the nature of business that some items will be prioritised over others.

 

It is clearly impossible for anyone outside Hornby to attribute slow progress on any specific model to that,  but it is clear that the "2022" in the title of this thread has effectively become "2023, maybe".

 

It is equally possible that Hornby were just planting a "keep off the grass" sign to deter A.N. Other from producing a model which, given the current nature of OO competition, may or may not be effective.   

 

John

 

 

[maico]

On 18/07/2022 at 08:11, Johan DC said:

TRS are not the first, and Märklin uses this already for some years in diesels. 

But they are amazing, now with the cylinders as well!

 

Which diesels? The gauge 1 V320 uses smoke fluid presumably oil based not a water mist system

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by maico

[Johan DC]

1 hour ago, maico said:

 

Which diesels? The gauge 1 V320 uses smoke fluid presumably oil based not a water mist system

 

The BR233 Tiger in HO is one of them. No idea how many others. 

[maico]

 

On 07/12/2022 at 16:27, Johan DC said:

The BR233 Tiger in HO is one of them. No idea how many others. 

 

Found it, Marklin call it cold steam which uses distilled water in a Piezo atomizer unit

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by maico

[adb968008]

You can buy the atomisers on ebay, indeed bought a few to have a play about 18 months ago, less than £5 and a great science entertainment for kids.

 

 

 

Its a very simple pcb, powered by usb ( which you can cut off and move to DC).

 

The atomiser works best on a damp sponge ( it doesnt need a water tank)… its a speaker with a microsized hole in it, reverberating on the sponge sprays out atomised water vapour that looks like smoke.

 

 

in my use case I mounted it in a Lima deltic. Drilled the exhaust holes, positioned it underneath, turned up the voltage and it begins.

 

However its largely uncontrolled, thats where the magic is and my guess where the technology (and IP starts to differ ).

Reading the TRS patent, it relies on a moving cylinder taking airflow. The cylinder has holes to draw in, and presumably atomise out, thus giving control of the beat.

 

Hornby reps at Warley indicated theres uses a hall sensor on the wheels, and presumably (i’m guessing) momentarily adjusts the power supply on/off to make the beat.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by adb968008

[Delta_Who]

Sadly I'm not electronically minded to have a go at doing this myself :D 
I did get curious a few months ago on how small the atomisers could go. If it were possible to get something e-cigarette sized... could have a go fitting in a teeny 0-4-0.

[SteamingWales]

Just having a mooch about the Hornby website and what I assume are the 3D livery renders have appeared. 

 

They look pretty good to my eye, though I'm not expert. Hopefully the lamps are removable though or it looks like everyone will be running Royal Trains constantly

 

Delivery is slated for WINTER 2024-25!!!!!

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-stanier-5mt-black-5-4-6-0-45157-glasgow-highlander-era-5-r30226?

[Delta_Who]

*Grabs popcorn*

[Delta_Who]

In seriousness, I'm hoping that is just a typo. We've already seen 3D print samples and the latest release window was easter-summer 2023

[Dunsignalling]

28 minutes ago, Delta_Who said:

In seriousness, I'm hoping that is just a typo. We've already seen 3D print samples and the latest release window was easter-summer 2023

 

I've seen a reference somewhere on here (Warley thread possibly?) to someone having been informed by a Hornby staff member that the Caprotti model is now scheduled for 4Q.2023 release. 

 

I therefore think it probably should read "Winter 2023-2024".

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[SteamingWales]

1 hour ago, Delta_Who said:

In seriousness, I'm hoping that is just a typo

 

If it is a typo it is a typo on Hornby's behalf. I am simply pulling that info from the Hornby site and page that is linked

 

What's the current time from EP to hitting shelves these days? The only thing I'm tracking is the Accurascale Manor which has been about 24 months (announced Feb 2021 due ~March 2023) but I guess this isn't necessarily representative given it is their first kettle so may take a little longer than Hornby?

 

Also worth considering what is happening with covid in China ATM though that will have sorted itself when these reach production

[Bulleidboy100]

Hornby stated sometime ago "inception to shop shelf approximately three years" - sounds about right,

[spamcan61]

If it's a typo it's a consistent one, most of the TT:120 locos ate now showing the 2024-2025 delivery date.

[Bulleidboy100]

Nobody has mentioned the SR Green Urie price at £720.00 - due Spring 2023 .Hornby CRTST1 

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/cr-tst-1-crtst1

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bulleidboy100
amendment

[Pre Grouping fan]

4 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

Just having a mooch about the Hornby website and what I assume are the 3D livery renders have appeared. 

 

They look pretty good to my eye, though I'm not expert. Hopefully the lamps are removable though or it looks like everyone will be running Royal Trains constantly

 

Delivery is slated for WINTER 2024-25!!!!!

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-stanier-5mt-black-5-4-6-0-45157-glasgow-highlander-era-5-r30226?

 

Seems a mistake as I'm seeing 2 renders for the coronation stock on the same page.

 

 

[spamcan61]

25 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

Seems a mistake as I'm seeing 2 renders for the coronation stock on the same page.

 

 

Every TT:120 loco I've checked and OO new toolings e.g.Flirt are now showing winter 2024-2025 delivery 

[E100]

Winter 2024-25 is unbelievable. Surely not. It would make a complete mockery of the summer 2022 timeframe. It also makes me very skeptical of anything announced in January. 

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Every TT:120 loco I've checked and OO new toolings e.g.Flirt are now showing winter 2024-2025 delivery 

Its either a mistake, or an omen.

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, E100 said:

Winter 2024-25 is unbelievable. Surely not. It would make a complete mockery of the summer 2022 timeframe. It also makes me very skeptical of anything announced in January. 

 

Like we weren't all preparing to be? 😇😟🙃

 

Even assuming that 2024-25 is an error, the Black Fives are going to be a whole year late. Of course, it may be that they've been held back deliberately to keep another item (or, more likely, scale) on or near schedule. 

 

However, Hornby would be wise not to quote over-optimistic delivery dates for whatever is in the 2023 programme. They wouldn't be the first manufacturer to attract mocking suggestions that the wrong year has been printed on the cover of their catalogue. 

 

John

Edited December 23, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Johan DC]

11 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

Nobody has mentioned the SR Green Urie price at £720.00 - due Spring 2023 .Hornby CRTST1 

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/cr-tst-1-crtst1

CR: Chiltern Railways Turbostar of course! 😁

[Black 5 Bear]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Its either a mistake, or an omen.

That is until another company decide to produce a BF, in which case they'd be with us in the shops before Summer!

[Legend]

I think it’s as simple as someone’s got Winter 23/24 mixed up with 24/25 , as it’s appearing on a few models .Otherwise  Hornby won’t have much new to sell in 23 , which will not be good for their financials .