Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Sjcm]

1 minute ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Bought the very lovely Hornby P2 as no 2003 'Lord President', and had it all in pieces after test running was complete, decoder now in Loco, tender wiper pick ups removed, etc.. It's way cheaper than a self build model would be. Does that answer the question? (Overall I rate it very good.)

 

The main motivation was assessing the mechanism for a future project acquisition. Gresley would so have advanced to a 4-8-4 had he been spared...

But you are not the norm. Plenty of people willing and capable to service and repair a rtr model. A complete rebuild with new pickups? less likely.

[zr2498]

50 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Seems to be correct according to @zr2498's photos above as this is of course a model of the loco in preserved condition.  Rods and smokebox door will probably look like 5200 on the actual model.

 

Just checked video footage, and this is the best snap shot view I currently have. Certainly shiny (ish) rods and valve gear, but more of a polished metal than silver paint appearance. Nothing a little weathering couldn't sort out.

 

 

As for the front:

 

 

Hopefully the final rendition by Hornby will better match the preserved 5428.

But I doubt the lights will be replicated. This Black 5 is fitted out for main line working as well as the preserved NYMR.

 

 

[adb968008]

57 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

Yeah, it was more an observation on how everyone seems reluctant to delve deeper with the problems and why? I don't subscribe to Sam's trains or watch a lot of his stuff, but I do know he's not adverse to taking apart new models for major surgery like many youtubers. Yet this time he's not touched it, even to look at the mechanism. Like wise the other guy posted on here who again has tried to fix new models before. As someone who would return a new faulty loco out of principle, I wonder if the people who would usually have a dabble, have gone "nope, not touching a 230 pound loco under warranty"

I love ripping my locos apart, but only if they are in one piece when I start.

 

Replacing that coupling may require soldering of small gauge wires, or a specialist crimping tool… Do you really want to be bothered doing that when its under warranty, knowing your dismantling the chassis and tender chassis to do it. (Tbh I would probably replace the coupling entirely and fit a jst connector and shorter coupling bar).

 

I have 3 realtrack pacers awaiting couplings to be soldered, but I paid £75 each for them, not £230, because they were faulty, they are a pig of a model ive seen in a while, but at £75 i’ll risk it… i’d take a broken black 5 for £75 too and have a go, but not at £200.

 

 

 

 

[maico]

3 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

According to the blurb for the just announced Rails Ltd edition of 5428 as preserved the model has a flywheel. Anybody taken the loco body off yet and able to confirm? https://railsofsheffield.com/search?q=R30387 black 5&_kx=nTbDlYO2tIJF0g9_RHJfhaYIH4IEvjBwUEE9OGmQgKbqnSFePN1n7xZw98DdvMB7.RXkVMS&utm_campaign=Exclusive Railway Icons Hornby Black 5 Announcement&utm_id=01HWCTPR051J0D68J9Z228C817&utm_medium=campaign&utm_source=Klaviyo

 

Doesn't look like it....

[GrumpyPenguin]

3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Yes, they can in their RTR HO product, which is made to a long time well developed standard, with an extensive range of toytrainium input and performs impressively. And it is so marvellous that 'modellers that can' adopt P87 to get rid of the toytrainium and have true scale models, which  - surprise! - won't get around the minimum radius HO set track curves.

Current European HO has moved well away from Pizza Cutter Flanges & Steam Roller Treads.

 

One mans compromise is another mans nighmare - I always chuckle a little about OO modellers complaining about such things as wheel detail & axle spacing (somerimes as little as .5mm) when the wheels are too close together anyway !

 

Sometimes, we seem to forget that there is no such thing as a 100% perfect model railway - there will be compromises somewhere.

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Just checked video footage, and this is the best snap shot view I currently have. Certainly shiny (ish) rods and valve gear, but more of a polished metal than silver paint appearance. Nothing a little weathering couldn't sort out.

 

I confidently expect that the motion on Eric Treacy will be the usual bright nickel silver plating.  It doesn't represent steel that well, but it will be no worse on this model than on any of the previous ones.

 

[daltonparva]

I've just taken the plunge, £172.49 plus latest Coronation Queen Mary £181.49, plus £5.99 postage. I'm now in shock, going for a lie down. I may be some time, but if no-one hears from me by Monday please alert the authorities.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Sam's done another review of the Black Five, with a replacement. Check it out:   (2) Let's Try Again | Hornby's New Black 5 Take 2 | Unboxing & Re-Review - YouTube

Edited April 27 by Peter Kazmierczak

[Sjcm]

just seen it. Same problems and its fallen apart 😂

[zr2498]

20 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

just seen it. Same problems and its fallen apart 😂

Same here. Big mistake! He should be sending that one back as well.

It might be too late to correct the next models, but surely Hornby needs to put a halt on factory production until some redesign is done, and build quality is improved.

Do Hornby actually sample test a number of production models? I would say these all should be on recall, or heavily discounted as not fit for purpose.

 

[Sjcm]

well........that tender connection.  he got it working with contact spray but you have to wonder how long that is going to last. I suppose the crank pin falling out is about par for the course😂

[spamcan61]

19 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Same here. Big mistake! He should be sending that one back as well.

It might be too late to correct the next models, but surely Hornby needs to put a halt on factory production until some redesign is done, and build quality is improved.

Do Hornby actually sample test a number of production models? I would say these all should be on recall, or heavily discounted as not fit for purpose.

 

It does make you wonder if they test a sample once they're in Margate (OK it's really too late then, but there's no way a third party manufacturer is going to stop the line while they test a few) or they rely on the majority of the batch remaining in the box / on a shelf for evermore.

[GrumpyPenguin]

24 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

It does make you wonder if they test a sample once they're in Margate (OK it's really too late then, but there's no way a third party manufacturer is going to stop the line while they test a few) or they rely on the majority of the batch remaining in the box / on a shelf for evermore.

Unfortunatly, it's the retailer that is ultimatly responsible to sort things out - maybe it's time that the "manufacture" shared the responsibility to sort out defective goods.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

It does make you wonder if they test a sample once they're in Margate (OK it's really too late then, but there's no way a third party manufacturer is going to stop the line while they test a few) or they rely on the majority of the batch remaining in the box / on a shelf for evermore.

The issue of Hornby’s QC is almost as old as time itself. The question is….how widespread is the malfunction of the tender to loco  ?  If Sam has suffered two such failures and others have been similarly affected,then it’s a red flag . 

[adb968008]

On 26/04/2024 at 19:18, ColinB said:

Even with the gold plating they are only good for between 10 to 20 connects/disconnects. We used to have racks of test instrumentation with the circuit boards with these edge connectors.

Surely an EP model would have been on / off that Hornby test track, connected and disconnected enough times to test that and ID it as a weakness ?

 

some EPs ive seen have been through a hedge backwards, but thats part of the life of an EP is to find these things.

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by adb968008

[Ian Hargrave]

16 hours ago, daltonparva said:

I've just taken the plunge, £172.49 plus latest Coronation Queen Mary £181.49, plus £5.99 postage. I'm now in shock, going for a lie down. I may be some time, but if no-one hears from me by Monday please alert the authorities.

I notice the price paid at retail point,which is a good deal more than the usual new release discount. Is that indicative of an unease concerning this model  ?  It has been on the market for approximately 2 weeks and yet as far as I could ascertain,none were available for purchase from retailers at the NEC yesterday.The only example was on demo at Hornby’s stand.

[Sjcm]

27 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Surely an EP model would have been on / off that Hornby test track, connected and disconnected enough times to test that and ID it as a weakness ?

 

some EPs ive seen have been through a hedge backwards, but thats part of the life of an EP is to find these things.

 

 

 

Apart from the colour, they remind me of the contacts you used to get on 90's game console cartridges which could oxidise and stop working over time. of course if they are the same, then the presumably hidden smaller traces that join up to the visible contact bars could be the real problem  as you can't reach them to clean them.

Edited April 28 by Sjcm

[Butler Henderson]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Surely an EP model would have been on / off that Hornby test track, connected and disconnected enough times to test that and ID it as a weakness ?

 

some EPs ive seen have been through a hedge backwards, but thats part of the life of an EP is to find these things.

 

 

 

Hornsby EP testing is plainly rubbish as its not the first time . Rocket plainly has a  lashed up prototype arrangement that should never made it to production and seemingly that issue has been recreated with these. Fine if you want one for the dispaly case but if its going to get handled save your £s and spend them on something more reliable than this latest load of rubbish in a red box,. They seem to trading on their name whilst issuing absolute tat tarted up to look nice.

Edited April 28 by Butler Henderson

[Legend]

16 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Sam's done another review of the Black Five, with a replacement. Check it out:   (2) Let's Try Again | Hornby's New Black 5 Take 2 | Unboxing & Re-Review - YouTube

I thought another pretty decent review even if the subject didn’t come out well .

 

So again, slightly warped running plate 

Crank pin falling out 

Similar issue on tender-loco pick up but this time resolved using contact cleaner ( is that a permanent fix?) 

 

You step back and then consider this is a £204 model . Really! 

[jjb1970]

Ordinarily a manufacturer should have a good awareness of delivered quality from warranty return figures, however in the case of Hornby model trains that figure may be seriously distorted by a the amount of models sold to collectors who don't run models or even modellers with plans for a layout some day. Have a look on well known auction sites for the number of locomotives for sale in mint boxed unused condition.

[jjb1970]

14 hours ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Unfortunatly, it's the retailer that is ultimatly responsible to sort things out - maybe it's time that the "manufacture" shared the responsibility to sort out defective goods.

 

From a customer perspective UK law making the retailer responsible is excellent, it makes life much simpler and living in a country where warranty responsibility is with the manufacturer or local distributor (as applicable) I'd not recommend going that way.

[Black 5 Bear]

14 minutes ago, Legend said:

I thought another pretty decent review even if the subject didn’t come out well .

 

So again, slightly warped running plate 

Crank pin falling out 

Similar issue on tender-loco pick up but this time resolved using contact cleaner ( is that a permanent fix?) 

 

You step back and then consider this is a £204 model . Really! 

What's the betting we'll seeing improvements on the highlighted concerns/issues  on both the steam/sound and Rails variants due for release later in the year?

 

 

Edited April 28 by Black 5 Bear

[Ian Hargrave]

5 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

What's the betting we'll seeing improvements on the highlighted concerns/issues  on both the steam/sound and Rails variants due for release later in the year?

 

 

That would be the ideal scenario.However,as I have already posted elsewhere,my conversation with Hornby at the NEC yesterday leads me to believe that they appear to be in the hands of their factory…at least as far as the stuck on lights are concerned.So I’m not holding my breath as far as my pre ordered Caprotti is concerned. 
 

I saw it run yesterday and for me personally it fails as the “Ultimate Black 5” on the counts of both those silly fixed lights and the yawning gap between loco and tender 

[smr248]

3 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

That would be the ideal scenario.However,as I have already posted elsewhere,my conversation with Hornby at the NEC yesterday leads me to believe that they appear to be in the hands of their factory…at least as far as the stuck on lights are concerned.So I’m not holding my breath as far as my pre ordered Caprotti is concerned. 
 

I saw it run yesterday and for me personally it fails as the “Ultimate Black 5” on the counts of both those silly fixed lights and the yawning gap between loco and tender 

I agree, those lights look ridiculous.

I'm wondering how the steam unit works?  I assume the principle is  similar to an ultrasonic humidifier?  I saw someone with his nose almost touching the chimney - I hope he hasn't got a dose of Legionaires disease today...

[Butler Henderson]

43 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

What's the betting we'll seeing improvements on the highlighted concerns/issues  on both the steam/sound and Rails variants due for release later in the year?

 

 

Based on Rocket absolutely no chance.