Citadel's Workbench - Carlisle in late Victorian times

[Citadel]

Aargh, you found me out.  I’ll claim it was a deliberate mistake and there was a prize for the first person to spot it.  When I took the photo wanted to catch the light from the window so placed them on the card upside down.  Then when formatting the picture got a bit over enthusiastic with the rotate/flip buttons(!)

 

Conniptions - my new word for the day 🙂

Edited March 20, 2023 by Citadel

[Citadel]

4 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

A couple of holes through the vent locations on the sides makes it easier to solder the the half etched vent in place  from the back.

Thanks Jol, really good point, will do in future.  Have to admit with the LNWR carriages have got into the habit of spraying them plum and lining them off the carriage (two side tape on a piece of card) as find I get cleaner edges.  As a result resort to superglue (fitting them at same time as door handles etc.).  As you see though on the D162 that made a bit for freedom from my desk one has fallen off so solder would have been better (and even with the superglue the holes would still have made the joint stronger).

 

With the Midland livery suspect I really should be soldering them in place and painting all in the one pass - will bear this in mind next time.

[Buhar]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I've just been having the most awful conniptions but I think it's all right and I'm recovering...

 

I am sorry, Stephen.  I hope it's next on the vaccine development list.

 

Alan

[Citadel]

Bit of a 42' frenzy over recent days.  D159 Lavatory Composite ready for interior detailing.  That's six lavatory windows to paint.... urgh.   

 

 

At least the D293 Luggage Third doesn't have any 🙂

 

 

Also got a couple more D162 composites on the go - just can't get enough of the half compartments at each end:

 

 

 

 

Now onto glazing, seats, roofs etc. etc. - beginning to realise that building coaches in quite time consuming and maybe batch building 4 at one time is maybe a step too far(!)  You can never have enough LNWR 42' carriages though....

Edited March 24, 2023 by Citadel

[Chas Levin]

On 24/03/2023 at 18:05, Citadel said:

You can never have enough LNWR 42' carriages though....

Perhaps, or perhaps not Mike, but if anyone's going to be in position to know whether or not you actually can have too many, it'll be you! 😀

[Citadel]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Perhaps, or perhaps not Mike, but if anyone's going to be in position to know whether or not you actually can have too many, it'll be you! 😀

 

They definitely have a certain appeal.  Anyway, sense distraction is imminent given my new acquisition.  Have had Lacy & Dow Vol 1 for a while but Vol 2 always seemed to be priced out of my reach - finally tracked down an affordable copy.  Now realise it's almost twice as thick as Vol 1 hence the higher price now makes more sense.  The chapters on MSJS and non passenger stock were the main reasons I was on the lookout for a copy.

 

 

Spent a couple of hours today pushing on with the 54' Clerestory Composite

 

 

It's beginning to have quite an imposing presence which I quite like:

 

 

OK, things just plonked on top of each other for effect but sense the clerestory was just plonked on top in real life too....  Really looking forward to a bit of Crimson Lake.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Citadel

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Citadel said:

It's beginning to have quite an imposing presence which I quite like:

 

 

OK, things just plonked on top of each other for effect but sense the clerestory was just plonked on top in real life too....  Really looking forward to a bit of Crimson Lake.

 

It really is looking magnificent. These carriages must have appeared truly enormous to someone in 1875, used to 4-wheelers!

[Craigw]

The New South Wales Government Railways had 8 coaches built by Ashbury that were delivered in 1879. 54' long with a Clerestory, I think you can see where this is heading! I will see if I can find a photo of one of the local ones that can be reproduced. Fitted with lavatories from the late 1890s, the survived in service until 1938.

 

If you ever do this as a kit, put me down for one!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Coal Tank]

3 hours ago, Citadel said:

 

They definitely have a certain appeal.  Anyway, sense distraction is imminent given my new acquisition.  Have had Lacy & Dow Vol 1 for a while but Vol 2 always seemed to be priced out of my reach - finally tracked down an affordable copy.  Now realise it's almost twice as thick as Vol 1 hence the higher price now makes more sense.  The chapters on MSJS and non passenger stock were the main reasons I was on the lookout for a copy.

 

 

Spent a couple of hours today pushing on with the 54' Clerestory Composite

 

 

It's beginning to have quite an imposing presence which I quite like:

 

 

OK, things just plonked on top of each other for effect but sense the clerestory was just plonked on top in real life too....  Really looking forward to a bit of Crimson Lake.

Im Looking forward to one of these

[Citadel]

Inspired by Lacy & Dow Vol 2 felt it was time to dip my toe into Midland NPCS.  Thought if I did a batch build could combine the undercoating / spraying with the 54' Clerestory.  All three from Wizard Models - they use an internal carcass with etched overlays so a bit different to the LRM kits I've got used to.  Firstly the D420 Parcels Van

 

 

Then the D418 Fruit & Milk Van.  Don't know what it is with louvres and etched kits but they always get me going....

 

 

On the LNWR version I had to put black card c. 1mm behind the louvres as you couldn't see right through the van - did the Midland share the same design?.  Also colour of the louvres?

 

Then finally the D529 brake:

 

 

Only one pair of windows between them - what isn't there to like about this.  Now, where's that tin of Crimson Lake....

[Buhar]

There's some serious lining out looming ahead, good luck.

 

Alan

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Citadel said:

On the LNWR version I had to put black card c. 1mm behind the louvres as you couldn't see right through the van - did the Midland share the same design?.  Also colour of the louvres?

 

Yes, the louvres were formed of slats at 45 degrees, so there would have been no line-of-sight through them, seen sideways on. They were painted body colour, i.e. red.

[Chas Levin]

On 02/04/2023 at 22:45, Citadel said:

...Don't know what it is with louvres and etched kits but they always get me going....

 

Yes, same here. I think it's the apparent 3D aspect, the way they stand out as a feature on otherwise flat surfaces. Plus the sense of being able to see in, where all the mysterious and exciting parcels must be, but not very clearly: a bit like a bride's veil... 😉

 

On 02/04/2023 at 22:45, Citadel said:

Only one pair of windows between them - what isn't there to like about this...

 

I love building NPCS for various reasons and while I do actually like installing glazing, the relative lack of it on parcels stock certainly does speed up the build, doesn't it?

 

You'll have a very nice little rake there, with beautifully executed and uniform turnunders on all three!

Edited April 4, 2023 by Chas Levin

[Citadel]

On 04/04/2023 at 09:02, Chas Levin said:

You'll have a very nice little rake there, with beautifully executed and uniform turnunders on all three!

 

And a somewhat unintentional tumblehome above the waistline as a result of trying to get all the hinges lined up on the half etched outer overlays....   Never mind, very subtle and shouldn't be noticeable once painted.  

 

Last night’s project was lavatory windows, I seemed to need lots.  The biggest culprit was the D159 lavatory composite:

 

 

Plonked a roof in place as the darkness inside accentuates the design (you'll notice it's not the right roof - maybe I was just demonstrating that my plasticard roof forming was getting better, nothing glued down yet).

 

Folks have been complementary about the windows (though still yearn after having a go at getting some laser etched as per @Portchullin Tatty's suggestion).  Mine are quite 'impressionistic', actually think this is somewhat appealing to the eye as the design on the window is quite subtle in normal daylight.

 

I start by making a template, either from spare windows on the etch (or with forethought could do this before commencing the kit):

 

 

Use 0.5mm clear sheet, used to get this from Eileen's, the benefit is that it has a two side peel off protective layer which reduces the risk of fingerprints / scratches from the workbench.  Remove one of the films (this will be the outside of the finished window) and roughen with 240 grit sandpaper.  Use light oscillating motion, trying to get the clear material to go opaque but without any obvious direction to the scratches.

 

 

Then use the templates to get the window outline and scrawk guidelines with my Olfa cutter.  For the design I use gloss acrylic varnish and a small brush, any small mistakes can be rectified by scratching away with the tip of a scalpel blade once the varinsh is dry.  Finally run some diluted varnish down the score lines to create the border and add some random embellishments to the corners.  What I like about doing this on the outside is that you get much greater contrast in the finished window and and blobby bits of gloss varnish take on quite a jewel like appearance (so basically like the etched/cut glass).

 

The scorelines are useful when centering the window in the aperture.  Finally fit to the carriage and remove the inner protective film.

 

One more question about lavatories, this time the arrangement of the vents.  Normally I go with the LRM instructions (think the cutout below was from the D162 kit) but reading L&NWR Non-Corridor Carriages by Millard and Tattersall there seems to be a full sized vent alongside the lavatory gaslight (as opposed to a smaller one behind it).  The photo of the D159 composite on P17 of the book seems to corroborate this.

 

 

Small detail and not too stressed about it but any comments?

Edited April 6, 2023 by Citadel

[Mikkel]

I know nothing about LNWR vents, but thanks for the decorative lavatory window guide. As a GWR modeller I may never get to use it, but it is such creative and well executed solution that it is a pleasure just to know of it, and to see the results.

[Citadel]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

 As a GWR modeller I may never get to use it, but it is such creative and well executed solution that it is a pleasure just to know of it, and to see the results.

 

Many thanks for that - in part it's your storytelling and 'clever and well executed solutions' that re-awakened my interest in the hobby.

 

Even if the GWR didn't go the extra mile with their lavatory windows for the sake of the residents am sure at some stage Farthing will gain a public house or similar...  

 

 

 

[Citadel]

D293 Luggage Third completed.  They were built in 1886 so used the later pattern radial underframe - do think this adds an extra layer of interest.  Need to tone that 'A' on the solebar down a little with some weathering powder.   The roof layout is symmetrical bar the grab handles at the end - wasn't concentrating when I glued it on...  There was a 50% chance, sod's law is that it's the wrong way round but relatively easy to rectify.  More haste less speed....

 

 

 

 

Right, on with the other three 🙂

[Citadel]

Thought I'd set myself a bit of a challenge this evening - as @Buhar quite rightly points out a fair bit of MR lining in the offing, wondered how long it might actually take.

 

Started on the parcels van body sprayed with Precision MR Lake (quite a matte finish to be honest):

 

 

 

For the first time used Upol Acid 8 Etch Primer, think might have been a bit cold as got a slightly blotchy finish on the first coat.  Comes highly recommended though so am sure I'll get to grips with it (and a bit of lining will make it look better.  Anyway took the blank canvas above, set the stop watch on my phone and let battle commence.  63 minutes later had this (OK, I've only lined one side 🙂)

 

 

 

Could have shaved off 5 minutes if I hadn't lined the ventilators - rookie error(!)  Got a bit carried away (was channelling LNWR lining I think), after all the Midland seems to line everything else (underframe, buffer beam etc. etc.)...  Now realise this is wrong but will be easy to rectify.  Usual technique, Rotring pen with yellow ink but then special guest appearance from a black 0.3mm Uni Pin Fineline marker pen.  Found this brilliant for the rounded corners, didn't supply too much ink so really controllable.  The badminton grip on the back of my ruler is getting really worn/dirty, need to replace....

 

 

Stephen, sorry I keep asking questions.  Are bolection mouldings round fixed lights brown whereas the droplight are crimson lake as per this photo of carriage 253 from the Butterley website?

 

https://www.midlandrailway-butterley.co.uk/museum_travel_by_train/

 

 

The carriages they have look stunning!  What craftsmanship from the person that painted them....

Edited April 8, 2023 by Citadel

[Mikkel]

Badminton grip, that's a good tip, thank you! 

 

A few queries, if you don't mind: Looking at the webpage for the Unipin fineline pen, I can only find four colours, not including yellow (https://uniballco.com/products/pin-fineliner-drawing-pens-03mm). Did you fill it with your own ink (the yellow bottle on the left, perhaps?).

 

The white bottle, what is that I wonder?

 

[Citadel]

I do like my badminton grip.  It’s grippy, thin, conformable (so squishes over details like hinges, ventilators etc) and protective of the underlying paint.  Just make sure ink on earlier lines is dry though as it does tend to pick this up and transfer to places where it’s not wanted.  If you leave a c. 1mm gap to the edge it also stops paint/ink etc. wicking under the ruler.

 

The white ink is sold by Rotring, the yellow is a Windsor & Newton calligraphy ink.  I mix the two roughly 50:50 (the contents of the other bottle).  The white ink is quite heavily filled so helps with opacity when applied to dark colours.  For the black I either use another Rotring but did find the Unipin really useful when touching up and doing the corners.

 

Worth emphasising that I’m not sure whether the Unipin would work directly on enamel/cellulose paint - suspect it might reticulate/bead.  The yellow ink works well in this respect, suspect something to do with the surfactants/filler in the white Rotring ink.  Unipin on top of Rotring is fine.

 

As mentioned before the ruling pen is the true king and those that yield it are the lining royalty.  I just find it all a bit daunting but definitely a Rubicon I need to cross at some point.  Followed @Chas Levin’s journey with interest which shows what you can achieve with dedication and perseverance.  
 

Looking through the various threads do sense that lining is a bit of a barrier to people expressing the marvellous Edwardian/Victorian liveries and do feel the technique above is a bit more accessible.  That said it has it’s limits, if you model a company where the lining is gold and chocolate things might get a bit more tricky 🤔

[Compound2632]

11 hours ago, Citadel said:

Are bolection mouldings round fixed lights brown whereas the droplight are crimson lake as per this photo of carriage 253 from the Butterley website?

 

Ask away!

 

I can find no evidence that droplights were anything other than crimson lake. Midland Style says nothing about droplights, which implies there was nothing different about them. But this is a question on which i want to take soundings...

 

1 hour ago, Citadel said:

I do like my badminton grip.  It’s grippy, thin, conformable (so squishes over details like hinges, ventilators etc) and protective of the underlying paint.  Just make sure ink on earlier lines is dry though as it does tend to pick this up and transfer to places where it’s not wanted.  If you leave a c. 1mm gap to the edge it also stops paint/ink etc. wicking under the ruler.

 

The white ink is sold by Rotring, the yellow is a Windsor & Newton calligraphy ink.  I mix the two roughly 50:50 (the contents of the other bottle).  The white ink is quite heavily filled so helps with opacity when applied to dark colours.  For the black I either use another Rotring but did find the Unipin really useful when touching up and doing the corners.

 

Worth emphasising that I’m not sure whether the Unipin would work directly on enamel/cellulose paint - suspect it might reticulate/bead.  The yellow ink works well in this respect, suspect something to do with the surfactants/filler in the white Rotring ink.  Unipin on top of Rotring is fine.

 

Thank you for this explanation. I have been trying to line out the self-same carriage. I've tried a Posca paint pen for the yellow/gold but this has not been very satisfactory. The paint does not adhere well - I think it may be water-based - and I get the beading you mention. (I can get a good even line on a neat plasticard or shiny card surface.) Consequently, the Rotring pen used for the black drags the yellow paint.

 

So I shall get the materials you are using. I had been in doubt about the opacity of the lighter-coloured Rotring inks so it's good to know that's not a problem.

 

( @Mikkel, my reading is that the fine unipin pen is used for the black lines.)

Edited April 8, 2023 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

The 6-wheel composite at the NRM has brown droplights but this seems to be an exception and, I think, an aberration.

 

The other exception is the Kirtley 4-wheeler at Butterley but that's in an interpretation of pre-Clayton / Kirtley livery.

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Compound2632
correction.

[Mikkel]

2 hours ago, Citadel said:

I do like my badminton grip.  It’s grippy, thin, conformable (so squishes over details like hinges, ventilators etc) and protective of the underlying paint.  Just make sure ink on earlier lines is dry though as it does tend to pick this up and transfer to places where it’s not wanted.  If you leave a c. 1mm gap to the edge it also stops paint/ink etc. wicking under the ruler.

 

The white ink is sold by Rotring, the yellow is a Windsor & Newton calligraphy ink.  I mix the two roughly 50:50 (the contents of the other bottle).  The white ink is quite heavily filled so helps with opacity when applied to dark colours.  For the black I either use another Rotring but did find the Unipin really useful when touching up and doing the corners.

 

Worth emphasising that I’m not sure whether the Unipin would work directly on enamel/cellulose paint - suspect it might reticulate/bead.  The yellow ink works well in this respect, suspect something to do with the surfactants/filler in the white Rotring ink.  Unipin on top of Rotring is fine.

 

As mentioned before the ruling pen is the true king and those that yield it are the lining royalty.  I just find it all a bit daunting but definitely a Rubicon I need to cross at some point.  Followed @Chas Levin’s journey with interest which shows what you can achieve with dedication and perseverance.  
 

Looking through the various threads do sense that lining is a bit of a barrier to people expressing the marvellous Edwardian/Victorian liveries and do feel the technique above is a bit more accessible.  That said it has it’s limits, if you model a company where the lining is gold and chocolate things might get a bit more tricky 🤔

 

Thanks very much, this is all very useful. The ink going under the ruler is a common challenge I think - certainly mine - so if the badminton grip helps there that's another advantage.

 

I might give the Rotring a go, once I calm down from my unsucessfull attempts with other methods 🙂

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

( @Mikkel, my reading is that the fine unipin pen is used for the black lines.)

 

Ah yes, thanks, I had misunderstood that.

 

[WFPettigrew]

13 hours ago, Citadel said:

63 minutes later had this (OK, I've only lined one side 

 

Wah??!?

 

Jeez... Amazing finish and even more amazing time!

 

[Compound2632]

23 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Jeez... Amazing finish and even more amazing time!

 

A combination of using effective tools and building up the right level of skill. He's pointing us in the direction of the former and demonstrating the achievability of the latter. There is hope for us all!