Highland Railway 'Jones Goods' 4-6-0 in 00

[woodenhead]

And the award for oddest first EP ever goes to

 

10 hours ago, AY Mod said:

We recently had chance to look over the 3D print which was run as a testbed to check the wheel and motion clearances and undoubtedly this will be a very attractive model for many, irrespective of where they model. Ignore the cracks in the drivers!

 

 

 

[No Decorum]

8 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And the award for oddest first EP ever goes to

 

 

Do you see what happens to the wheels when you omit one guard iron? 

[Jammy2305]

Well, this ticks a box I never imagined I'd see filled! Now, I think mine will have to be an 1890s version... (but 103 is very tempting also!)

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

It's a pity the're no Highland coaches in the Hattons generic range, and these engines would really have suited the LMS lined crimson lake livery.  I'll have to settle for HR green instead.  With a tablet catcher of course.

Maybe the watchword could be 'yet'?   In any case no doubt Hornby might do their current trick of jumping on someone else's band wagon and do some of their generics in what they think Highland livery looked like (I wonder if they could get the green right?).

[Michael Hodgson]

13 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

 

Also this might be a stupid question but is the central driver meant to be flangeless? Is this the case on the real locos too? 

 

Seems unlikely, but not as improbable as the other drivers  - or for that matter the front bogie off the road!

Strange choice of publicity shot for a RTR manufacturer, what seems to be a DJH kit without its handrails.

 

23 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

 

 

[ikks]

13 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Seeing as the RTR manufacturers are picking their way through my unbuilt kit pile, I confidently predict that the next Scottish locos to be announced will be the So'jer and Glen Douglas. They won't do CR 123 because that's the one I really want.

 

I'm modelling the 1960s so the preserved liveries are authentic for me. There's something strangely satisfying about sticking 25kv warning placards on a pre-grouping livery. 

CR 123 did rail tours double heading with 103 I think.......so just maybe!!

Still love a Spinner though!

Mike

 

[Jammy2305]

14 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

Also this might be a stupid question but is the central driver meant to be flangeless? Is this the case on the real locos too? 

 

I was always of the impression that they were built with flangeless centre drivers.

[Wheatley]

15 minutes ago, ikks said:

CR 123 did rail tours double heading with 103 I think.......so just maybe!!

Still love a Spinner though!

Mike

 

123 also double headed with Gordon Highlander on the very line I'm modelling, so kits for both have been in the cupboard for years. In theory 123 should be an easy build from the LRM kit - no valve gear or quartering to worry about and just the tender to source as the LRM kit has a different one. The plan for that is super detailed Tri-ang believe it or not ! Painting it will be fun, Gordon Highlander more so ...

[farren]

Now I’ve always had a soft spot for the Jones goods especially in that yellow, but a RTR model was not expected.
To buy or not to buy that be the question:
Whether 'tis nobler to buy Yellow jones to suffer The siding full and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to buy LMS black and be skint for the year. 

[Legend]

9 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

123 also double headed with Gordon Highlander on the very line I'm modelling, so kits for both have been in the cupboard for years. In theory 123 should be an easy build from the LRM kit - no valve gear or quartering to worry about and just the tender to source as the LRM kit has a different one. The plan for that is super detailed Tri-ang believe it or not ! Painting it will be fun, Gordon Highlander more so ...

I bet Simon Kohlers dusting off the mouldings even as you speak . Maybe it will follow the Dean single being brought out this year, just as it did back in the sixties . I know 123 was in the Race for the North but I’ve never understood peoples fascination with it . A Caley Dunalastair or Cardean would be much better instead . 

[ikks]

5 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

123 also double headed with Gordon Highlander on the very line I'm modelling, so kits for both have been in the cupboard for years. In theory 123 should be an easy build from the LRM kit - no valve gear or quartering to worry about and just the tender to source as the LRM kit has a different one. The plan for that is super detailed Tri-ang believe it or not ! Painting it will be fun, Gordon Highlander more so ...

 

5 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

123 also double headed with Gordon Highlander on the very line I'm modelling, so kits for both have been in the cupboard for years. In theory 123 should be an easy build from the LRM kit - no valve gear or quartering to worry about and just the tender to source as the LRM kit has a different one. The plan for that is super detailed Tri-ang believe it or not ! Painting it will be fun, Gordon Highlander more so ...

Yes that's my issue, the painting, my efforts always seem to stuff up all of the effort I have put into the building, so with my deteriorating sight and unsteady hands, I have basically given up painting but I have never been a Goddard or  a Rathbone indeed far from it. I could never even come close to the RTR stuff.

Mike

 

[Pre Grouping fan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Seems unlikely, but not as improbable as the other drivers  - or for that matter the front bogie off the road!

Strange choice of publicity shot for a RTR manufacturer, what seems to be a DJH kit without its handrails.

 

Think it's explained on the website or first post here. It's a working 3d print sample to check clearances around the front end. I mistook it for a diecast body at first

[60B]

3 minutes ago, Legend said:

I bet Simon Kohlers dusting off the mouldings even as you speak . Maybe it will follow the Dean single being brought out this year, just as it did back in the sixties . I know 123 was in the Race for the North but I’ve never understood peoples fascination with it . A Caley Dunalastair or Cardean would be much better instead . 

123 was an anorchism at the time but proved there was still mileage in the single wheeler concept with a few tweaks. It lived a fairly quiet life after Race To The North antics working inspection saloons, Royal Pilot and a while spent on Dundee - Perth shuttles. It seems to have become a bit of a 'pet' locomotive which usually brings some goodwill from various corners. It was also a popular railtour locomotive but if it hadn't been saved like a Dean Single, it might well have just been a footnote for a design that was almost at an evolutionary dead end.  I'm sure theres a bias from the railtours but you just have to see how many people sought it out including luminaries of it on railtours especially the infamous C&O run in the snow. Plus, seeing how 828 and 419 are received wherever they go, theres a thirst for seeing the flair of the Caledonian liveries.

[Legend]

Apologies if everyone knew this but it seems the loco can be got with a discount from the likes of Rails or Derails , who both sent me a mailer on it , rather than full price at Rapido .  Brings the price down to £187 which is a welcome discount and now puts it sub Caley 812 and Precedent , which has got to be value for money 

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, 60B said:

123 was an anorchism at the time 

 

Not at all an anachronism. Neilsons built it for the 1886 Edinburgh Exhibition, following in many respects Drummond's Caledonian 66 Class 4-4-0, a batch of which Neilsons had built. (There can hardly not have been plenty of socialising between the staff of the Hyde Park and St Rollox drawing offices.) Neilsons would hardly have built an outmoded type as an exhibition engine - in fact, it was a pioneer of the single-wheeler revival, made possible by power sanding. Drummond had introduced compressed air sanding on the 66 Class, this was used on 123. Drummond was close to S.W. Johnson - going back to the early 60s at Cowlairs on the E&GR; his daughter Christine married Johnson's son James - so cannot but have been aware of the power sanding experiments at Derby. These had started out using compressed air from the Westinghouse pump but the Westinghouse Co. had objected to this, claiming that it could compromise the effectiveness of their brake. The Midland was anyway in the process of dropping Westinghouse in favour of the automatic vacuum brake; the outcome was the steam sanding system. Evidently Drummond was prepared to face Westinghouse down!

 

It should also be remembered that the highest recorded speeds obtained with British locomotives in the 19th century were both 90 mph with singles: NER Class J No. 1517 on test (a test conducted by another of Johnson's Cowlairs circle, W.M. Smith) and MR 115 Class No. 117 bowling down the 1:200 towards Bedford with a service train; and don't overlook the stupendous flying average of 70 miles at 80 mph by Duke of Connaught with the Ocean Mails in 1904. These were not obsolete types but at the forefront of express work with the loads they were asked to take in the period before the introduction of corridor carriages.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Compound2632

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Seems unlikely, but not as improbable as the other drivers  - or for that matter the front bogie off the road!

Strange choice of publicity shot for a RTR manufacturer, what seems to be a DJH kit without its handrails.

 

Already answered by Corbs 

15 hours ago, Corbs said:

 

Yeah most of them had flangeless centre drivers most of their lives.

 

and as Andy noted in the second post on the thread

 

 

and P G F noted it’s a basic 3D prototype for testing clearances. 
 

 

49 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Think it's explained on the website or first post here. It's a working 3d print sample to check clearances around the front end. I mistook it for a diecast body at first

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Compound2632]

What you need to understand is that in the spirit of fair play they've got to announce this early enough in the development process to give another manufacturer time to muscle in...

Edited February 26, 2022 by Compound2632

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

I bet Simon Kohlers dusting off the mouldings even as you speak . Maybe it will follow the Dean single being brought out this year, just as it did back in the sixties . I know 123 was in the Race for the North but I’ve never understood peoples fascination with it . A Caley Dunalastair or Cardean would be much better instead . 

I'm sure he is. It will have a top notch paint job no doubt but the rest will be pure 1960s Triang. I think the fascination amongst enthusiasts is that it was a) pretty and b) still around to look at, the fascination with modellers being nostalgia because Triang did it. 

 

Rails might be getting a pre-order, I don't really fancy trying to beat the DJH chassis into shape ...

[60B]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not at all an anachronism. Neilsons built it for the 1886 Edinburgh Exhibition, following in many respects Drummond's Caledonian 66 Class 4-4-0, a batch of which Neilsons had built. (There can hardly not have been plenty of socialising between the staff of the Hyde Park and St Rollox drawing offices.) Neilsons would hardly have built an outmoded type as an exhibition engine - in fact, it was a pioneer of the single-wheeler revival, made possible by power sanding. Drummond had introduced compressed air sanding on the 66 Class, this was used on 123. Drummond was close to S.W. Johnson - going back to the early 60s at Cowlairs on the E&GR; his daughter Christine married Johnson's son James - so cannot but have been aware of the power sanding experiments at Derby. These had started out using compressed air from the Westinghouse pump but the Westinghouse Co. had objected to this, claiming that it could compromise the effectiveness of their brake. The Midland was anyway in the process of dropping Westinghouse in favour of the automatic vacuum brake; the outcome was the steam sanding system. Evidently Drummond was prepared to face Westinghouse down!

 

It should also be remembered that the highest recorded speeds obtained with British locomotives in the 19th century were both 90 mph with singles: NER Class J No. 1517 on test (a test conducted by another of Johnson's Cowlairs circle, W.M. Smith) and MR 115 Class No. 117 bowling down the 1:200 towards Bedford with a service train; and don't overlook the stupendous flying average of 70 miles at 80 mph by Duke of Connaught with the Ocean Mails in 1904. These were not obsolete types but at the forefront of express work with the loads they were asked to take in the period before the introduction of corridor carriages.

It was still going out of fashion till the compressed air sanders came along then the trending upwards weight made it untenable for such front line work like you say. Singles were fast, theres no doubt but seemed to be somewhat fickle against less than ideal railhead conditions. Drummond facing up to Westinghouse is interesting. Do you know how much pressure the sanders required and how much of a drain on the reservoir 

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, 60B said:

It was still going out of fashion till the compressed air sanders came along 

 

Exactly; when Neilsons built 123 singles were coming back into fashion!

 

13 minutes ago, 60B said:

Do you know how much pressure the sanders required and how much of a drain on the reservoir 

 

Interesting question; I'll have to dig. I think Ahrons gives some description; also, I think somewhere I've seen Francis Holt's paper on steam sanding.

 

15 minutes ago, 60B said:

Drummond facing up to Westinghouse is interesting.

 

I'm not confident of evidence for this - perhaps in John Thomas' The Springburn Story? F.W. Webb famously showed George Westinghouse the door after the latter attempted to bribe him to adopt the air brake.

[tractionman]

Great to see early LMS livery covered, there's a lovely double page photograph in the book "LMSR Locomotives 1923-1948", volume 2, by H C Casserley, of 17928, in 1927 at Inverness shed, in this particular livery, for those interested. 

 

I wonder if we'll see an early LMS liveried McIntosh 812 class from Rails/Bachmann at some point...?

 

Meanwhile, well done Rapido, delighted to see this announcement.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[Quarryscapes]

Nice one, now for the other Jones Goods pretty please 

 

 

[Synch]

Well there's an immediate pre-order from me

Never thought I'd see the day when a Highland engine would be made RTR, a very interesting choice and one that I hope pays hand over fist for Rapido, if only to see the standardized components (tender, cab, bogey, fittings) be used to mock up a Loch in future(!)

I assumed it would take a very long time before anything at Glasgow museum would be picked by a manufacturer, though like Hardwicke even though these were basically gone by 1939 they still have a presence for more commonly modelled periods, I suppose that's the appeal but it works for me in any case.

Hornby should take note of doing something that will turn heads and isn't just about desperately clinging to gimmicks

Well done Rapido

[JSpencer]

I never thought I would see the Dave Jones being spoken in such a positive light again on this forum ! 

 

Great choice Rapido. Something I knew someone would do someday. 

[Robert Shrives]

I am looking forward to perhaps seeing some spare tenders  of CKD models being available in time to allow cut and shut messing to produce other locos.  If this is a gradual move into Scottish locos the wish list for HR engines will be a big one I am sure. a Ben, Loch, 0-4-4 tank and one of the 4-4-0 tanks intended for South America - very pretty locos.  Some even got LMS "red" so lots to go at.  

While discussion on coaches has centered so far on generics and LMS transfers in I would think that early wagons and vans could come from many sources but a Highland brake or road van will be on the list.

 

Robert