British outline 1:120 TT from Heljan

[Covkid]

24 minutes ago, 5Dublo2 said:

At this current tine they have dropped all that they originally announced, however, Heljan's withdrawl notice was titled with a graphic containing the letters TT:FN - which would appear to be a pun on TT that included a reference to "Ta Ta For Now!" (or TTFN in text speak). Which kind of indicates that they  are keeping their options open.

 

Thanks for that.   very wise move.  Let Simon Kohler lead the 120 revolution !!!

[britishcolumbian]

4 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

But the industry needs model shops, like hospitals need blood donations.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that one out.  The hobby is not cheap but people in the hobby want to go to their shops to browse and buy.  Even if they only need a pack of fishplates and another left hand point, the model shop allows them to gaze longingly into show cases of new stuff (for potential future or spur of the moment purchases) but also pick up 2nd hand items, have a chat with the owners and learn about new stuff announced.

 

A shop is very nice to have, but not at all necessary. After all I've been working with 1:120 for 20 years now, in a place where I was actively laughed at in model railway circles for the first ten years of it, nevermind have any shops to browse in.

[Jeff Smith]

Likewise, there are model shops around but not for much of the stuff I need - last one I visited was out of stock of the size of Evergreen styrene I wanted.  Amazon or eBay to the rescue!

[shunny]

I totally agree we need to support model shops I am lucky to have one in my home town. The trend is for more direct sales from many of the small/newer manufacturers have been offering lower priced models than the main stream and where they sell to shops margins are low thus making less profit. Hornby's decision looks to be based around this but received a mixed blessing response from my local shop as space for a whole new range would be difficult to find but direct sales only mean no chance to sell and promote the range. Heljan pulling out also had the effect of not being able to support with rolling stock even on a customer order basis so TT will not be a feature in near future.

[jjb1970]

On 22/10/2022 at 17:51, Covkid said:

 

But the industry needs model shops, like hospitals need blood donations.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that one out.  The hobby is not cheap but people in the hobby want to go to their shops to browse and buy.  Even if they only need a pack of fishplates and another left hand point, the model shop allows them to gaze longingly into show cases of new stuff (for potential future or spur of the moment purchases) but also pick up 2nd hand items, have a chat with the owners and learn about new stuff announced. 

 

If only Hornby stuck with the programme and helped the trade to help them, like Heljan and others do. 

 

Am I right in thinking Heljan have dropped British TT 120 completely now ?

 

The hobby needs sales outlets, what form those sales outlets take is for the market to decide. Mail order was taking sales from local model shops when I first started in the hobby in the late 70's with a trainset one Christmas. I remember for years the only reason I bought Railway Modeller and Continental Modeller was for the classifieds. Shops like Hattons were seriously undercutting local shops for years (noting that the box shifters actually are local shops for some). Now the discounting isn't what it used to be, but the box shifters are maintaining their position by offering an excellent online shopping experience, diversifying into producing their own models and the local competition has largely gone. Which indicates that whether a shop is local or remote is less important than what it sells, price and service. And if people do shop online then whether the seller is a retailer or the manufacturer is irrelevant if they provide an acceptable service. I would love a good local shop for British outline models but it isn't going to happen. If I was going to buy into British TT:120 the fact that it is only available from Hornby wouldn't bother me. What would bother me is the issue of separate postage.

[luke_stevens]

On 23/10/2022 at 14:53, jjb1970 said:

<snip>

The hobby needs sales outlets, 

<snip>

 

Personally I agree with you, but let me play Devil's Advocate.

 

When was the last time any of us actually bought a DVD or Blu-ray in person? There was a time when a visit to HMV was almost a weekly occurrence, even of I couldn't afford to buy. Nowadays I'll visit HMV in Bromley when I can get there. Yes the DVD / Blu-ray market isn't what it was but it is still active. 

 

I not only model UK prototypes but some mainland European ones too. For these many purchases are online (unless I'm on-holiday). I will try and use shops I have visited but I will also happily use "retailers" that I have never met or who may not have retail premises. 

 

Are these 2 examples any different from Hornby making it TT only available on-line?

 

My wonder is what happens when someone has been given a trainset for Christmas / birthday and visits a shop or exhibition, wanting to buy something only to find nothing is available. Is a retailer actually going to say "everything is only available online" or "we don't have anything / we won't stock TT", etc? That is a risk Hornby seems happy to take.

 

Luke

[jjb1970]

I should clarify that I see sales outlet as somewhere you can buy product, that could be on-line, or a mail order catalogue, or a bricks and mortar shop or any of the other possibilities, but if you want to sell something there has to be an outlet for that sale. My personal opinion is I'd love to see bricks and mortar shops, but I also think the hobby has always exploited mail order sales and is now largely based around online sales.

[bradfordbuffer]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I should clarify that I see sales outlet as somewhere you can buy product, that could be on-line, or a mail order catalogue, or a bricks and mortar shop or any of the other possibilities, but if you want to sell something there has to be an outlet for that sale. My personal opinion is I'd love to see bricks and mortar shops, but I also think the hobby has always exploited mail order sales and is now largely based around online sales.

I could remember the excitement of ordering ....by letter with a cheque! For a Lima blue western from Cheltenham model center in probably 1983/4 ish after saving up and asking mum for a cheque then waiting about a week or so and it arriving so nothing new in mail order although was from a shop! From the age of 12 can remember as part of my paper round job from the newsagents on smithdown Rd taking piles of cardboard to hattons for there post orders ....don't forget railway modeler was and sill is ⅔ adverts, a proportion of exibition traders don't have a shop other than the show and on line......its probably our own fault as we want best price for item xx so overheads like rent and staff get in the way.....I'm on first name terms with postie and maim parcel couriers so must hammer the on line stuff

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 23/10/2022 at 14:53, jjb1970 said:

Shops like Hattons were seriously undercutting local shops for years (noting that the box shifters actually are local shops for some).

Thank you for this - Hattons have been my local dedicated model railway store for most of the past twenty-five years (back to their original Smithdown Road shop), and while I do use their website / mail order, I also still call in to the store quite often too.  
 

My Heljan 31 pre-order was with Hattons because they’re the store I know (rather than price).  I was very disappointed when the project was cancelled, even though I can sympathise with Heljan’s reasoning.

In time I hope Heljan may return to TT:120, even if the TT:FN was just a way of leaving the door ajar (as well as being a clever sign off, as noted by @5Dublo2 and made popular by Jimmy Young on Radio 2 back in the day - which shows my age).

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[luke_stevens]

I've noticed that the Heljan TT120 class 31 are (back) on the Gaugemaster website. I'm sure they weren't there last time I looked.

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/brands/Heljan.html?scale=457

 

I wonder if this is new or an error?

 

Luke

[bradfordbuffer]

5 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

I've noticed that the Heljan TT120 class 31 are (back) on the Gaugemaster website. I'm sure they weren't there last time I looked.

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/brands/Heljan.html?scale=457

 

I wonder if this is new or an error?

 

Luke

Have you asked gaugemaster directly? 

[luke_stevens]

3 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Have you asked gaugemaster directly? 

 

No, I only spotted it on the way to work today. Looking again it is only the sound-fitted versions so I suspect they just haven't been removed from the website. Sad, as I would be more likely to order a cl 31 now!

 

Luke

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by luke_stevens

[HExpressD]

I wonder if, assuming that CAD is not a larger scale one shrunk down, they have realised that with no sign of anything to do with a Hornby TT 31 they are going to go ahead with it as a first attempt to see if there is a viable market for them to join. 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, HExpressD said:

I wonder if, assuming that CAD is not a larger scale one shrunk down, they have realised that with no sign of anything to do with a Hornby TT 31 they are going to go ahead with it as a first attempt to see if there is a viable market for them to join. 

 

Don't forget it was TTFN* and not totally cancelled. I would expect them to be placeholders if they do resurrect the idea.

 

Hattons have quite a few similar things that don't readily appear unless you search for them, including the never made Lima LNER V2!

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/14910/lima_l205130b_class_v2_2_6_2_4771_green_arrow_lner_light_green/stockdetail

 

 

*Ta Ta For Now for our youngsters!

 

 

Jason

[osbornsmodels]

Luke said

Quote

so I suspect they just haven't been removed from the website. 

I asked the question to GM and Luke's supposition is correct

regards

M

[bradfordbuffer]

3 hours ago, osbornsmodels said:

Luke said

I asked the question to GM and Luke's supposition is correct

regards

M

See.....quick phone call (old fashioned ....but it works)....it ends pages and pages of speculation...

 

 

 

 

But has it!

[61661]

13 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

See.....quick phone call (old fashioned ....but it works)....it ends pages and pages of speculation...

 

 

 

 

But has it!

Perhaps I can help, seeing as no-one has actually asked the manufacturer about it. ;-)
We have not resurrected our plans for TT and have no intention to do so as things stand. That may change at some point in the future if we feel it is viable, but we think it’s more productive to focus on developing our OO and O gauge ranges at the moment. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ben

[BachelorBoy]

5 hours ago, 61661 said:

Perhaps I can help, seeing as no-one has actually asked the manufacturer about it. ;-)
We have not resurrected our plans for TT and have no intention to do so as things stand. That may change at some point in the future if we feel it is viable, but we think it’s more productive to focus on developing our OO and O gauge ranges at the moment. 

 

 

Very sensible.

 

If TT:120 succeeds, then Hornby has created a massive potential market, and the risk for Heljan then to start making TT:120 is small, as there will be lots of profitable niches that Hornby can't fill. 

 

If TT:120 fails, then Hornby bears the costs.

 

[bradfordbuffer]

13 hours ago, 61661 said:

Perhaps I can help, seeing as no-one has actually asked the manufacturer about it. ;-)
We have not resurrected our plans for TT and have no intention to do so as things stand. That may change at some point in the future if we feel it is viable, but we think it’s more productive to focus on developing our OO and O gauge ranges at the moment. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ben

end of speculations ....well done Ben.....but going to miss post after post of detritus..

[MartinRS]

20 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

If TT:120 fails, then Hornby bears the costs.

How could a scale that's been around since 1946 and is the second-most popular scale in Central Europe fail? I'm just curious.

[BachelorBoy]

19 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

How could a scale that's been around since 1946 and is the second-most popular scale in Central Europe fail? I'm just curious.

 

I think you need to consider the title of the thread, and the context in which my comment was made. 

 

Or perhaps you are deliberately misunderstanding for comedy effect. Ha-ha.

[GordonC]

2 hours ago, MartinRS said:

How could a scale that's been around since 1946 and is the second-most popular scale in Central Europe fail? I'm just curious.

 

Bearing in mind the most common gauge here is OO rather than HO, there's no guarantee what Europe likes will be successful here.

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

Bearing in mind the most common gauge here is OO rather than HO, there's no guarantee what Europe likes will be successful here.

I am born and live in UK....I like French brie and Toblerone...should I model Ho😝