British outline 1:120 TT from Heljan

[47606odin]

1 hour ago, DY444 said:

 

Strange remark.  My Heljan diesels are far better runners than any of my Hornby or Bachmann models, and they need less maintenance too. 

indeed. Never had an issue. Always ran smooth and quiet

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, 47606odin said:

indeed. Never had an issue. Always ran smooth and quiet

I think that's generally the case, true for my Westerns,  other than the first batch of Class 17s which had significant problems.

[adb968008]

On 14/06/2022 at 12:26, Gordon A said:

Let us hope the mechanisms are better than the 00 ones.

Which model do you have thats not upto scratch in your opinion ?

 

 

[47606odin]

10 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I think that's generally the case, true for my Westerns,  other than the first batch of Class 17s which had significant problems.

i have had 33’s, 47’s, and now 86’s in OO. The O gauge mechanisms I have are beautifully made

[spamcan61]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Which model do you have thats not upto scratch in your opinion ?

 

 

First batch Class 17

[adb968008]

3 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

First batch Class 17

Thats er.. a decade and a dozen models before, and since… the later 17’s are imo nice runners, and they fixed the old ones to…

 

Thats quite some grudge to be holding, if thats the case, and I can think of a lot more models I would hang a manufacturer on before I reached the 17 in that list… if anything I’d have picked the Garratt myself.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by adb968008

[spamcan61]

33 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

Thats quite some grudge to be holding, if thats the case, and I can think of a lot more models I would hang a manufacturer on before I reached the 17 in that list… if anything I’d have picked the Garratt myself.

 

 

No grudge, on my part at least, it's just that I buy virtually all my locos second hand so I do my research on wrong 'uns to avoid.

[Les1952]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Which model do you have thats not upto scratch in your opinion ?

 

 

 

I had a class 14 which stuttered straight out of the box and didn't improve with running in, still have a class 05 which left its buffer beam behind while propelling a wagon on NO PLACE with punters watching - "hey Mr, is that engine supposed to fall apart while it is moving?" , and a railbus which as it has got older has warped along the line where the two halves of the body meed, meaning a gap visible on one side.   The only three Heljan locos I've ever bought.....

 

Les

[bradfordbuffer]

52 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

I had a class 14 which stuttered straight out of the box and didn't improve with running in, still have a class 05 which left its buffer beam behind while propelling a wagon on NO PLACE with punters watching - "hey Mr, is that engine supposed to fall apart while it is moving?" , and a railbus which as it has got older has warped along the line where the two halves of the body meed, meaning a gap visible on one side.   The only three Heljan locos I've ever bought.....

 

Les

With experiences like that you could have a career as a YouTube reviewer!

[D9020 Nimbus]

The railbus sounds like zinc pest. Haven't heard that they were subject to it but the owner of a model shop once showed me some years ago a drawer full of (early) class 47s with this issue.

[Hroth]

I like the look of the Bush Type 2/Class 31, I'd prefer a Class 08 shunter over an Austerity and perhaps a Class 101 DMU too.  It'd be the basis for a nice diesel era Minories!

 

[rmnik]

26 minutes ago, Hroth said:

I like the look of the Bush Type 2/Class 31, I'd prefer a Class 08 shunter over an Austerity and perhaps a Class 101 DMU too.  It'd be the basis for a nice diesel era Minories!

 

And some A60/A62 stock.

 

[luke_stevens]

Now that Hornby have jumped into the TT120 market in a big way, with some items scheduled for before Christmas (this year!) I wonder if Heljan would reconsider doing a different loco?

 

The Hornby TT120 brochure has announced: the 08 (first EP), 43 (mock-up), 50 & 66 (photo-mock-ups) and the 31, 47, 60 & 37 (announced with stock numbers) and suggested 67 & 73. Clearly Hornby seem to be intending on working their way through the models that they have CAD info for (perhaps not the 73).

 

But Heljan have CAD info that Hornby doesn't have including: 26/27/33, 35, 58 and 86. Could Heljan be convinced to change to something that hasn't already been announced? My preference would be the BRC&W Crompton/ Sulzer trio.

 

Luke

[britishcolumbian]

The 86 would make good sense, since it could also be released in Europhoenix and Floyd liveries for the Hungarian market - a market that's big enough to see RTR releases of locomotives manufactured in that country (MTB just released the Hungarian class M41 in TT... which aside from Hungary only ran in Greece, and a narrow-gauge derivative in Tunisia, neither of which are very big model railway markets...).

[bradfordbuffer]

20 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

Now that Hornby have jumped into the TT120 market in a big way, with some items scheduled for before Christmas (this year!) I wonder if Heljan would reconsider doing a different loco?

 

The Hornby TT120 brochure has announced: the 08 (first EP), 43 (mock-up), 50 & 66 (photo-mock-ups) and the 31, 47, 60 & 37 (announced with stock numbers) and suggested 67 & 73. Clearly Hornby seem to be intending on working their way through the models that they have CAD info for (perhaps not the 73).

 

But Heljan have CAD info that Hornby doesn't have including: 26/27/33, 35, 58 and 86. Could Heljan be convinced to change to something that hasn't already been announced? My preference would be the BRC&W Crompton/ Sulzer trio.

 

Luke

Heljan....the home of the dmu!.....? 

[britishcolumbian]

3 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Heljan....the home of the dmu!.....? 

I would jump on a 119, myself...

[luke_stevens]

16 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

The 86 would make good sense, since it could also be released in Europhoenix and Floyd liveries for the Hungarian market - a market that's big enough to see RTR releases of locomotives manufactured in that country (MTB just released the Hungarian class M41 in TT... which aside from Hungary only ran in Greece, and a narrow-gauge derivative in Tunisia, neither of which are very big model railway markets...).

 

I had to resist the Greek H0 one... Somewhere I have a photo of a Tunisian one in a livery that is rather like NSE!

 

Luke

[luke_stevens]

The Railfaneurope.net Picture Gallery

 

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ne/Tunisia/diesel/040-DO/040-DO-283.jpg

[britishcolumbian]

That looks sharp!

[andythenorth]

On 14/06/2022 at 22:31, Legend said:

followed by a Hornby one ?

I think you called it and are the fair winner of the sweepstake 😀

[Keith Addenbrooke]

3 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

Now that Hornby have jumped into the TT120 market in a big way, with some items scheduled for before Christmas (this year!) I wonder if Heljan would reconsider doing a different loco?

 

The Hornby TT120 brochure has announced: the 08 (first EP), 43 (mock-up), 50 & 66 (photo-mock-ups) and the 31, 47, 60 & 37 (announced with stock numbers) and suggested 67 & 73. Clearly Hornby seem to be intending on working their way through the models that they have CAD info for (perhaps not the 73).

 

But Heljan have CAD info that Hornby doesn't have including: 26/27/33, 35, 58 and 86. Could Heljan be convinced to change to something that hasn't already been announced? My preference would be the BRC&W Crompton/ Sulzer trio.

 

Luke

Hi Luke, don’t forget people have been pre-ordering the Class 31 - though I don’t know to what level of course.

 

I also won’t know if any pre-orders have been / are being / might be cancelled, either due to price rises (I think the Hattons pre-order price has risen from £169 to £185 for DC), or following the Hornby announcement on Monday?  If the levels of Heljan pre-ordering are healthy, then perhaps the question becomes “what’s next?” rather than “what if?”.  Just a thought.

 

Digging a bit deeper, a Hornby 31 is only mentioned as a future offering at this stage, not part of the scheduled phase releases*, so Heljan may seem the firmer choice for those wanting a 31.  Some who just wanted a TT:120 loco when there was no other option might be thinking again, as the Hornby coaches being offered may not be an obvious fit with some variants of the 31.

 

As I only have small layout ambitions, I think I only need a couple of locomotives, so I’m happy with my Heljan order, even if it is a bit more expensive (and the price rise is understandable).  The proof will be in product quality / value / price when they come, Keith.

 

(* Edit - @luke_stevens has corrected me on this point below: the Hornby 31 is scheduled for phases 3/4).

Edited October 12, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
Correction.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

18 minutes ago, andythenorth said:

I think you called it and are the fair winner of the sweepstake 😀

I’d give you second prize for remembering a post from 14th June that was on page two of the thread.

 

Interestingly, with regards to this thread, Simon Kohler of Hornby mentions having talked with Ben Jones about his TT:120 ambitions when the idea was being developed, in the World of Railways video interview SK did with Howard Smith of BRM.

 

Keith.

[luke_stevens]

42 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Hi Luke, don’t forget people have been pre-ordering the Class 31 - though I don’t know to what level of course.

 

I also won’t know if any pre-orders have been / are being / might be cancelled, either due to price rises (I think the Hattons pre-order price has risen from £169 to £185 for DC), or following the Hornby announcement on Monday?  If the levels of Heljan pre-ordering are healthy, then perhaps the question becomes “what’s next?” rather than “what if?”.  Just a thought.

 

Heljan's model is scheduled for "Oct 23 - Dec 23".

 

 

42 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Digging a bit deeper, a Hornby 31 is only mentioned as a future offering at this stage, not part of the scheduled phase releases, so Heljan may seem the firmer choice for those wanting a 31.  Some who just wanted a TT:120 loco when there was no other option might be thinking again, as the Hornby coaches being offered may not be an obvious fit with some variants of the 31.

 

The 31 is part of phase 3&4 rather than the "sometime" like the 67 & 73.

 

 

My worry is that Hornby's Stage 3 & 4  "2023" is sooner that Heljan scheduled "Oct 23 - Dec 23"-

 

Luke

[D9020 Nimbus]

I imagine Ben Jones is saying "should've started with the Hymek, like we did in O".

 

There's some merit in suggesting the BRCW trio, though. The 33 is as long-lived as the 31, if not as widespread in its use. The 26 and 27 were both used on iconic lines; a lot of early N gauge layouts were set in Scotland because of the Minitrix class 27, which ran well even though it’s proportions were somewhat mixed and the chassis was a 1-B-1…

 

I hope Heljan stick around. If TT:120 is to take off in any way — and Heljan are used to dealing with much more limited runs than Hornby will require — then the scale could survive a Hornby withdrawal. Hornby do have a habit of dropping ranges — TT3, Hornby-Minitrix, live steam, Lyddle End. What will count in the end, I suspect, is Peco's commitment to the scale. Their commitment to N helped it get off the ground, the Jubilee showing what was possible (though it wouldn't be bettered in appearance for another 30 years…

[Keith Addenbrooke]

52 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Heljan's model is scheduled for "Oct 23 - Dec 23".

 

 

 

The 31 is part of phase 3&4 rather than the "sometime" like the 67 & 73.

 

 

My worry is that Hornby's Stage 3 & 4  "2023" is sooner that Heljan scheduled "Oct 23 - Dec 23"-

 

Luke

 

Thanks Luke, quite right - I’d forgotten the Class 31 is listed (just without a picture) and I didn’t double check before typing (my bad).  As you say, this means Hornby could overtake Heljan and thereby impact Heljan Sales (this isn’t the place to debate ‘routes to market’ and their impact of course).

 

From the modeller’s point of view, looks like we’ve gone from nothing to already facing choices!  Keith.