bradfordbuffer Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, luke_stevens said: Heljan's model is scheduled for "Oct 23 - Dec 23". The 31 is part of phase 3&4 rather than the "sometime" like the 67 & 73. My worry is that Hornby's Stage 3 & 4 "2023" is sooner that Heljan scheduled "Oct 23 - Dec 23"- Luke Read between lines .....skinhead and headcode 31.... unrefurbished and refurbished 37s ....buffer cowels and stripped back 47s so lots of choices and livery variations! I wonder if 60s will be 2 piece drivers window or later 3?...hats off to Hornby for commitment! And the secrecy...no loose lips at margate! As this hasn't come about in last few weeks I bet there has been some late nights and long weekends to bring to public with a bang! I like the packing very triang.....bit of nostalgia for dad's. Edited October 12, 2022 by bradfordbuffer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, bradfordbuffer said: I wonder if 60s will be 2 piece drivers window Pretty sure the 60s didn't enter traffic with two-piece cabside drivers windows. IIRC it was an ASLEF requirement simply because a driver could not properly look out of the windows as built. AFAIK Brush only changed the drivers side windows though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, bradfordbuffer said: hats off to Hornby for commitment Commitment, or promising the earth to deter competitors? Time alone will tell, 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Covkid said: Pretty sure the 60s didn't enter traffic with two-piece cabside drivers windows. IIRC it was an ASLEF requirement simply because a driver could not properly look out of the windows as built. AFAIK Brush only changed the drivers side windows though 60008 was at saltley lip running around driver training and testing with unusable windows and the fleet had a fair few mods. 60 kicked out 2x56s on 45mgr wagon trains from gladstone dock to edge hill then fiddelers ferry PS. ...from a drivers point of view a cracking loco only ever failed on main line once , didn't original Lima 60 have 2 piece window? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 17 hours ago, luke_stevens said: Heljan have CAD info that Hornby doesn't have including: 26/27/33, 35, 58 and 86. And Class 45 (Lots of oddball protottypes too, but a bit early for them). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47423 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Heljan pulling out of TT120. 4 1 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Din Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) This seems very short sighted to me. Heljan had a chance to help shape the direction of TT in the UK (Like they have done with modern RTR) and have decided to abandon it to Kohler and co. There'll be some celebrations from Margate today. Edited October 13, 2022 by Din 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Din said: There'll be some celebrations from Margate today. Although the champagne won't turn up until Phase 2 😉 Edited October 13, 2022 by franciswilliamwebb 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2022 Seems prudent given that nobody knows whether the TT:120 market is commercially viable or not. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post John M Upton Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2022 Lovely dig at Hornby with the supporting retailers sign off there!!! 😆 6 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidmouth Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 A wise move . I can see TT becoming a white elephant and at worst will tank or at best will cannibalise from existing OO and N gauge markets . The notion there is somehow a vast untapped market I don't buy . 3 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Wow! What a commitment to the scale they had - not. TBH, I’m really not surprised, HJ don’t do TT in Europe either so it was more them jumping on the bandwagon with the Peco and Gaugemaster announcement. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Heljan don't want to spend money on a 31 in TT when everything else that runs with it is bad, a rose among the thorns TT may well become the next Hornby live steam........ 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 If it works, they can join later with better models. If it does not, they won't loose anything. Also If Hornby fails and withdraws, TT:120 will become a niche scale like O gauge which Heljan could then exploit. Sensible decision on their part really... 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, LaGrange said: Heljan don't want to spend money on a 31 in TT when everything else that runs with it is bad, a rose among the thorns This is an odd comment. But eh, it's an odd community. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just now, andythenorth said: This is an odd comment. But eh, it's an odd community. Hornby seems to have set a tangent for stock that doesnt run well, whereas Heljan stuff does. Wheres the odd bit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Keith Addenbrooke Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, 47423 said: Heljan pulling out of TT120. Thankyou for bringing this to our attention - I see it is also duplicated on the Heljan website as well as a being blog post. It rather overtakes the conversation we were having on this thread about whether Heljan would consider switching to an alternative just yesterday. Having nailed my colours to the mast for the Heljan 31, I’ll admit to feeling more than a little disappointed at this news, which is of course no reflection on Heljan: it’s an understandable decision, particularly in the current economic climate. As I don’t model in UK outline OO9, OO or O, it just remains to thank Ben Jones ( @61661 ) and the Heljan team for having taken a bold and positive move at the start of TT:120 - my respect for Heljan as a company has gone up, even though I’ll lose my order. Keith. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium andythenorth Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, LaGrange said: Hornby seems to have set a tangent for stock that doesnt run well, whereas Heljan stuff does. Wheres the odd bit? Been discussed in other threads, but eh. I have Hornby stuff that runs well and Hornby stuff that doesn't. I have Heljan stuff that runs well and Heljan stuff that doesn't. But nobody yet, outside of the supply chain, has any Hornby TT:120 stuff, so it seems a bit previous to be asserting that it's all bad and doesn't work. But eh here I am on rmweb, where this is just how the community thinks and acts. Maybe that makes me the daft one. 🙃 Edited October 13, 2022 by andythenorth 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2022 I think the point being made was that we still don't quite know at what detail level the Hornby TT:120 models are going to be. Are they going to be like smaller OO scale models with lots of separate details, or like larger N gauge models, with more molded on detail. At the moment, we just don't know, but I would bet that Heljan wouldn't want to make anything other than a super-detailed model, and if Hornby are going with the latter, it would stick out like a sore thumb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Rich_F Posted October 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) Maybe Heljan have now decided that TT in the UK is Hornby's gamble to either succeed, or ruin on the company on (depending on your opinion). Edited October 13, 2022 by Weeny Works 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Weeny Works said: Maybe Heljan have now decided that TT in the UK is Hornby's gamble to either succeed, or ruin on the company on (depending on your opinion). My gut instinct is Hornby jumped on the bandwagon after Heljan went public & pleased the public for their own gain. Now Hornby have attempted to smother the market, Heljan have withdrawn & the clamour for TT may wane. Only one major manufacturer investing in a scale that many modelers won't want to go down (being financially vested in N/OO/O). The Heljan announcement was in June. Hornby could not possibly have conceived one loco, let alone an entire range + marketing etc, within just 4 months. So I believe it was within Hornby's pipeline. That said they "MAY" have added some token additional items to the list "we will also eventually do a 31, J94 etc.." as possibly a warning shot across Heljan's bows to keep off the grass. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Unsurprising, but Heljan is a business, so of TT:120 takes off in the UK I'm sure that they will consider whether they want to participate. As mentioned above, the Hornby TT:120 plans have clearly been 'in train' so to speak for some time and make use of models for which CADs exist in 00 scale so despite the conspiracy theorists the plan for a Hornby 31 looks to be very much a pre-existing one. Now if Heljan want to shrink the Class 25 I would be very tempted... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishcolumbian Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Stupid and short-sighted, but hey, their loss. Conversely, they haven't got into continental TT because they felt they couldn't compete with Tillig, who want the scale to themselves, now here they see another Tillig in Hornby and are running away from this, too, instead of redoubling their efforts like Piko did against Tillig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 People forget - this has been at least 2 years in planning, Hornby didnt react to Heljans news suddenly 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, andythenorth said: But nobody yet, outside of the supply chain, has any Hornby TT:120 stuff, so it seems a bit previous to be asserting that it's all bad and doesn't work. Erm yes they do, I have some Hornby TT:120 stuff, albeit under the Arnold Label, which runs beautifully 😜😜😜 Let's hope their British stuff is as good. Regards Neal. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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