Hornby announce TT:120

[InterCity80s]

1 hour ago, RyanN91 said:

 Perhaps there could be a hint of what's to come further down the line (no pun intended) Intercity 225, Hitachi Class 800s, Eurostar Class 373, Class 370 APT-P, of the Hornby TT:120 range.

 

The Class 800 is listed in Hornby's brochure as coming in phase 3/4. If they announce an APT and 225 I could be really tempted.

Edited October 10, 2022 by InterCity80s

[sjp23480]

All quite exciting, but did anyone spot this statement in the brochure:

 

"Introducing Hornby TT:120, a Table Top model railway format that uses an internationally recognised scale of 1:120 or in simple terms, 1” to 1’ and is a perfect scale for those of all ages who maybe limited for space"

 

Correctme if I am wrong, but 1" to 1' is 1:12? 

 

Isn't TT:120 - 1" to 10'?

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but little things do seem to bother me!

 

Also noted the statement on the last page of the brochure says:

 

"New releases

This catalogue shows items planned for introduction in 2022. Delivery periods may be subject to variation. The illustrations of such items show Hornby prototype or photo enhanced models which may not conform exactly to production versions."

 

Steve

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by sjp23480
Added text

[Allegheny1600]

2 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

 

This is basically me!!!!

 

Off the top of my head I have 14 locos (either own or on pre-order if that counts) with the main theme being the Cambrian network. Of these only 4 (2x4MT, 1x 6MT, 1x 2MT) are made by Hornby so as a proportion they don't dominate

 

I was born in 1997 so am I a millennial? Can never remember what label I'm given!  I don't partake in Snapchat, Tiktok, Instagram etc. I don't have time to sit scrolling when I have modelling to do 😂

 

I rent a 2 bed flat, though its more like a squashed terrace house than a s#@?ty bed sit type thing

 

I don't have the space for a full size roundy roundy type thing but have settled for a shed scene ~2mx0.6m and can't go any bigger but obviously can't run any trains. It more of a glorified display cabinet 😅

 

Yes. I would like a roundy roundy just to watch trains run around

 

DOES THIS MAKE ME THE TARGET AUDIENCE???????

Probably!

 I **think** the term “millennial” means someone who came of age during the 2000’s but I haven’t checked, I probably should really!

By the way, I’m certainly not meaning any disrespect by my use of the term, as I wouldn’t take any offence if you or anyone else called me a “baby boomer”!

It’s just a way of saying “not a pensioner” - which is where a substantial number of model railway customers come from.

Cheers.

[andyman7]

46 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Oxford may have started to reuse it first but they and Hornby have a common ownership structure. The key point is that the rights sold off in the 1970s had lapsed. 

 

43 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Only recently. Oxford have had Triang in the catalogue for about 15 years, well before any Hornby involvement.

Jason

Your point being?

[MikeParkin65]

As an aside from the main topic I found it interesting that they have finally put some life into the Pullman livery as well as using their new and much more acceptable BR green. Surprised the A4 repeats the ugly reinterpretation of the cylinder covers being flat as opposed to any attempt to portray the wrap around of the prototype - there must be a better way surely. 

[Hroth]

20 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And Simon Kohler did state no big announcement in January, announcements will be trickled throughout the year which is as per everyone else.  But whether this is all scales are just TT I don't know, I would be cautious of them making a big statement in January about OO when TT is going to be the priority for the foreseeable if early take up is good.

 

You could look at it as Hornby have undelivered major items from the 2021 and 2022 announcements, so there's a lot of product to come through.  A scaled down offering of "new" OO items in January 2023 might be on the cards, together with the phased releases of TT items.

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Some general thoughts:

 

In the catalogue images, the A3 and A4 look highly-detailed and so do the 50s but the class 66s do not. That may mean they're "Railroad" quality, or it might not, depending on how the images have been produced — they might be "photoshopped" Railroad 66s but if so they should say so — Bachmann always make it clear when this sort of thing is done. Though that would account for the low prices.

 

As far as the track is concerned, as @AY Mod said above, there are no technical specs for that or for anything else. It appears to be based around a "standard" straight of 166mm — this is the same as Tillig use in their "Modellgleis" range so it may be compatible with that (which is, I think, code 80). However the points are also 166mm long, the same as the Tillig EW2 points, whilst Tillig make shorter (EW1) points which are 129.5mm long (and longer ones as well). The Hornby points have an equivalent radius of 631mm, and will take up nearly as much space as "settrack" points do in OO; not much space saving there. There's also an error in either the track pack contents or in the catalogue descriptions of the track — check out extension pack 1 (TT8030) for instance. This is supposed to contain a point and it’s compensating curve, but according to the descriptions the curve is 30 degrees and the point is 15 degrees and the radii don't match.

 

As far as the range of stock is concerned, there are some curious omissions — no BR standard brake van or 16t mineral. And why is the  08 not available in green? 
 

The main advantage of the couplings is that they make it easier to shunt — something that is tricky in N gauge. They can be replaced by other TT or N gauge couplings provided that the pockets are a correct implementation of the NEM standard — the Farish N gauge ones aren't. Dapol Easi-Shunts should fit, for instance.

This is something I might be interested in — I don't have enough space to do what I'd like to do in OO and find shunting in N gauge to be frustrating at times, and have a number of Continental TT models — but the only one of the initial models that would interest me is the 08 and I'd want it in green. And I won't be placing any pre-orders until I've seen the items reviewed by someone I trust (probably not the magazine they have a "special relationship" with, though, as I don't find their reviews all that convincing).

 

[Moxy]

14 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

All quite exciting, but did anyone spot this statement in the brochure:

 

"Introducing Hornby TT:120, a Table Top model railway format that uses an internationally recognised scale of 1:120 or in simple terms, 1” to 1’ and is a perfect scale for those of all ages who maybe limited for space"

 

Correctme if I am wrong, but 1" to 1' is 1:12? 

 

Isn't TT:120 - 1" to 10'?

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but little things do seem to bother me!

 

Also noted the statement on the last page of the brochure says:

 

"New releases

This catalogue shows items planned for introduction in 2022. Delivery periods may be subject to variation. The illustrations of such items show Hornby prototype or photo enhanced models which may not conform exactly to production versions."

 

Steve

 

 

 

Yes it is.  TT:120 is 1/10" to 1' (or 1" to 10' if you prefer).  If Hornby have put that in the leaflet then someone hasn't proof read it properly.

[Stefen1988]

2 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

It appears to be based around a "standard" straight of 166mm — this is the same as Tillig use in their "Modellgleis" range so it may be compatible with that (which is, I think, code 80). However the points are also 166mm long, the same as the Tillig EW2 points, whilst Tillig make shorter (EW1) points which are 129.5mm long (and longer ones as well). The Hornby points have an equivalent radius of 631mm, and will take up nearly as much space as "settrack" points do in OO; not much space saving there. There's also an error in either the track pack contents or in the catalogue descriptions of the track — check out extension pack 1 (TT8030) for instance. This is supposed to contain a point and it’s compensating curve, but according to the descriptions the curve is 30 degrees and the point is 15 degrees and the radii don't match

 

 

As I said, their tracks look like from Tillig. Also the power connector clip looks identical.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

You could look at it as Hornby have undelivered major items from the 2021 and 2022 announcements, so there's a lot of product to come through.  A scaled down offering of "new" OO items in January 2023 might be on the cards, together with the phased releases of TT items.

 

Hopefully, because at the scale they appear to be doing things it's clearly been stretching them as it is - cancelled pre-orders, issues with paint jobs and protrusions inside carriages.  They need to have their eye on the ball or this all goes spectacularly badly.  I note that in Phase 4 the Hornby Class 31 appears, that will likely be head to head with the Heljan 31 so I am guessing phase 4 has to be here for Xmas 2023, a very aggressive timescale for TT next year beyond this massive initial announcement.

[D9020 Nimbus]

29 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

BTW there is British RTR with correct scale to track ratio. O Gauge.... 

It isn't — the gauge is 32mm but it should be 33 (someone one said 'H0 would have been fine for British models if it had really been half 0 [i.e. 16 not 16.5]).

[adb968008]

Wow… Hornby own the TT market.

 

But lets face it, if they didnt, it would only ever be niche.

This looks like a 5 year commit at least by Hornby…

its going to take a couple of years to grow those trainsets into layouts.

 

Keeping that market potential  knowledge  internally would be extremely valuable to indicate where this range is going… 

Which brings me to Intellectual property.. Hornbys just defined a new market and created a load of IP for it…. By going for a spread they can learn who it appeals to, young, old, modern steam etc, unlike more careful competitors.

 

and sales..

 

Yes the website is a hub, but it can be expanded to supermarkets etc.. keeping it in house keeps the cost down, margin up and overall risk lower.

ok the retailer misses out, but it leaves that space open to the competitors…

 

All that assumes joe public buys a TT set, and canabalises a 00 set sale for christmas.
 

Whats in it for me as a customer ?
 

1. As a customer, I dont know… is this railroad, is this high detailed spec ?

 

Once I know that I can make decisions….

 

2. Whats the future of OO ?

 

Its not in danger, but 009 / O opened up a market to competitors to fill with OO whilst the big boys rushed to 009/ O.

If Hornbys resting its OO range and TT doesnt work out, Hornby could find themselves eaten out of the market, and a bunch of youngsters on a Betamax rather than VHS  product… and potentially lose them altogether.

 

Conversely if This does work out the future is Hornbys to lose.

 

Is Hornby spend at risk, if they cut back on OO tooling?

 

3. whats it going to cost me ?

 

Well i’m very well invested in OO and tbh nearly complete, bar modern image multiple units… selling up and starting again is a multi-year decision.

How much I lose in selling up is a factor.

However if TT brings a higher quality at a lower price point.. it starts looking attractive.

 

At the moment I just don't know… its all good thinking TT gives me a longer train for the same space.. but each coach costs money as does each extra panel of track.

 

 But its new, its exciting If it becomes a gold rush for territory i’m not sure where OO stands, but given cost of OO that might be a welcome relief.. and in a couple of years a bit TT range may bring a landslide.

 

The fundamentals of “so what” though are not yet met, but lets see… but to bring change it needs to be different.. not just in size.

 

Are the old fashioned issues going to be addressed: Detail, Accuracy, Paint shade, spare parts etc.

Edited October 10, 2022 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Some general thoughts:

 

In the catalogue images, the A3 and A4 look highly-detailed and so do the 50s but the class 66s do not. That may mean they're "Railroad" quality, or it might not, depending on how the images have been produced — they might be "photoshopped" Railroad 66s but if so they should say so — Bachmann always make it clear when this sort of thing is done. Though that would account for the low prices.

 

 

 

But are the images TT or OO with TT couplings - the old Bachmann trick with N gauge stock before there is an image of the model.

 

Catalogues / marketing may have been completed before final decorated samples of the new stuff was available.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Just now, Stefen1988 said:

 

As I said, their tracks look like from Tillig. Also the power connector clip looks identical.

I would hope the points are different — standard Tillig points are non-latching. Also Hornby have larger radius curves (640mm) presumably to match the points; Tillig don't.

 

IMHO if the track is from Tillig they should have used the ballasted track.

[D9020 Nimbus]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

But are the images TT or OO with TT couplings - the old Bachmann trick with N gauge stock before there is an image of the model.

 

Catalogues / marketing may have been completed before final decorated samples of the new stuff was available.

But Bachmann say "OO model shown" in their catalogue, so at least you know.

[Stefen1988]

I wonder why they do not came up with ballasted tracks when this is more for hobbists / casual customers.

[Hobby]

Just now, Stefen1988 said:

I wonder why they do not came up with ballasted tracks when this is more for hobbists / casual customers.

 

Because they can't launch everything at once, a point seemingly missed by many posters. 

[eldomtom2]

1 minute ago, Hobby said:

 

Because they can't launch everything at once, a point seemingly missed by many posters. 

Are you saying you know the Hornby TT track to not be new?

[Stefen1988]

They could release ballasted tracks instead - I don't see there is an issue with "they can't launch everything at once"..

Edited October 10, 2022 by Stefen1988

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

But Bachmann say "OO model shown" in their catalogue, so at least you know.

But that's Bachmann, at the head of the TT120 page is a ROG class 37 - is that TT too, they are not due till next year.

[Hobby]

I didn't say that, simply pointing out that they can't launch everything at once, what they have in the pipeline I don't know and never said any different. Just I see lots if posts saying "why haven't they launched this or that" to which the answer is obvious, they can't do everything at once!

3 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Are you saying you know the Hornby TT track to not be new?

 

[Hobby]

3 minutes ago, Stefen1988 said:

They could release ballasted tracks instead - I don't see there is an issue with "they can't launch everything at once"..

 

So should they prioritise your choices over those of others?!

[andythenorth]

Being terribly childish, I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, although I made it through the first 4 pages.

 

Can someone summarise?

 

Have the thinking types all agreed with each other that this is all terribly stupid and can't possibly work yet?

 

Has valve gear been mentioned?  Is there a debate about why this isn't 3mm?

 

i.e.  is there any actual content in the thread beyond the first page announcement?

Edited October 10, 2022 by andythenorth

[adb968008]

So the staples and popular models of:

 

16t mineral

class 37

class 47

Black 5

8f

WD

MN/WC/BB

 

are all still up for grabs…

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by adb968008

[eldomtom2]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

So the staples and popular models of:

 

Brake Van

16t mineral

Box van

mk1 coaches

class 37

class 47

Black 5

8f

WD

MN/WC/BB

 

are all still up for grabs…

 

Hornby are doing about half of those.