Heljan ES1 exclusive for Locomotion and Rails of Sheffield

[Eddie the dog]

Hi,

Looking at the two Locomotion models, can anyone please let me know whether the version with

the raised handrails on the bonnet is correct for this time ?

In other words, once the pantograph was moved from the bonnet to the roof would the handrails

also be changed ?
Thanks.

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

Hi,

Looking at the two Locomotion models, can anyone please let me know whether the version with

the raised handrails on the bonnet is correct for this time ?

In other words, once the pantograph was moved from the bonnet to the roof would the handrails

also be changed ?
Thanks.

As I understand the info the raised handrails were from the original bow collector? The LNER versions have them so I think it was simplified to straight in BR days?

Edited November 30, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Eddie the dog]

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 30/11/2022 at 11:46, PaulRhB said:

As I understand the info the raised handrails were from the original bow collector? The LNER versions have them so I think it was simplified to straight in BR days?

Yes and no.  The handrails went round the blocks on which the collector stood ....  photo on wicked pedia shows what looks vaguely like a NEM pocket below the drawgear!

 

I assume the pulley on the horizontal beam was a rope to control the collector up/down.  Hopefully that would be electrically dead when drawing power from 3rd rail & vice versa.  I think bow collectors trail according to the direction of travel?  If so, there must be enough slack in the line wire to allow it go over the top.  Also I assume the collector needed to be down when passing through tunnels using 3rd rail, so did it somehow clip to the cab roof/lie flat on the handrail at the end of the loco (clearing the headlamp)?  Looks as though it would protude beyond the buffers though, and I  see no obvious locking mechanism.

 

I can understand the decision not produce the bow collector version, but given that there were two locos in the class and they are producing five models, two in LNER liveries, it seems odd that they didn't use the alternate number for at least one version.

 

As the prototype is 3rd rail capable, you can of course justify use without OHLE with no need to apply Rule 1 (beyond it being confined to Tyneside).  They might usefully have played this up as a selling point.  I still can't decide which one I will go for, though it will definitely be one of the green ones - and the Triang steeple cab can hide in the back of the shed.

 

 

[johndon]

Rails have taken payment in full this afternoon so not too long now so we’ll find out if the livery error has been corrected and if the missing roof detail is on the production version. 
 

Looking forward to getting it. 

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, johndon said:

Rails have taken payment in full this afternoon so not too long now so we’ll find out if the livery error has been corrected and if the missing roof detail is on the production version. 
 

Looking forward to getting it. 

I understand from what I heard at Warley at the weekend that their arrival in the UK is 'close'.

[AlfaZagato]

Payment hasn't been taken from me yet.   I did receive an email that they were due next week.

[Mallard60022]

Excuse this if already mentioned. 

From what I can gather, the ES Locos worked Trafalgar Yard, mostly on OHL and then only through the Tunnel (3rd Rail) and onto/away from one tiny part of the Quayside. I can't remember how much OHL there was down on the Quay.

A J72 worked the Quayside and also came 'up' for servicing.

A fascinating Yard and Branchline. 

An EM Layout based on Trafalgar Yard was built by an ex RMWebber (Steve ?) and might still be at the North Blyth MR Club?

I saw the ES Loco's whilst using the Coastal 'Loop' around to Whitley Bay, back in 1960/61/62I only visited once in recent years and there are very few clues as to where things were. Googe Earth is worth a prod. The exit from the Tunnel onto Quayside is just about identifiable. Parts of the Trafalgar Yard site are just about identifiable.  Mostly now Metro and associated structures.

I have quite a bit of info if anyone is interested.

Phil 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mallard60022

[Porcy Mane]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Parts of the Trafalgar Yard site are just about identifiable. 

 

Hardly me owld Duck.

 I should have been there this afternoon. You can walk down a set of steps across the top of the Quay Yard tunnel entrance. Thats about it.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/DRf3dMDMjQ74GiUEA

 

I doctored up a map a few years ago. See earlier in the thread

 

 

Last time I saw the Traff Yard Layout it was at the N.E. & Borders EM group skills day at Stannington. That'll have been a good few years ago. Dunno if it's been exhibted since.

[Mallard60022]

18 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Hardly me owld Duck.

 I should have been there this afternoon. You can walk down a set of steps across the top of the Quay Yard tunnel entrance. Thats about it.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/DRf3dMDMjQ74GiUEA

 

I doctored up a map a few years ago. See earlier in the thread

 

 

Last time I saw the Traff Yard Layout it was at the N.E. & Borders EM group skills day at Stannington. That'll have been a good few years ago. Dunno if it's been exhibted since.

Wish I had had that map when I went up to investigate.

I missed those steps when I was there about ten years back. I walked up near the old Seamens' Mission and followed roads/Cut bank, up to a big flyover parallel to the Metro/Railway. There were few hints at the Tunnel Cuttings to the left going up Cut Bank, behind a scrap yard I think iy was?

Walked along that Flyover for quite a way towards Manors, to the Over Bridge that used to carry the Trolly Lines over the end of Traf Yard. In behind some buildings a little further on, I could see across the main lines, across to Student(?) Flats and the emerging Metro Lines and there were a few bits of ancient metalwork on walls etc.

Down on Quayside I could see zero evidence at all at the time.

Phil.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

I think this is where T Yard used to end

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9744015,-1.5997132,3a,90y,240.37h,93.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syp6nsNGIjYB2Ntd3TdhHcQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9746615,-1.5993998,3a,55y,83.62h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1se8Qlw4XT-wuYiwwNp6OLJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

The Advertising Boards were there in the steam days, but not electric!

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9743861,-1.6006795,3a,75y,143.43h,88.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syp5CAh5WVsiZHhOlHVi5Ng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Or down here to the right in the cutting? I remember Argyle Street, as I am from Plymouth originally.

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9740167,-1.6023304,3a,75y,88.67h,91.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn-WZgZxxPKpujg8_zREahA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

If you go to the end of this Cul de sac that is where I looked over into the Cutting and saw the wall fittings etc. The Tunnel Entrance was down at the over Bridge in the distance.

 

This is the Bridge at the manors end of what was the yard.

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9735679,-1.6036565,3a,38.1y,109.44h,78.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siFYsviRrByesCP_q9jocTg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mallard60022

[johndon]

30 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think this is where T Yard used to be, between the two bridges?

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9746615,-1.5993998,3a,55y,83.62h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1se8Qlw4XT-wuYiwwNp6OLJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Looking in the wrong direction, if you were standing where that view is taken from, it was over your right shoulder.

Edited December 2, 2022 by johndon

[Mallard60022]

10 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

Looking the wrong direction, if you were standing where that view is taken from, it was over your right shoulder.

Thanks, yes, sorry, I've got the Argyle Street view now. It was 10+years back and I had got soaked on that Flyover in an horrendous Thunderstorm Cloudburst! Tha's my excuse and further development has taken place seemingly.

Phil

[Porcy Mane]

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think this is where T Yard used to end

 Depends which end you're talking about.😜

 

Argyle Street box was about 50 yds. behind the bricks.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/rJBnmpFb6KjMfik17

 

Here's your cul-de-sac over the yard.

 

 

Today:     https://goo.gl/maps/xLSHPh84dBJ2gpjg7

 

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

The Advertising Boards were there in the steam days, but not electric!

 Oh yes they were. May not be physically the same boards but add hoardings have been on that site since the coming of the rails. The one shown in your link is on the top off the shortest of the Quayside branch tunnels.

See earlier in the thread.

 

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Or down here to the right in the cutting? I remember Argyle Street, as I am from Plymouth originally.

 

Ooooh! the Two Trees Union Street. Interesting. There was a few ad hoardings around that pub. Some of them quite mobile. Sunday afternoons in the Ark Royal  (pub not carrier) could be entertaining.

 

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I've got the Argyle Street view now. It was 10+years back and I had got soaked on that Flyover in an horrendous Thunderstorm Cloudburst!

 

Spooky!   I went to take some photo's of the Quay Yard just before the work began to fill the area to let the redevelopment of the quayside start in earnest. Twas bright and sunny. Afore I got back in the car the worst thunderstorm I've ever encountered began. Must be the area.

 

Lightning was hitting the ground all around and when I got to Whitley Bay I stood in my mates garage with the doors open and watched lightning knock chimney pots off houses opposite. Somewhere I have the negs of the snaps I took that day.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Porcy Mane
Add missing words and letters. There still might be some missing.

[Phil Parker]

The things you see when you haven't brought a proper camera. At the MRC mini-show today, I got my hands on the ES1, and a lovely little thing it is too. Sadly, I only had my mobile 'phone to work with and despite shutting it down in Pro mode, the depth of field is still rubbish. Still, here's some eye candy.

 

 

[johndon]

Looks very nice but it does confirm the livery error and the missing roof detail. Time for a little scratch building when mine arrives… 

[Porcy Mane]

1 hour ago, johndon said:

Looks very nice but it does confirm the livery error and the missing roof detail.

 

Probably the same model that has been doing the rounds. (bent lamp bracket). I don't hold out much hope John.

 

Apart from the buffers & bonnet handrails it looks like its one tooling fits all. Bow pen & Airbrush at the ready to correct the livery.

 

I'm also hoping with the bogies, it will be possible to swap them end for end to get rid of the NEM socket thus correcting the shoes at the same time.

 

[johndon]

8 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

I'm also hoping with the bogies, it will be possible to swap them end for end to get rid of the NEM socket thus correcting the shoes at the same time.

 

Hadn't spotted that...

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, johndon said:

Hadn't spotted that...

 

[johndon]

Cheers Porce, I note that on the example at Shildon, the shoes appear to be fitted rather further 'inboard' than when in BR Service...

 

https://www.the-siding.co.uk/class_es1/pictures/es1.jpg

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

35 minutes ago, johndon said:

I note that on the example at Shildon, the shoes appear to be fitted rather further 'inboard' than when in BR Service...

 

Maybe they restored it to the pre-sandbox condition?  (or just remounted the bogies the opposite way round to what they had been?). The frame for the lympdik has also been removed from the Shildon loco but the cable remains. At least that's what it was like the last time I looked.

[johndon]

7 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Maybe they restored it to the pre-sandbox condition?  (or just remounted the bogies the opposite way round to what they had been?). The frame for the lympdik has also been removed from the Shildon loco but the cable remains. At least that's what it was like the last time I looked.

 

Looks like the model is based solely on the loco as it is now then as the shoes are the right place for it's current condition and, if the lympdik is missing from the roof, that would explain it missing on the model.  I assume that no one at Heljan looked at photos of the loco in service and noticed the differences...

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

Looks like the model is based solely on the loco as it is now then as the shoes are the right place for it's current condition and, if the lympdik is missing from the roof, that would explain it missing on the model.  I assume that no one at Heljan looked at photos of the loco in service and noticed the differences...

Locomotion models are usually done as they are preserved and possibly the extra tooling for those details was decided to be not worth the extra cost if it was already tight to the budget? I suspect it’s a deliberate decision and they think it’s a fairly easy bit of detailing if people are wanting to make it fully accurate? If they were determined to hit the same price point again then cutting a few pounds off each models tooling cost makes sense. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Legend]

18 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

Looks like the model is based solely on the loco as it is now then as the shoes are the right place for it's current condition and, if the lympdik is missing from the roof, that would explain it missing on the model.  I assume that no one at Heljan looked at photos of the loco in service and noticed the differences...

 

 I suspect I'm going to regret asking this, but whats "the lympdik"

[johndon]

1 minute ago, PaulRhB said:

Locomotion models are usually done as they are preserved and possibly the extra tooling for those details was decided to be not worth the extra cost of it was already tight to the budget? I suspect it’s a deliberate decision and they think it’s a fairly easy bit of detailing if people are wanting to make it fully accurate? If they were determined to hit the same price point again then cutting a few pounds off each models tooling cost makes sense. 

 

You're probably right, I know I'll be adding the roof box and seeing if I can turn the bogies round as well.  The livery error on the BR green version will take a bit more work though.