Graham Farish Winter 2022 announcements

[woodenhead]

50 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

Up to a point I don’t disagree with what you’re suggesting.  However, why would anyone contemplate starting modelling in N when, yes they can buy a shiny big ticket locomotive but, they can’t buy the vehicles to stick behind it. It’s not conducive to growing nor even maintaining the sector. 
 

The thread is going ‘round in circles, as they always do, for which I appreciate I’m as much to blame. 
 

best

 

Scott. 

I agree, and it's a chicken and egg situation.

 

I guess it depends on the demographics of the UK N gauge scene - new entrants versus long term modellers who have collections already.

 

It's not just an issue in N though with coaches is it, I wouldn't say Rails is exactly awash with Maroon and Blue grey Mk1 and Mk2s.

[scottystitch]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

It's not just an issue in N though with coaches is it, I wouldn't say Rails is exactly awash with Maroon and Blue grey Mk1 and Mk2s.

 

Possibly not, but just because it may be an issue in other scales ( I don't know I haven't looked) doesn't mean it's less valid in this scale.

 

Best

Scott.

 

 

 

[scottystitch]

3 hours ago, 03060 said:

 

The layout you mention was by Chris Thorp and is top of my file as my main inspiration (as I know it has inspired others) .... unfortunately, no matter how hard I try I frustratingly just can't quite match all of it's content or ingenuity in the space that I have available .... I've literally spent years pondering this .... hopefully this winter will see the start of my compromise.

 

Apologies to others for the thread drift.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Are there any images of this layout online? 

 

What was it called, do you know?

 

Best

 

Scott.

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, scottystitch said:

Possibly not, but just because it may be an issue in other scales ( I don't know I haven't looked) doesn't mean it's less valid in this scale.

 

Best

Scott.

But it is a problem across the scales - it's very loco centric though Accurascale are creating an ecosystem around their wagons, coaches and locos.  However, they are still batch driven, so once they are gone they are gone.

 

When you look at the 009 models the main focus is on the excellent locos that Bachmann is turning out, I expect that those purchasing most of them already have the 009 layout with kit built or Peco coaches to go with them.

[03060]

3 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

Are there any images of this layout online? 

 

What was it called, do you know?

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

Not that I'm aware of Scott, it was in the Railway Modeller Jan 1990 with an Oban follow up in Oct 1991; the original article being under the heading of West Highland in N. As it was a home loft layout I doubt that it appeared anywhere else. I'll PM the trackplan to you.

 

Regards,

Ian

[woodenhead]

@03060 Ta, I might go back and look at those modellers via my subscription.

 

The locos might look a little dated now compared to the modern versions but it remains an epic layout.

[McC]

34 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

But it is a problem across the scales - it's very loco centric though Accurascale are creating an ecosystem around their wagons, coaches and locos.  However, they are still batch driven, so once they are gone they are gone.

Like all manufacturers? At least until the next batch, or the one after that :) 

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, McC said:

Like all manufacturers? At least until the next batch, or the one after that :) 

I wasn't being critical and I know Accurascale have done plenty of reruns.  In reality it's always been batch driven and there has never been a never ending production line of coaches or steel mineral wagons that just keep churning out.

 

The argument that there are not enough coaches is not just an N gauge thing though, and there has been a constant irritant going back years of the brake coaches seemingly built in the same volumes as the other coaches so that you end up with brakes on the discount lists but not a non-brake in sight even at full price.

 

End of the day, you'll never please all of the people all of the time and it's a juggling act by the manufacturers to build enough of something to satisfy demand but not produce too much so that they sit on shelves.  However, people coming to the hobby need those items sat on shelves in order to begin their odyssey.  But that isn't good business practice as whilst they are assets they are unsold and not generating revenue, worse the longer they sit there then the value in them decreases when the retailer is forced to cut the price to realise some value.

[Paul.Uni]

The blue grey mark 1 SK is due 'May/Jun', so I'm expecting that more mark 1 carriages will be announced in May (assuming the release date for the SK doesn't change dramatically).

[scottystitch]

27 minutes ago, McC said:

Like all manufacturers? At least until the next batch, or the one after that :) 

I don’t think that’s really in dispute. What is a problem is the length of time between batches. In the case of maroon Mk1s from Farish, about 5 or 6 years. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

[Roy L S]

10 hours ago, scottystitch said:

I honestly don't think that would be the case. I would suggest that if Farish could issue one new or re-tooled locomotive every twelve or 18 months that would be sufficient for the size of the market, and we wouldn't have ,much cause for complaint.

 

If they could re-issue existing models more often, such as 20s, 25s, 40s, 42s, 47s, Black 5s, Std 5s, (I know it's coming), 8Fs, Princess Coronations, etc., (along with regular supplies of coaching stock, that would go a long way to relieving frustrations.  I don't think the issue is really about brand new items.

 

Best

Scott.

 

Hi Scott

 

I absolutely agree. Bachmann have a huge tooling portfolio of coaches, wagons and locos without adding a single new thing to the range, the problem is that unlike Dapol who are factoring in re-runs of existing N products it doesn't seem like Bachmann have any cohesive strategy at all to do this. When we do see re-runs they are of incredibly "niche" things like NCB Brake vans and oddball Mk1 liveries rather than the mainstream things like maroon Mk1s. 

 

As to locos, I personally doubt we will see any of the earlier "new" BachFarish locos like Black Fives, Jubs, Scots and 4MT Mogul again, in fact I was surprised to see the tender-driven J39 in the new releases. However, it is truly surprising that a re-run of the BR 4MT Tank hasn't been higher on the list, after all there has only been one production run in two liveries - just 2016 in all. You would have thought someone at Bachmann would have recognised this (Of course it could be we will see a sound fitted upgrade someday but anyone's guess when).

 

So yes, without spending another penny on new tooling Bachmann could keep us happier with re-runs of existing models but "bread and butter" liveries not quirky one-offs. I mean why do a Cl20 as "River Sheaf" and not "cooking" BR Green and Blue versions?? Mabe the penny will drop eventually that British N is much more a modeller's scale rather than a collector's one.

 

Roy

[Standards_in_OO]

20 hours ago, Roy L S said:

 

Hi Scott

 

I absolutely agree. Bachmann have a huge tooling portfolio of coaches, wagons and locos without adding a single new thing to the range, the problem is that unlike Dapol who are factoring in re-runs of existing N products it doesn't seem like Bachmann have any cohesive strategy at all to do this. When we do see re-runs they are of incredibly "niche" things like NCB Brake vans and oddball Mk1 liveries rather than the mainstream things like maroon Mk1s. 

 

As to locos, I personally doubt we will see any of the earlier "new" BachFarish locos like Black Fives, Jubs, Scots and 4MT Mogul again, in fact I was surprised to see the tender-driven J39 in the new releases. However, it is truly surprising that a re-run of the BR 4MT Tank hasn't been higher on the list, after all there has only been one production run in two liveries - just 2016 in all. You would have thought someone at Bachmann would have recognised this (Of course it could be we will see a sound fitted upgrade someday but anyone's guess when).

 

So yes, without spending another penny on new tooling Bachmann could keep us happier with re-runs of existing models but "bread and butter" liveries not quirky one-offs. I mean why do a Cl20 as "River Sheaf" and not "cooking" BR Green and Blue versions?? Mabe the penny will drop eventually that British N is much more a modeller's scale rather than a collector's one.

 

Roy

To me things like Black 5s, maroon Mk1s and blue and grey Mk2s should always be in the range. I think it would be incredibly frustrating starting in N now and not being able to easily get hold of everyday items of rolling stock/locos that most people want. 

[woodenhead]

I think we need to remember, planning model train production is not some off the cuff activity, there is no throw some Mk1 moulds onto the machine and turn out a couple of thousand.

 

It probably takes three years from design to production for a new locomotive, so planning a production schedule is probably done three years before the models actually appear.  So imagine Bachmann reading this thread and thinking, good idea we need to produce some more Mk1s - it would probably be at least 2 years before we see them as the production slot has to be agreed with Kader and I doubt Kader will alter a schedule without a good financial reason for doing so.   And even once an item has a slot it is not guarateed to go to production as something else more lucrative or even as in the case of the sealed beam Peaks or 47s to stave off a competitor gaining a march on Bachmann.  This is partly why Bachmann no longer announce very far into the future, they announce what they know is in production and about to ship, manages expectations better and allows them a flexibility they didn't have when announcing things years in advance of the model actually appearing (or not appearing as happened a lot).

[scottystitch]

Yes again I don’t disagree. But I think what’s being asked for is joined up thinking. 
 

now I know it’s not quite as simple as this, but just as a for instance:

 

Farish know they have a class 40 in the pipeline and it will be ready for release in 3 years time. It will be issued in green and blue liveries and is expected to be a good seller.  Because of all of this it might be prudent to schedule a batch or partial batch of maroon and blue/grey coaches. For release at or close to the same time. At least within a year of the class 40.  
 

Farish get sales to those waiting on a 40 and those waiting on coaches. AND potentially those new to n gauge who are looking for a ready to roll train to get started. 
 

Happy days. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by scottystitch

[Roy L S]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I think we need to remember, planning model train production is not some off the cuff activity, there is no throw some Mk1 moulds onto the machine and turn out a couple of thousand.

 

It probably takes three years from design to production for a new locomotive, so planning a production schedule is probably done three years before the models actually appear.  So imagine Bachmann reading this thread and thinking, good idea we need to produce some more Mk1s - it would probably be at least 2 years before we see them as the production slot has to be agreed with Kader and I doubt Kader will alter a schedule without a good financial reason for doing so.   And even once an item has a slot it is not guarateed to go to production as something else more lucrative or even as in the case of the sealed beam Peaks or 47s to stave off a competitor gaining a march on Bachmann.  This is partly why Bachmann no longer announce very far into the future, they announce what they know is in production and about to ship, manages expectations better and allows them a flexibility they didn't have when announcing things years in advance of the model actually appearing (or not appearing as happened a lot).

 

Yes, we are for the most part I am sure aware of the nuances of producing models even from existing tooling, it all needs to be factored into planned production slots, and if new running numbers are involved new artwork/deco samples will need to be signed off before that. However, Dapol seem to manage to pretty regularly manage re-runs of Gresley coaches, A3/A4s etc so that should not be too much of a logistical challenge.

 

None of us actually know precisely what negotiation is involved between Bachmann Industries and the Kader parent's factory as far as production slots go, but I agree it is entirely plausible that certain products are prioritised. However, whether the decision is at the Kader end or Bachmann Europe end we do not know and are speculating. and purely for the sake of discussion, it could just as easily be the MD of Bachmann Europe who makes the call on prioritisation of product manufacture be it new tool or existing. I have mentioned before that I noticed a distinct slow down in the amount of N being delivered after Graham Hubbard retired and David Haarhus took over, this might be coincidence but then again it might not. 

 

What is beyond challenge is that we have seen substantial investment in new OO and OO9 products from Bachmann in recent years but comparatively little in N apart from a few sound upgrades and a couple of MI models, certainly the transition and blue/grey modellers seems to have been particularly poorly served by Bachmann, to the point now where there is currently not a single BR steam locos actually in stock at Barwell!

 

Roy

Edited November 6, 2022 by Roy L S
added sentence

[woodenhead]

@Roy L Sdont forget Bachmann UK had to go to Kernow Models and Heljan for their factory capacity because they could not get anymore from Kader for new products.

[maq1988]

3 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

@Roy L Sdont forget Bachmann UK had to go to Kernow Models and Heljan for their factory capacity because they could not get anymore from Kader for new products.

 

There surely comes a point that if you can't actually get production capacity your business becomes at risk - not that I expect it'd be feasible for Bachmann or any manufacturer to be able to purchase their own equipment now to produce models either in the UK or abroad, PECO being the exception as they seem to already have injection moulding machines.

 

You can't please everyone. I have no interest in Sealink Mk1s or Birdcage stock. I'm sure someone does. It's such an odd mix on the website.

 

I don't know how Bachmann decide on what to do next but maybe just releasing set batches would be useful. Do BR Maroon, then B&C, then Blue&Grey, so on until you get back around. (They may already do this)

[woodenhead]

Given the latest releases it is going to be Blue Grey Mk1s or Swallow Mk2s that are needed first then Maroon for transition.  

Blood and Custard needs some steam releases or people would really say they are taking the mickey.

 

They play their cards close to their chest though these days so who knows what will be announced in February.

[Kris]

8 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Given the latest releases it is going to be Blue Grey Mk1s or Swallow Mk2s that are needed first then Maroon for transition.  

Blood and Custard needs some steam releases or people would really say they are taking the mickey.

 

They play their cards close to their chest though these days so who knows what will be announced in February.

If they follow previous releases we would be luck to see more than one type of coach (in several liveries) and a single wagon + various locos and more Lilliput lane rtp buildings than you can shake a stick at.

[Roy L S]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

If they follow previous releases we would be luck to see more than one type of coach (in several liveries) and a single wagon + various locos and more Lilliput lane rtp buildings than you can shake a stick at.

 

Given the recent track record of building choices I think "RTP" probably means "Ready to Pee"....

[franciswilliamwebb]

5 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

 

Given the recent track record of building choices I think "RTP" probably means "Ready to Pee"....

Perhaps a new Point’n’shoot sub-class is needed😉

[AndyB]

10 hours ago, woodenhead said:

...

They play their cards close to their chest though these days so who knows what will be announced in February.

 

I thought the winter announcement was meant to be the meaty one. In which case we've had the bulk of it for the current 12 months?

[Roy L S]

27 minutes ago, AndyB said:

 

I thought the winter announcement was meant to be the meaty one. In which case we've had the bulk of it for the current 12 months?

Hi Andy

 

I'm not aware that Bachmann have said that but could be I missed it somewhere, certainly this Winter's announcements have not been "bumper" by even the most optimistic person's measure!

 

Roy

[grahame]

12 hours ago, woodenhead said:

 

They play their cards close to their chest though these days so who knows what will be announced in February.

 

I've heard a little whisper that N gauge enthusiasts will be happy with what is planned for the mid year (Summer and Autumn) 2023 announcements next year. Consequently I wouldn't expect much for the Spring (Feb) announcement (CNY, etc.,).

 

We're going to have to be a bit more patient for longer. Extra time to save up, perhaps.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by grahame

[johny retro]

On 02/11/2022 at 11:52, Ed-farms said:

 

Next quarter I reckon, Virgin and InterCity Swallow to match the 90's and the forthcoming 47/8

I'm still trying to find some in original InterCity.

They don't even pop up on a certain online auction site, except for the BSO and RF.