Rapido OO Gauge GWR 44xx/45xx/4575 Small Prairie

[Miss Prism]

2 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

Maybe early GWR or for some BR locos but I was led to believe the official policy was for them was to be painted.

 

It varied on period, year, and shed. Here's 4566 after shopping at Newton, all bright and shiny. A year later it was covered in grime. A year on, it was buffed up again. If there was a typical look in later years, it was an unpainted very dull surface.

 

[Bulwell Hall]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

It varied on period, year, and shed. Here's 4566 after shopping at Newton, all bright and shiny. A year later it was covered in grime. A year on, it was buffed up again. If there was a typical look in later years, it was an unpainted very dull surface.

 

I believe that 4566 was turned out to the high standard shown as she was the last locomotive to be 'shopped' at Newton Abbot 'factory'. There was a commemoration when she emerged from the 'factory' to mark the occasion.  That said I think that it was normal for engines turned out in lined green at this late period to have the SV bonnets polished- at least when they were ex works.

 

Gerry

[The Johnster]

Yes, anachronistic on a small prairie, though some had them unpainted and polished in BR days.  This was probably sone at the sheds  None had copper chimney caps.  
 

I was thinking of cast brass or brass plating for the safety valve bonnets; I can see that turning is bot the sort of operation that sits easily with volume production engineering.   Casting would be better for polishing, as plating would no doubt wear off.  

[rprodgers]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Yes, anachronistic on a small prairie, though some had them unpainted and polished in BR days.  This was probably sone at the sheds  None had copper chimney caps.  
 

I was thinking of cast brass or brass plating for the safety valve bonnets; I can see that turning is bot the sort of operation that sits easily with volume production engineering.   Casting would be better for polishing, as plating would no doubt wear off.  

The copper capped parallel chimneys were replaced on the 45xx s mainly from about the mid 1920s for cast iron slightly flared ones, when other refinements were made (shutters, extended bunkers, parallel buffers).

 

The plating on the Dapol safety valves appears quite robust, too shiny for some but easily toned down if required.

 

Other than pre WW1 days from photos I’ve seen the safety valves (s/v)  on many 45xxs for the majority of their GWR days seem to have generally been painted, as per other secondary class loco.

 

However I am sure I read somewhere that in GW days some individual locos, after a general overhaul, on return to their home sheds (with a painted s/v)  had the paint unofficially removed from the s/v and polished up by enthusiastic crew/cleaners.

 

Yes BR (W) did give some secondary exGW locos like the 45xx the full works of lining and polished safety valves for that short late period of time when cleaners were still available in sufficient numbers.

 

Wishful thinking I know but, to have some variation to the Bachmann 45xxs, it would have been nice to see the Rapido ones depicted as ones from the early batches with the square drop footplate and bunker extension with timber packing out piece.

Edited December 14, 2022 by rprodgers

[Miss Prism]

7 hours ago, rprodgers said:

and bunker extension with timber packing out piece.

 

I'm not sure what the exact method of frame-lengthening construction was, but it definitely wasn't timber!

[rprodgers]

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I'm not sure what the exact method of frame-lengthening construction was, but it definitely wasn't timber!

Again probably my mistake but  I thought I’d read that the initial Wolverhampton series 4500-19 (2161-80) did initially have this 9” distance piece done this way.
Maybe I read the word “beam” and/or confused it with this batch originally having wooden cab roofs as built, that were later changed.

Of the next earlier batches the exceptions 4522, 4525 and 4539 didn’t have this distance piece but the neater curved rear valance.

From 4555 onwards all received full length frames whereas 4530- had curved drop ends as built

The 45xx s that retained square drop ends to the end I have as being : 4500, 03, 04, 07, 12, 15, 16, 18, 20, 25, 29

 

[Hal Nail]

3 hours ago, rprodgers said:

Again probably my mistake but  I thought I’d read that the initial Wolverhampton series 4500-19 (2161-80) did initially have this 9” distance piece done this way.
Maybe I read the word “beam” and/or confused it with this batch originally having wooden cab roofs as built, that were later changed.

Of the next earlier batches the exceptions 4522, 4525 and 4539 didn’t have this distance piece but the neater curved rear valance.

From 4555 onwards all received full length frames whereas 4530- had curved drop ends as built

The 45xx s that retained square drop ends to the end I have as being : 4500, 03, 04, 07, 12, 15, 16, 18, 20, 25, 29

 

We discussed this fairly recently somewhere. I dug out a load of photos and you can see the old buffer beam is still in situ behind the packing piece, with the ATC shoe (where fitted) still bolted to the back of the old buffer beam, not the new one. I don't think the frames are actually extended personally but this is supposition based on those photos.

 

My theory is the 3 or 4 exceptions noted did have proper extensions done and then they decided it was overkill and just used the packing piece after that.

[adb968008]

On 26/11/2022 at 10:46, Paul.Uni said:

2013

 

2021

Dont forget L150 has the pkp air pump and  air pipe acquired in 2007, and a cut down cab roof to operate on LUL.

 

no other prarie has this.

it still had the full roof on 2007 in Poland, but obviously with air pipes, air pump and British / Polish flags.

 

May 2007

 

its sound file would be a little unique.

 

Ive a lot of happy memories with this loco….

Some called this biala bocian (white Stalk) as it produced white smoke consistently good steaming, against the black stuff of Polish locos.

 

much silliness in 2007 (turn your volume lower!)

 

 

and a bit of sadness at its early return home.. check out the acceleration of this…, no speed limits for 5521 in Poland, it was in gauge, no weight restriction anywhere, regular mid50’s running.

2009

recreate this…

2 of these locos are in British liveries, but only one is British.

May 2008

 

At one point it was going to have “ Great Western” changed to “Wielki Zachódna” 

 

I did get some pictures of its journey home, including packing its suitcase… (on the buffer beam)

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by adb968008

[Dan Hamblin]

Had a very enjoyable cab ride on it, as L150, on the Watford to Amersham run as part of the Watford 90 shuttles in 2015. Whilst I like the Bachman version sold by the LTM, the original cab does detract from it somewhat.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[checkrail]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

it still had the full roof on 2007 in Poland

A Prairie in Poland! Wow - I had no idea!  Looks great.

[The Johnster]

5521's European tour was something of an epic for a modest and somewhat 'ordinary' little steam engine.  It visited Poland and Hungary, where it piloted the VSOE between Budapest and a place called Keleti.  It then returned to Poland where, in addition to it's parade/excursion duties, it was used on sevice commuter trains between Wroclaw and Jeltz Lacowice, 30 stops a trip at emu timings requiring fierce acceleration (there were no speed limits applied to it in Poland) for 9-day at a time periods between boiler washouts.  It ran faultlessly throughout this tour and on several occasions when double-heading specials hauled failed locomotives as well as the train. 

 

Pocket Rocket!

Edited December 18, 2022 by The Johnster

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

5521's European tour was something of an epic for a modest and somewhat 'ordinary' little steam engine.  It visited Poland and Hungary, where it piloted the VSOE between Budapest and a place called Keleti.  It then returned to Poland where, in addition to it's parade/excursion duties, it was used on sevice commuter trains between Wroclaw and Jeltz Lacowice, 30 stops a trip at emu timings requiring fierce acceleration (there were no speed limits applied to it in Poland) for 9-day at a time periods between boiler washouts.  It ran faultlessly throughout this tour and on several occasions when double-heading specials hauled failed locomotives as well as the train. 

 

Pocket Rocket!

The VSOE run was unplanned, it just happened to be right place at right time. The engine was taking part in the MAV Nostalgia grand prix event which steam crews from across Eastern Europe attended. 5521 and crew won it !

The loco ran from Budapest Keleti station to Fusti ( a few miles out of Budapest ) on the VSOE.

The loco also was in Slovakia too.
 

I looked into trying to hire it for my wedding, in 2008, complete with a tank wagon, with pipe from Chabowka.. that was a beer tank and fed into a bar carriage.
 

The loco ran flawlessly, indeed ratchetted on its running plate on the way back were the spares (inc springs etc) they took out with it.

 

There was a plan at looking at two much bigger locos also going out there, but the credit crunch put pay to that, and ultimately why it returned.

 

Bydgoszcz Roundhouse May 2009.

 

The loco was only restricted to linespeed, the Flour-mill crew were pretty much left to look after the loco as is and run as fit. The trips I was on it, there was no pkp crew on the footplate. (indeed I was the only polish speaker on the footplate on one part of a trip), though at Stations/Shed moves a shed hand joined them. Route knowledge was somewhat assumed, though WE had a youngster who was an enthusiastic translator and carried the paperwork, and no doubt having the time of his life in this job.

There was some primitive ways of coaling the loco…

 

yes that is the removed roof portion of a box van, upended, filled with coal, which promptly v- shaped under the weight when lifted…

 

I had 5 encounters with this loco in Poland between May 2007 and May 2009.

 

 

I think this makes a good pub quiz guess the location picture…

 

(though obviously on this thread its a bit of a giveaway).

Wolsztyn roundhouse Summer 2008.

 

Easy to guess which number my model of this prarie will renumbered…

Edited December 18, 2022 by adb968008

[Hal Nail]

Does anyone know where the pet pipe attached inside the cab?

 

 

[Halls and Prairies]

On 18/12/2022 at 22:40, Hal Nail said:

Does anyone know where the pet pipe attached inside the cab?

 

 

I bet it varies from loco to loco but of the one I am familiar with (from memory) typically fireman’s side, mounted on the inside of the tank, maybe halfway between back of the tank and the back head, about knee height. 

[The Stationmaster]

On 18/12/2022 at 22:40, Hal Nail said:

Does anyone know where the pet pipe attached inside the cab?

 

 

On some engines the valve for the pep pipe was mounted on thecab side sheet near the seat on the Fireman's side. (always on the Fireman's side of the cab).   Use this page to guide you and you can point your cursor at the valve on the side sheet to get an explanation -

 

https://www.gwsr.com/enthusiasts/miscellaneous/Interactive_Footplate.html

Edited December 21, 2022 by The Stationmaster

[Halls and Prairies]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

On some engines the valve for the pep pipe was mounted on thecab side sheet near the seat on the Fireman's side. (always on the Fireman's side of the cab).   Use this page to guide you and you can point your cursor at the valve on the side sheet to get an explanation -

 

https://www.gwsr.com/enthusiasts/miscellaneous/Interactive_Footplate.html

With most engines, yes. If we are specifically talking about small prairies, the tanks extend back to the cab doorway, hence not possible. 

[The Johnster]

TTBOMK this applies to all GWR side tank engines, certainly to prairies of both sizes, 56xx, and the 8-coupled tanks.  It further restricted the space in what was already not a generous area to swing a shovel in.

Edited December 21, 2022 by The Johnster

[SteamingWales]

CADs in the newsletter look great and nice to see the 4575 show it's face too!

 

Not sure it was mentioned anywhere but do I spot an autotrain equipment cover on the last image in the newsletter?

[The Johnster]

Looking at the CADs, I can’t help wondering, are we going to get the first RTR GW tank engines with sliding cab shutters that actually slide?  The roof vent on my Baccy 3MT tank actually slides…

[brumtb]

As long as there is a version without shutters at all, as well!

Happy Christmas

[Graham_Muz]

On 18/12/2022 at 08:23, Dan Hamblin said:

Had a very enjoyable cab ride on it, as L150, on the Watford to Amersham run as part of the Watford 90 shuttles in 2015. Whilst I like the Bachman version sold by the LTM, the original cab does detract from it somewhat.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

Her original cab still exists at her home at the Flower Mill in the Forest of Dean, and could be fitted again if and when required. 

[Hal Nail]

21 hours ago, The Johnster said:

are we going to get the first RTR GW tank engines with sliding cab shutters that actually slide?

the Lionheart 7mm ones do!

[Halvarras]

Confirmation that 4574 was in unlined green livery during its final year(s):

 

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/latest-input--news--old-pictures-etc

 

'Latest Input....' 2nd January 2023, Michael L. Roach article, 3rd photo down......

 

A series of articles by Michael on his experiences during the last week of services on the Launceston and Tavistock branch exactly 60 years ago, culminating in the final day's workings being badly affected by blizzard conditions, appeared on the CRS website during December, and have been a great read. Another loco used during that last week, 5569, was also in unlined green, with the appropriate larger BR late crest.

[Miss Prism]

ISTR one of the 44s having a bunker with a sloping back (a la 1361 class)?

 

[rprodgers]

On 24/12/2022 at 22:32, The Johnster said:

Looking at the CADs, I can’t help wondering, are we going to get the first RTR GW tank engines with sliding cab shutters that actually slide?  The roof vent on my Baccy 3MT tank actually slides…

Its a vain hope but would be good if some of the 45xx were produced without cab shutters.

Edited January 7, 2023 by rprodgers