Hornby 2023 - New tooling - DELTIC prototype - Hornby Dublo

[Roddy Angus]

Asked at the Hornby stand at Scotrail and the suggestion that the Deltic had been cancelled was news to them.

 

Roddy

 

 

 

[spamcan61]

26 minutes ago, Roddy Angus said:

Asked at the Hornby stand at Scotrail and the suggestion that the Deltic had been cancelled was news to them.

 

Roddy

 

 

 

I think we can say with 90%+ certainty the Deltic had sold out long before Hattons were able to offer them, so why they were apparently available to pre-order is baffling. Only other scenario I can think of, as intimated earlier, is the limited edition number being increased, but then I'd expect them to be available from Hornby web site not Hattons 

[frobisher]

6 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

I think we can say with 90%+ certainty the Deltic had sold out long before Hattons were able to offer them, so why they were apparently available to pre-order is baffling. Only other scenario I can think of, as intimated earlier, is the limited edition number being increased, but then I'd expect them to be available from Hornby web site not Hattons 

 

Are we overlooking the obvious here in that the reason it is no longer available from the Hornby site is because they have no more to sell from the production batch after the orders from retailers have are taken into account? The retailers will be showing available to pre-order until they have sold their allocation obviously.

[spamcan61]

14 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

Are we overlooking the obvious here in that the reason it is no longer available from the Hornby site is because they have no more to sell from the production batch after the orders from retailers have are taken into account? The retailers will be showing available to pre-order until they have sold their allocation obviously.

That's exactly what I was trying to say, but that happened before Hattons even got a sniff of them 

[Ian Hargrave]

20 hours ago, Roddy Angus said:

Asked at the Hornby stand at Scotrail and the suggestion that the Deltic had been cancelled was news to them.

 

Roddy

 

 

 

This has been Hattons go to position for  years when they can’t supply .Nothing unusual or sinister here.

[GordonC]

On 24/02/2023 at 21:07, spamcan61 said:

That's exactly what I was trying to say, but that happened before Hattons even got a sniff of them 

 

Is Hattons not meant to be in one of the lower retailer 'tiers' so last in the pecking order for getting a share to sell? not sure if thats changed recently

[Paul.Uni]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

Is Hattons not meant to be in one of the lower retailer 'tiers' so last in the pecking order for getting a share to sell? not sure if thats changed recently

As far as we can tell it has. For full speculation go to the Tier thread and read the posts made in the last two weeks.

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby are going to produce another run of the Hornby Dublo Deltic to satisfy the demand. It was advertised in the Hornby catalogue as 500 models only but if more than 500 people want the model it makes sense to provide some more models for them.

[Bulleidboy100]

What do you think the price will be by Winter 2024/25?

[Michael Hodgson]

6 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

What do you think the price will be by Winter 2024/25?

Good question.  They sent me an email today trying to get me to pre-order

DCC ready £320.99

Sound fitted £350.99

 

Only £30 for a sound decoder ??  You'd pay more than that for a basic non-sound one these days.

So is there some subtlety here that I'm missing?

 

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Good question.  They sent me an email today trying to get me to pre-order

DCC ready £320.99

Sound fitted £350.99

 

Only £30 for a sound decoder ??  You'd pay more than that for a basic non-sound one these days.

So is there some subtlety here that I'm missing?

 

They are increasing the production run to meet the demand, rather than another run.

They did sell out pretty quickly, so I guess it makes sense.

The decoder will be the triplex type so not as sophisticated as as those with more sound file capabilities. But why not get sound if it is to be DCC anyway. It will be compatible with the HM700 which Hornby will be trying to promote.

It will certainly need to be superior model for that price.

 

[adb968008]

 

I like Dublo for the collectibility aspect, and its novelty value… its a premium priced product.

But Now its limited to as many as they can sell…

its gone mainstream.

 

To me Dublo was Quality not Quantity.

 

So if its just a £350 loco in a blue box, the i’m going to take the mug off my head and put this model back on the shelf, as theres nothing special about it now, if everyones going to be selling it, why rush ?

 

I understand why they did it, but there are multiple ways to do it (copy Bachmann, as they did it first anyway).

 

I wonder if the new CSM tool will be saying put everything in a blue box striped Dublo box and double the rrp?

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by adb968008

[Bulleidboy100]

Sound version has already sold-out again.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

I like Dublo for the collectibility aspect, and its novelty value… its a premium priced product.

But Now its limited to as many as they can sell…

its gone mainstream.

 

To me Dublo was Quality not Quantity.

 

So if its just a £350 loco in a blue box, the i’m going to take the mug off my head and put this model back on the shelf, as theres nothing special about it now, if everyones going to be selling it, why rush ?

 

I understand why they did it, but there are multiple ways to do it (copy Bachmann, as they did it first anyway).

 

I wonder if the new CSM tool will be saying put everything in a blue box striped Dublo box and double the rrp?

 

 

It does seem an odd marketing approach to turn a limited run premium level model into something which ceases to be a limited run model.  The cachet of exclusivity - which undoubtedly appeals to some (perhaps many?) buyers and helps to sustain a high purchase price surely becomes devalued when more og f them are ho going to be made than was originally announced?

 

Seems they got it wrong yet again with the model clearly being under=priced if it sold out fairly quickly.

[Fireline]

3 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

Sound version has already sold-out again.

Poorly worded email, as I understand it. There was no increase to the sound version numbers.

[zr2498]

2 hours ago, Fireline said:

Poorly worded email, as I understand it. There was no increase to the sound version numbers.

Just wondering where that information re no extra sound fitted models came from.

I saw none on Hornby site, googled and managed to find a sound fitted version from a retailer. That might have been a lucky one off, as no more available from them?

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

Just wondering where that information re no extra sound fitted models came from.

I saw none on Hornby site, googled and managed to find a sound fitted version from a retailer. That might have been a lucky one off, as no more available from them?

it was sent out in an email.

 

It does seen a bit like cautiously increases batches…

 

it started out as 500 (iirc)

Then there was a sound version (dont know the volume)

Now theres more of both available..

Now sound sold out, i wonder if a further tranche will be announced ?

 

 

Is it possible they are batching up in installments until they see a demand plateau ?

 

There would be some logic in this approach, i’d just prefer it not done like that in dublo…especially as it was initially presented as a limited edition/ something special… after all its priced that way…

 

imagine if you buy a single cask whisky, then later find theres a second single cask, and a third.. all identical… bottle label declaring it bottle number 2531 of 500 ?

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by adb968008

[rogerzilla]

So it's exactly like the purple WC - makes more money for Hornby, but shafts the buyers of the first batch, who presumably looked at the high price and decided its limited run would make it worthwhile in terms of future value.

[cctransuk]

34 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

So it's exactly like the purple WC - makes more money for Hornby, but shafts the buyers of the first batch, who presumably looked at the high price and decided its limited run would make it worthwhile in terms of future value.

 

Anyone who buys model trains as an 'investment' takes the same risk as with any other type of investment.

 

Availability can go up and down - and with it, the 'value' of the 'investment'.

 

Me? I don't gamble!

 

CJI.

[GordonC]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

It does seem an odd marketing approach to turn a limited run premium level model into something which ceases to be a limited run model.  The cachet of exclusivity - which undoubtedly appeals to some (perhaps many?) buyers and helps to sustain a high purchase price surely becomes devalued when more og f them are ho going to be made than was originally announced?

 

Seems they got it wrong yet again with the model clearly being under=priced if it sold out fairly quickly.

 

money talks ... why make 500 if you can sell 1000 🤷‍♀️

 

Can £320 for DCC Ready ever be considered underpriced???

[cctransuk]

8 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

money talks ... why make 500 if you can sell 1000 🤷‍♀️

 

Can £320 for DCC Ready ever be considered underpriced???

 

Too many people, with too much money, chasing too little cachet!

 

Got a lot in common with 🦊hunting, I suppose! 😂

 

CJI.

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

 

Can £320 for DCC Ready ever be considered underpriced???

No - that's why the DCC ready are still available to preorder on the Hornby site.

The £350 with DCC and sound might be just about acceptable?

[Vistisen]

3 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

So it's exactly like the purple WC - makes more money for Hornby, but shafts the buyers of the first batch, who presumably looked at the high price and decided its limited run would make it worthwhile in terms of future value.

Unless Hornby have promised that they will never make another batch, then nobody has the right to feel that they have been shafted. It seems to me that if Hornby know they can sell more of a sold-out model and do not do so, then they are just asking to go bankrupt. One might even be positive about a Hornby decision for once and say that that are helping those who wanted to buy the first time round but missed out. They probably think that they are making models for enthusiasts, rather than offering investment opportunities.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Vistisen

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Vistisen said:

Unless Hornby have promised that they will never make another batch, then nobody has the right to feel that they have been shafted. It seems to me that if Hornby know they can sell more of a sold-out model and do not do so, then they are just asking to go bankrupt. One might even be positive about a Hornby decision for once and say that that are helping those who wanted to buy the first time round but missed out. They probably think that they are making models for enthusiasts, rather than offering investment opportunities.

I dont think anyone considered Hornby never to make a future batch, with some variation.

But when they advertise it as limited edition… you would expect it to be limited, especially as has now sold out three times.

 

if its not limited, then drop that tag, as its unlimited, clearly they dont intend it to be, and demand is high enough to not warrant it either.

 

its not about investment (lord knows this hobby has never been that.. ) if something becomes rare, someone else will rock up with a new tooling of it. (That actually is exactly what Hornby has done in this instance).

 

Collecting and Investing are different things… collectors collect, and often buy into something limited as its fear of missing out… the risk as demonstrated many times, is if there is no fear… then they wont miss out.. so they stop buying.

 

Dublo (unless I am off base, comes across as a collectors brand, not an investors one, but one that could be infiltrated by  speculators.. who may rush in early, but can get fright very easily, leaving someone holding the baby).

 

This is about confidence in the brand, and not taking loyalty for granted (orders are easily canceled).

 

Lledo serves as a warning from history of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lledo#Company_fate

Quote

Although shipping high volumes of product, the company could not compete against low cost producers from Hong Kong and China who also entered the special promotions market with high quality products. As a result, Lledo went bankrupt in 1999, and the naming rights and model range were bought by Corgi Classics which continued producing Lledo models in China until 2005, when the remaining models were merged into the Corgi Classics range.
 

(Corgi value was written down this year too).
 

Low cost, high quality products coming from China from increasing numbers of competitors is that not exactly what is repeating in model railways right now ?

Edited June 29, 2023 by adb968008

[GordonC]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I dont think anyone considered Hornby never to make a future batch, with some variation.

But when they advertise it as limited edition… you would expect it to be limited, especially as has now sold out three times.

 

if its not limited, then drop that tag, as its unlimited, clearly they dont intend it to be, and demand is high enough to not warrant it either.

 

its not about investment (lord knows this hobby has never been that.. ) if something becomes rare, someone else will rock up with a new tooling of it. (That actually is exactly what Hornby has done in this instance).

 

Collecting and Investing are different things… collectors collect, and often buy into something limited as its fear of missing out… the risk as demonstrated many times, is if there is no fear… then they wont miss out.. so they stop buying.

 

Dublo (unless I am off base, comes across as a collectors brand, not an investors one, but one that could be infiltrated by  speculators.. who may rush in early, but can get fright very easily, leaving someone holding the baby).

 

This is about confidence in the brand, and not taking loyalty for granted (orders are easily canceled).

 

Lledo serves as a warning from history of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lledo#Company_fate

(Corgi value was written down this year too).
 

Low cost, high quality products coming from China from increasing numbers of competitors is that not exactly what is repeating in model railways right now ?

 

How 'limited' do you consider it to be a 'limited edition'? There must be an awful lot of catalogue releases now which will be pretty 'limited' in production numbers too, so whats the difference - a bit of paper in the box for a certificate and does it really matter if that has 500 written on it or 1000? Is it wrong to increase production if they greatly underestimated demand and have loads of disappointed buyers - I dont see why when its probably over a year from delivery so the only people which could complain would be investors that want the limited numbers to pump up values.