Hornby 2023 - New tooling - DELTIC prototype - Hornby Dublo

[RedgateModels]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

You will find very few exhibitors, who move stock around and pack and unpack it a lot*, who would agree with you. My stuff lives in nice wooden storage boxes which can hold the maximum amount of locos in the smallest space. Judging by the number of people who compalin about getting things out of the boxes in the first place, I'd suggest they would be better with a solution not aimed at getting the model safely from the other side of the world too.

 

*I once exhibited opposite a Z gauge layout where they stock went back in its individual boxes. He was still doing this 2 hours after the show closed. In the hall on his own.

 

Agreed, when I fist exhibited Summat Colliery the 16 tonners went back into their original Bachmann boxes. Didn't take me long to come up with this...

 

 

 

In this case, as I'd effectively destroyed the ice cube packaging I threw away the card boxes (James May would be proud 🤣

Edited January 20, 2023 by RedgateModels

[Ravenser]

15 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

The whole reason for the Drax biomass wagons being £83 each when first released was because 2000 were produced, 1000 for Drax to give away as corporate freebies while only 1000 were sold. When you bought one, you were essentially paying for a freebie that wasn't coming to you.

 

 

I can't believe that Drax got their wagons free. They must have shouldered the cost of their half.

[AY Mod]

Just now, Ravenser said:

They must have shouldered the cost of their half.

 

Now there's no way you can possibly know that; please stop making assertions that you haven't got any evidence for. It could have been that it was their 'price' for giving information and access to the wagons but that's just me surmising from conversations with relevant parties at the time (rather than guessing).

[Ravenser]

25 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Now there's no way you can possibly know that; please stop making assertions that you haven't got any evidence for. It could have been that it was their 'price' for giving information and access to the wagons but that's just me surmising from conversations with relevant parties at the time (rather than guessing).

 

I was once aware of a corporate giveaway deal involving a container freight operator, sponsors of names and a manufacturer (not Hornby) . Basically if they were naming a loco for you , then you could order a specific number of models of the vehicle , numbered and named for your loco, from the manufacturer , as a corporate giveaway. They would then do a run in your number /name - and the balance of the models were sold in the general market.

 

But you certainly had to pay for your models . I can't remember the price - if I was told - and it would no doubt be wholesale price or better. But the models didn't come free.

 

(As it happens , we hadn't a clue what we were doing with the things , and I ended up with two of them for nothing .....)

 

So I am rather struggling with the idea of Company A approaching Company B saying "we want you to make us a cororate giveaway, specially developed . But we want it for free."  It doesn't seem very good business: corporate giveaways normally have to be bought

Edited January 20, 2023 by Ravenser

[woodenhead]

I'm not really interested in a Hornby Dublo Deltic prototype, but I am certainly not interested in what materials a mould is made from and what corporate freebies or otherwise have been offered over the years.

 

I am fairly sure those wanting to discuss a new Duble Prototype Deltic are not that bothered either  and would prefer to be discussing or awaiting updates on the actual model the OP is about.

[5Dublo2]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

I would expect that dc running would be disabled in the TXS decoders, or they'd take off like a startled rabbit when placed on a track using the 'dc controller turned up to max' approach?

A very good thought and I think you might be correct - this fancy Bluetooth plus NRMA compliant DCC decoder is likely to have more than one gotcha to be aware of.

 

[Bulleidboy100]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

I can't believe that Drax got their wagons free. They must have shouldered the cost of their half.

Interestingly there is an article in the latest The Collector magazine, where Beatties (who bought the Bassett-Lowke shops) ordered from Hornby 3000 yellow (5 plank) wagons with the address of four Beatties shops printed on the wagons. These were to be given away, free, to anyone buying a Hornby train set. The cost £0.15p per wagon. This was in 1973 - are there any still out there??

[Michael Hodgson]

9 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

Interestingly there is an article in the latest The Collector magazine, where Beatties (who bought the Bassett-Lowke shops) ordered from Hornby 3000 yellow (5 plank) wagons with the address of four Beatties shops printed on the wagons. These were to be given away, free, to anyone buying a Hornby train set. The cost £0.15p per wagon. This was in 1973 - are there any still out there??

ooh - scarce & collectable!!

 

Bet you'd pay more than 15p today

 

If I'd had one it would have been repainted immediately to look like a proper wagon.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Michael Hodgson

[GordonC]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

I can't believe that Drax got their wagons free. They must have shouldered the cost of their half.

 

Apparently that was the condition for using the Drax design and artwork that it was cost-neutral for them ... i.e. they got 1000 free while Hornby made another 1000 that were bought and paid for the whole lot. It certainly makes sense when you consider the price of the sold ones

Edited January 20, 2023 by GordonC

[jjb1970]

If an agreement works for both parties then it works for both parties. If Hornby treated a huge load of freebies to Drax as part of their development cost, sold all stock and made a profit from them (they didn't linger) then all good from their perspective. And Drax would have gotten a load of freebies to give away. Everyone wins, even the customers for the simple reason that if they bought the wagons they obviously considered the price acceptable and got a product they wanted.

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Agreed, but not everybody takes layouts and their rolling stock to shows.  If you have more stock than will fit on your layout (ring any bells with anybody?) then you need to keep some of it safely elsewhere.  It's not a hassle to put the items you're not currently using back into the original box and it protects them from dust and more importantly from accidental damage.

 

And if there's the possibility that at some future date you might want to sell certain items, for some unaccountable reason the box improves the price you'll get and again, it's ideal as part of the packaging you'll need to use if you're selling by post.

I can’t be the only one who likes to dig out all my LMS models and run them with the occasional visitor from the GWR or LNER and after a while swap to the LNER or the GWR or the Southern or even diesels and electrics.

[No Decorum]

On 18/01/2023 at 23:43, Hilux5972 said:

Why do people insist on suggesting that anyone who purchases a Dublo loco won’t run it! 

I haven’t any Dublo models. Even though I began with my (much) elder brother’s clockwork A4, I don’t feel any compulsion to buy an A4. However, a locomotive with a metal body would appeal to me because the weight should give good traction and electrical contact. It has been suggested that paint sits better on a metal body than on a plastic one but the plastic tender of the steamers would be a let down. Any temptation I do feel is rapidly quashed by other, cheaper models appearing in great variety. A diecast Flying Scotsman versus a Sonic A5? A DP1 versus a Dapol 59? No contest!

[andyman7]

5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Thanks for that. TTS fitted models cannot run on DC analogue. Am I correct in my assumption that the same will apply to TXS or is this as yet unknown? 

Older TTS models can albeit without sound (or at least silent DC running can be switched on or off via CV29) - it's the more recent ones that can't

Edited January 20, 2023 by andyman7

[RyanN91]

I didn't even realise that Hatton's had added the Hornby 2023 range even though their allocated stock is now unfortunately sold out for everything? 

 

They didn't list the 2022 range when it was originally announced, a shame really as I wonder how many missed pre orders retailers have missed? I didn't receive any emails about the 2023 range either. Nor did I about  the 2022 range. 

 

I wonder if they will get more allocated stock when the models arrive? Like they did with the Class 91s APT-Ps MK4s etc.

Although last and this year they did recive much more stock of the 2020 2021 and 2022 ranges. I like to support as many independent retailers as possible and I spread my pre orders through many retailers across the UK.

[Phil Parker]

4 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

Interestingly there is an article in the latest The Collector magazine, where Beatties (who bought the Bassett-Lowke shops) ordered from Hornby 3000 yellow (5 plank) wagons with the address of four Beatties shops printed on the wagons. These were to be given away, free, to anyone buying a Hornby train set. The cost £0.15p per wagon. This was in 1973 - are there any still out there??

 

 

They aren't uncommon, examples pop up on ebay about once a month, and they can sometimes be found on second-hand stalls.

 

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

If I'd had one it would have been repainted immediately to look like a proper wagon.

 

You'd have to sand the lettering away first - it appears to have been applied with a branding iron.

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

The whole reason for the Drax biomass wagons being £83 each when first released was because 2000 were produced, 1000 for Drax to give away as corporate freebies while only 1000 were sold. When you bought one, you were essentially paying for a freebie that wasn't coming to you.

I cant find a Hornby source saying 2000 was made in this second run, but Oilivias trains are saying this recent limited edition was 500… that would suggest 2 “R” numbers of twin packs put this recent run at 2000 also.

Whilst only half were sold by Hattons on the first run, I guess there was nothing stopping those recieving ones from Drax in selling those also.

However ebay sales seem healthy, many of those suspiciously look like retailers in private sellers clothing, and explain why theres so many more about.

As thats it.. I suspect they wont last much longer, as people will most likely need more than 1 pack.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by adb968008

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

 

 

 

I've not got one of those but I do have some sandpaper although it looks to me more like a 16T mineral than a 5-plank open. 

Will you accept 15p for it ?😁

 

 

I remember using three of those shops but didn't know the one by Southgate Underground station.

[maico]

I ordered this version which was £322.50 applying a readily available promo code floating around on the interweb. I'm assuming I can run it DDC sound with my existing DCC equipment?

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/Hornby-dublo-br-english-electric-dp1-co-co-dp1-deltic-era-4-sound-fitted-r30297txs?_br_psugg_q=deltic

 

 

 

[spamcan61]

6 minutes ago, maico said:

I ordered this version which was £322.50 applying a readily available promo code floating around on the interweb. I'm assuming I can run it DDC sound with my existing DCC equipment?

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/Hornby-dublo-br-english-electric-dp1-co-co-dp1-deltic-era-4-sound-fitted-r30297txs?_br_psugg_q=deltic

 

 

 

Crikey the 'Product Info' on that page reads like it's been machine translated from Klingon.

[Ravenser]

27 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I cant find a Hornby source saying 2000 was made in this second run, but Oilivias trains are saying this recent limited edition was 500… that would suggest 2 “R” numbers of twin packs put this recent run at 2000 also.

Whilst only half were sold by Hattons on the first run, I guess there was nothing stopping those recieving ones from Drax in selling those also.

However ebay sales seem healthy, many of those suspiciously look like retailers in private sellers clothing, and explain why theres so many more about.

As thats it.. I suspect they wont last much longer, as people will most likely need more than 1 pack.

 

 

 

I think 2000 was the figure being floated for the first run - 1000 Hornby /1000 Drax

 

What the recent run was  is guesswork . But a single retailer appears to have recieved over 100 x 2 wagon packs:

 

On 24/12/2022 at 11:15, TomScrut said:

Anyone wanting some, give KJB Models a ring at 12, just seen this

 

 

That appears to be at least 6 piles, each 4 packs wide and at least 5 packs high. More than 120 packs visible

 

I'm sure there are more than nine tier 1 retailers

 

Drax Biomass wagons have moved out of the "small volume limited edition" into the mass market

 

The original point of all this was that the first run of the Drax wagons was clearly pretty small - and very highly priced , presumably to recover all the tooling and development cost and perhaps whatever was agreed with Drax

 

If the Prototype Deltic is a one off model , it too will have to recover all tooling costs from this release.

 

A release of just 500 models seems impossibly low for a loco model from entirely new tooling . Even 1500 (500 DC / 500 DCC Fitted / 500 TXS Sound) seems very low for the numbers to stack up and justify making it

 

The other possibility is that Hornby expect to re-run this Dublo model in some form-  as they have re-run the Drax wagons

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

I'm sure there are more than nine tier 1 retailers

 

A lot more. I think most dealers I am aware of ended up with some.

 

I do expect KJB ordered as many as they could get their hands on as these will have been especially popular with their customers as these wagons run literally past their shop if you weren't aware.

Edited January 20, 2023 by TomScrut

[Legend]

10 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Not necessarily. The latest Bachmann offerings allow dcc sound use on dc analogue.I get quite reasonable response from a Gaugemaster Combi from position 4 and really excellent sound. 

Do you get a reasonable top speed Ian? I’ve been told that sound fitted DCC locos actually go very slowly when run on DC 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

If the Prototype Deltic is a one off model , it too will have to recover all tooling costs from this release.

 

A release of just 500 models seems impossibly low for a loco model from entirely new tooling . Even 1500 (500 DC / 500 DCC Fitted / 500 TXS Sound) seems very low for the numbers to stack up and justify making it

 

The other possibility is that Hornby expect to re-run this Dublo model in some form-  as they have re-run the Drax wagons

On this we agree.

Dont forget even if we get DC, DCC, DCC Sound, TXS versions this year…

 

we can get the Deltic 1955-2025 70th anniversary repitition of all the above, the the 2030 75th…

 

Then theres the Deltic as run on the WCML blue version, the EE factory blue, the modified cantrail cream colour version, the red bufferbeam modified version… 

then you can do weathered of all of the above.

Its only limited to as many as they can sell.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by adb968008

[RedgateModels]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

On this we agree.

Dont forget even if we get DC, DCC, DCC Sound, TXS versions this year…

 

we can get the Deltic 1955-2025 70th anniversary repitition of all the above, the the 2030 75th…

 

Then theres the Deltic as run on the WCML blue version, the EE factory blue, the modified cantrail cream colour version, the red bufferbeam modified version… 

then you can do weathered of all of the above.

Its only limited to as many as they can sell.

 

 

 Don’t forget the fabled EE House style green and cream …..

[Anoldpom]

On 15/01/2023 at 16:46, Anoldpom said:

I shall pass on this model much as I love the thought of a cast meta Deltic. I doubt if some of my baseboards would stand up to the weight of it!

 

Besides I have my old Kitmaster on a Lima chassis just nicely run in after 40 odd years. Those were the days.................

I just wanted to add to this story from a few pages back. If you look closely at the original picture you can see the cab has a driver and secondman fitted. I found this picture showing how they were fitted. I am fairly certain the seats came from an American Tyco kit of a diner or some such establishment. It really was great fun building this. I believe Dapol re-released the Deltic kit as well so there must be a few still out there. A good friend of mine motorised the Beyer Garret, now that was a feat! I wonder how many motorised Kitmasters are still running..........