Hornby, A Model World. Series 2.

[maico]

6 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

 

 

Finally no mention of the assembly process or where it's done (vague reference to India).  It's as though a pretty CAD picture magically becomes a fully finished model or a set of sprues when someone opens a cardboard box.....

 

Yes, I know I'm an engineer, but surely the whole concept would be of interest - there are after all quite a lot of 'How it's Made' shows.

 

That is what I was planning to post. It is a fly-on-the-wall entertainment made on a shoestring but there is no reason the production can't ask Hornby to request a few shots of their stuff in production from the factory in China. Smartphone or DSLR footage of tooling, injection molding, painting, and assembly would be fine for short cutaway shots.

The series has a generous running time so cutting out so superfluous Hornby canteen shots and repetition would tighten things up and leave room to show how things are manufactured.

In the meantime here is the UK factory Hornby use to make some Airfix kits.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by maico

[john new]

On 09/03/2023 at 10:58, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

 

 

Moving slightly off topic if I may, has anyone experimented to improve existing old fashioned smoke units i.e. the Seuthe type. Do different oils produce better smoke effects?

I recall yonks ago someone at York Show had a Welsh dragon in/on a mountain. Asked what the smoke generator was using if my memory hasn’t failed me I got the answer sun-screen. Looked good but stank so badly I have never followed that idea up.  

[melmerby]

There was a howler tonight when they mentioned the Turbomotive was wrecked in a crash and showed the mangled wreck of "Princess Anne"

No. The locomotive that was previously the Turbomotive was wrecked in the crash.

 

 

 

[Legend]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

There was a howler tonight when they mentioned the Turbomotive was wrecked in a crash and showed the mangled wreck of "Princess Anne"

No. The locomotive that was previously the Turbomotive was wrecked in the crash.

 

 

 

 

Shouldnt get steamed up over it (no pun intended) but this is what annoys me about this program  where details are skimmed over but its ok because its entertainment .  

 

Overall I thought a decent program . I had the original 1/24 Spitfire but I had to get my Dad to do the engine.  I really wouldn't fancy doing the new one ! Is it an age thing or am I just too impatient ? 432 parts to the whole thing   eek 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Legend

[Metr0Land]

16 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

The design process both for Airfix and Hornby is very simplistically presented.  Almost as though a few photos taken of prototypes is all it takes!  No mention of research using manufacturers' drawings and specifications, which surely would be of interest!  Also no mention of the design process to ascertain the individual pieces to be moulded or the tool design.

 

 

 

To be fair, the next(?) prog about development of the new Black Five shows a lot of browsing books/taking pics etc etc, but then later in the show when they have a running prototype does say something along the lines of 'we're now back a year later'.

 

As mentioned upstream, the prog is about family entertainment (which I think it does well and shows the hobby in a good light) rather than detail, detail, detail.  Last night's prog showed how a teenage son had got his mother (jewellery maker by trade and father, cabinet maker by trade) all involved in making a large layout which involved knocking holes in walls as well as both parents helping with the build - true family bonding.

[Metr0Land]

Just 2 'iconics' last night excluding the intro/outro.  Mind you they were talking about the Spitfire so can be forgiven I think.

[Legend]

10 hours ago, maico said:

 

That is what I was planning to post. It is a fly-on-the-wall entertainment made on a shoestring but there is no reason the production can't ask Hornby to request a few shots of their stuff in production from the factory in China. Smartphone or DSLR footage of tooling, injection molding, painting, and assembly would be fine for short cutaway shots.

The series has a generous running time so cutting out so superfluous Hornby canteen shots and repetition would tighten things up and leave room to show how things are manufactured.

In the meantime here is the UK factory Hornby use to make some Airfix kits.

 

 

 

Thats was absolutely fascinating . To me thats what should be in the program as it shows the tech behind producing the model , and I dont think that would lose the audience. Great its getting done in UK. Was surprised at just how manual this still is with someone still required to get the sprue off the machine .  Loved the enthusiasm of the guy showing off his plant . Only spotted one "iconic" in there !

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

The Hornby European ranges seems to be conspicuous in their absence.

 

Can we have an episode where Simon ponders over what dubious livery do the Electrotren 0-6-0T in next? Or the word 'iconic' is over used 47 times to describe an orange liveried TGV?

As the programme appears to be aimed at British audiences I reckon it is ptobably far simpler for all concerned to ignore railway models which aren't emblazoned with the Hornby brand name.  And definitely far less confusing for what is basically a largely non-railway modelling target tv audience.

[The Stationmaster]

19 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Thats was absolutely fascinating . To me thats what should be in the program as it shows the tech behind producing the model , and I dont think that would lose the audience. Great its getting done in UK. Was surprised at just how manual this still is with someone still required to get the sprue off the machine .  Loved the enthusiasm of the guy showing off his plant . Only spotted one "iconic" in there !

But would it do Hornby's image much good if it became clear to Joe Public that the railway models are made in China.  We've already had a century of Hornby at Margate, an almost total whitewashing out of Hornby-Dublo and various other historical twists which swerve round the hstory of the brand by portraying it as a company with a continuous history.

 

Just spend soem time ina model railway retailer's shop (if you can find one) in the run up to Christmas when it's the older folk buying a trainset for their grandchild and it's the brand which they know of and remember.  and when they had a Hornby set it had been made in Liverpool but it's still a British brand.    Listen how it's portrayed in the opening words as 'Britain's biggest etc ..'    Then go telling everybody the trains are made in China instead of referring to 'samples arriving from the factory'.  

 

I think from a marketing viewpoint they've got it right and as has been repeatedly said it is entertainment, not a documentary, and that means that   timescales of model development have to be compressed.  So what in reality usually takes a year or two has to be edited into a one hour programme. 

[Jeff Smith]

30 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But would it do Hornby's image much good if it became clear to Joe Public that the railway models are made in China.

However, many consumer goods say Made in China so it would not be too much of a shock!  Rapido is more than happy to publish pictures of the production process in China but admittedly in emails to interested email recipients.  Hornby is still under British ownership, which is commendable, unlike 'iconic' brands like Vauxhall, Range Rover, Jaguar, Rolls-Royce cars or Bentley!

[Darius43]

I enjoy the programme as entertainment with models of all sorts in view.  Back when I was a kid there were few programmes about railways let alone model railways - Model World with Bob Symes stands out in this respect.

 

That's why it’s great to relax with a cuppa and watch this programme.  I don’t expect it to be comprehensive in terms of how the models are really developed or how the company is run.  
 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

But would it do Hornby's image much good if it became clear to Joe Public that the railway models are made in China.  We've already had a century of Hornby at Margate, an almost total whitewashing out of Hornby-Dublo and various other historical twists which swerve round the hstory of the brand by portraying it as a company with a continuous history.

 

Just spend soem time ina model railway retailer's shop (if you can find one) in the run up to Christmas when it's the older folk buying a trainset for their grandchild and it's the brand which they know of and remember.  and when they had a Hornby set it had been made in Liverpool but it's still a British brand.    Listen how it's portrayed in the opening words as 'Britain's biggest etc ..'    Then go telling everybody the trains are made in China instead of referring to 'samples arriving from the factory'.  

 

I think from a marketing viewpoint they've got it right and as has been repeatedly said it is entertainment, not a documentary, and that means that   timescales of model development have to be compressed.  So what in reality usually takes a year or two has to be edited into a one hour programme. 

Except of course that as a factual series, albeit closer to the entertain than the inform end of the spectrum , it's not supposed to be about marketing Hornby's brands. For the company that may be a useful by-product and undoubtedly why they've done it but if the production company are agreeing to things like not mentioning China or distorting the history of Hornby to suit the present company's needs, and I'm not saying that they are, then that would be very questionable.

 

On the choice of prototypes I found this phrase in the voice-over very telling. 

"Modellers like to populate their layouts with superstar trains from the past". Clearly by trying to buy models that are at leas appropriate to my own layout I've been getting it wrong all these years or should "modellers" in that sentence perhaps be "collectors"

[RJS1977]

Perhaps the phrasing there should have been "Some modellers" or "Many modellers".

[AY Mod]

Email title from Hornby this morning "join Phil as he designs the heaviest model locomotive ever: the Turbomotive!"

 

In the programme it was quoted as 586g and was phrased as "the heaviest model Hornby has ever produced", fair enough but I do wish the email title had as much clarity.

[Farang]

Watching this programme two things struck me. The first was that Hornby seems to have a lot of "managers". And did you notice the acres of empty space behind some of the people being interviewed? I thought that all that area could be used as the warehouse and distribution of their products rather that paying millions to a third party miles away to provide that service?

 

Looking at Hornby I see them as having two ranges, for two markets. You have the train sets and all the scenic items to go with them and then you have the highly detailed models for the committed enthusiasts. But in the latter market they'll lose a large slice to Accurascale and a couple of others. Hornby could have done what AS is doing but I suspect it was Simon Davies-Kohler who wanted to keep on producing umpteen modes of Flying Scotsman etc.  And then you have the massive gamble on TT:120. In the intro to the video didn't SDK say it was aimed at people who were outside the hobby? But it seems sales are to existing modellers. SDK mentioned advertising it in newspapers. has anyone seen an advert in a newspaper?

 

 

 

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, Farang said:

did you notice the acres of empty space behind some of the people being interviewed? I thought that all that area could be used as the warehouse and distribution of their products rather that paying millions to a third party miles away to provide that service?

 

That's the old factory/storage space - it's not suited to 21st century storage and distribution. It's not all weatherproof and not really suited to mechanisation.

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, Farang said:

 

Looking at Hornby I see them as having two ranges, for two markets. You have the train sets and all the scenic items to go with them and then you have the highly detailed models for the committed enthusiasts. 

 

It's more complicated than that, you've got the 'collector' market that the 'Hornby Dublo'  locos are aimed at, then there's the nostalgia items like the re-visited Triang train sets. This isn't to say buyers can be pigeon holed so clearly anyway.

[Phatbob]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Loved the enthusiasm of the guy showing off his plant . Only spotted one "iconic" in there !

Auotincorrect strikes again?  I think maybe "plant" should be "plane".   So much for modern technology!

I agree entirely.  Of all of Hornby's talented designers we've 'met' so far in this series, Paramjit seems to be the only one who's a "pukka modeller", so to speak.  A real enthusiast.  It didn't surprise me at all that out of the whole team he was the one who actually built and finished the whole kit.  Made a bl00dy good job of it too IMHO.

[Legend]

16 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

Auotincorrect strikes again?  I think maybe "plant" should be "plane".   So much for modern technology!

I agree entirely.  Of all of Hornby's talented designers we've 'met' so far in this series, Paramjit seems to be the only one who's a "pukka modeller", so to speak.  A real enthusiast.  It didn't surprise me at all that out of the whole team he was the one who actually built and finished the whole kit.  Made a bl00dy good job of it too IMHO.

 

No I actually meant his plant as in a production facility and in particular his molding machines . I was referring to Maicos post showing the process of molding the new Spitfire sprues 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Legend

[Metr0Land]

Quite a nice fairly lengthy bit about repairing a returned A2, and Simon's commitment to retaining customers.  (And before anyone bangs on about getting better QC at Hornby, AS get returns too)

[Phatbob]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

No I actually meant his plant as in a production facility and in particular his molding machines . I was referring to Maicos post showing the process of molding the new Spitfire sprues 

Oops!  Thanks for the correction.

[Tartaruga]

2 hours ago, Farang said:

In the intro to the video didn't SDK say it was aimed at people who were outside the hobby? But it seems sales are to existing modellers. SDK mentioned advertising it in newspapers. has anyone seen an advert in a newspaper?

 

I presume as it has been taken up so readily by current modellers that their costs are being covered and they will advertise in the lead up to Christmas as planned last year.

Newspaper advertising does seem a little strange though if trying to attract a younger market.

[spamcan61]

13 minutes ago, Tartaruga said:

 

 

Newspaper advertising does seem a little strange though if trying to attract a younger market.

True enough, few people under 50 I know are regular newspaper readers, heck I'm 62 and have never bought one regularly; presumably the statement should be 'advertising in media not associated with traditional Hornby customers' or something like that.

[Arun Sharma]

22 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

However, many consumer goods say Made in China so it would not be too much of a shock!  Rapido is more than happy to publish pictures of the production process in China but admittedly in emails to interested email recipients.  Hornby is still under British ownership, which is commendable, unlike 'iconic' brands like Vauxhall, Range Rover, Jaguar, Rolls-Royce cars or Bentley!

The 3D CAD software used on the show is SolidWorks which of course belongs to Dassault in France. The reverse engineering software that turns scan point clouds into executable SolidWorks files is derived from the Korean software Rapidform XOR [or Design X in its most recent US 3D Systems incarnation].  Before they reach our baseboards, models have been touched by the products of many countries.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Arun Sharma
punctuation, grammar

[Keith Addenbrooke]

10 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Shouldnt get steamed up over it (no pun intended) but this is what annoys me about this program  where details are skimmed over but its ok because its entertainment .  

 

Overall I thought a decent program . I had the original 1/24 Spitfire but I had to get my Dad to do the engine.  I really wouldn't fancy doing the new one ! Is it an age thing or am I just too impatient ? 432 parts to the whole thing   eek 

As you say, I felt it was a decent program too: an hour of light entertainment.  I’ve commented previously that I think Airfix come across well - which I think they did again in this week’s episode.
 

Of course, there are model railway kits with just as many parts - I’m currently working my way (slowly) through an HO Faller Station kit with 400 parts:

 

It won’t ever be finished to display standard though.

 

9 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

 

To be fair, the next(?) prog about development of the new Black Five shows a lot of browsing books/taking pics etc etc, but then later in the show when they have a running prototype does say something along the lines of 'we're now back a year later'.

 

As mentioned upstream, the prog is about family entertainment (which I think it does well and shows the hobby in a good light) rather than detail, detail, detail.  Last night's prog showed how a teenage son had got his mother (jewellery maker by trade and father, cabinet maker by trade) all involved in making a large layout which involved knocking holes in walls as well as both parents helping with the build - true family bonding.

I did like the bit where Mum learnt about model railway electrics - hands up how many of us have done that…?  Not sure I’d get away with that approach to layout building though.  All good fun, Keith.