Modeller survey 2023

[TheSignalEngineer]

30 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

During 1984-6, my very approachable boss was to be found every month in print in the correspondence pages of Modern Railways, debating the merits of Chapelon steam locos.  So much for Modern! He since has a few books to his name, all about UK prototype. 

A boss of mine frequently appeared in the railway press. He would ask us to proof read before he sent the material off.

[Gwiwer]

43 minutes ago, younGGuns7 said:

why so few Blue pre TOPS diesels from that period,

It wasn’t all that long. Green locos gained TOPS numbers. True the first blue appeared in the mid 60s and TOPS numbers were not widespread for another 8-10 years.  But far from all locos were blue until around 1970 by which time TOPS wasn’t very far away. 
 

 

[Bucoops]

Very interesting, thank you Andy.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ian J. said:

 

For me it's nothing to do with Covid, that was just a temporary thing. For me then it's to do with my subtle Aspergers/autism. I just don't fit well into club environments, as experience has shown me.

 

Same here (well, undiagnosed but it' pretty clear to me I tick those and probaly ADHD as well). I'm ok once I've been in an environment a while but going somewhere new is something I actively avoid.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Bucoops

[Michael Hodgson]

15 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Very interesting, thank you Andy.

 

 

 

Same here (well, undiagnosed but it' pretty clear to me I tick those and probaly ADHD as well). I

I'm more G&T and bar.

[younGGuns7]

27 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

It wasn’t all that long. Green locos gained TOPS numbers. True the first blue appeared in the mid 60s and TOPS numbers were not widespread for another 8-10 years.  But far from all locos were blue until around 1970 by which time TOPS wasn’t very far away. 
 

 

However the Western region which I alluded too as the numbers pointed to in the questionnaire, was a Blue pre TOPs era all the Westerns were blue in the end, so why so few 31/47/37 in pre TOPS blue, we have Class 22 33/35/2/52 but seem to avoid the 37/47s specially the 47 namers 

 

[Gwiwer]

16 minutes ago, younGGuns7 said:

specially the 47 namers 

Several of which have been released in blue with pre-TOPS numbers and names.

[F-UnitMad]

Re the 'DC, DCC, etc' question - is it just me, or is the 'Other' answer "Don't Know" rather disconcerting..??!! 😲🙄😁

[AY Mod]

13 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Re the 'DC, DCC, etc' question - is it just me, or is the 'Other' answer "Don't Know" rather disconcerting..??!! 😲🙄😁

 

Reading some of the 'why isn't my loco working?' topics I'm not surprised.

[Andy Hayter]

Many thanks for the survey and the results Andy.  It is much appreciated.

 

I have started to do some analysis on the periods modelled and compared with the 2014 survey results.  I do have the 2018 data somewhere (I hope) but it has vanished into the bottom of my virtual filing cabinet.

 

It is interesting to see how trends seem to have moved.

 

The period divisions back in the 2014 were rather coarser than the current survey, so I have had to do some combination of data to get a comparison.  No criticism of Andy and the current survey which is more refined and as time moves on it is important to reflect changes.

 

Interest in the current/recent period has increased by 35% rising to 18.26% from 13.55% of entries.  This may be due to an increase in the availability of models or equally simply because the time period covered is now 9 years longer than it was in 2014 - around a 37% increase in the time period (as defined against the 2014 period definitions).

 

The BR diesel/mainline electric period has seen an increase in interest of 14% whereas BR steam and transition has a 13% fall in interest.   Does his simply reflect that as time passes, what we saw in our formative years moves forward in time and perhaps reflects the validity of that idea?

 

Interest in the grouping period has fallen by a large 33%.  It is very tempting to blame this on no one now having first hand knowledge of the period but in reality even in 2014, the numbers who experienced the grouping period, let alone remembered it, was already well in decline.  Remember in 2014 nationalisation was already 67 years ago.  So I think the explanations are a little more complex.

 

Pregrouping has seen an increase of 42% but it has to be said from a low base of under 7% in 2014.  Availability of models has to be a factor and I would dare to suggest that pretty liveries will attract some.   Perhaps the message to manufacturers is that if you build the models, people will buy them.  

 

I will do a bit of work later on comparing age distribution and period modelled.

 

[BMacdermott]

6 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

I have started to do some analysis on the periods modelled and compared with the 2014 survey results. 

 

Hello Andy (Hayter)

 

Can you point me to the 2014 Survey please?

 

Brian

[Andy Hayter]

Sorry Brian I cannot - maybe @AY Modknows where to find it in the archives.

 

I just kept some of the data that I analysed back then.  It was all centred around how many people model which period and the age profile of the respondents.   I wanted to break the oft and still quoted meme that we all  model what we saw in our formative years - which you and I both know is not necessarily the case.  Back then I could show that at least 39% of the replies were for people who could not possibly be driven by this concept.  This had gone up to 49% in the 2018 survey.  I will work on this years data to do the same but gut feel says that the number has gone down, given the large drop in grouping modellers.

[Oldddudders]

16 hours ago, DenysW said:

It is said that whenever people are asked how much they drink/smoke/etc. they lie - on the low side.

Motivational Distortion, I think that may be called. Apparently in vogue in responses to surveys about bedroom activities, where the average respondent is apparently Casanova on steroids! 

[Grafarman]

22 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Very interesting, a big thank you to @AY Mod 

 

In terms of a typical modeller (there being no such thing, of course), I think a notional median position might look like this:

 

“I’m in my 50s and currently building just one layout, on my own, and in 4mm scale using commercial track.  I’m not exploring TT:120, and already have between 30 and 50 locomotives, a similar number of coaches, and between 50 and 100 wagons.  Where I live doesn’t determine what I model, and I’m unlikely to go to more than a couple of exhibitions a year.  When I do go to exhibitions, it is the layouts I’m most likely to be interested in.  I use the internet every day and read magazines for the layout articles,  for shopping, news and learning new skills, and I estimate I usually spend between £500 and £1000 per year (a figure that remains fairly constant).”

 

 

Erm, ok, so apart from one criteria that's me described pretty accurately... anyone else identify with this.. ?!

 

David 

[Oldddudders]

4 minutes ago, Grafarman said:

 

Erm, ok, so apart from one criteria that's me described pretty accurately... anyone else identify with this.. ?!

 

David 

But isn't that what a median represents - no actual individual, but a distillation of outlooks to create the equivalent of the man on the Clapham omnibus? 

[Grafarman]

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

But isn't that what a median represents - no actual individual, but a distillation of outlooks to create the equivalent of the man on the Clapham omnibus? 

Yes indeed; I was just musing on it and wondered if it was an accurate median...

 

David 

[Ian J.]

There's almost always one person or thing that fits the average, but rarely more than one. A bit like stereotypes...

[newbryford]

4 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

There's almost always one person or thing that fits the average, but rarely more than one. A bit like stereotypes...

 

You should never stereotype people.

 

But it sure saves a lot of time..........

[TheSignalEngineer]

18 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

It wasn’t all that long. Green locos gained TOPS numbers. True the first blue appeared in the mid 60s and TOPS numbers were not widespread for another 8-10 years.  But far from all locos were blue until around 1970 by which time TOPS wasn’t very far away. 
 

 

The two tone green livery on 47s lasted through to 1977.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

The two tone green livery on 47s lasted through to 1977.

And there were “specials” including 40122 and 45106 even later 

[younGGuns7]

19 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Several of which have been released in blue with pre-TOPS numbers and names.

Can you point me in the right direct of this enormous list of named Blue Pre TOPs 47 so I can have a look around to see what I can find TIA

[TheSignalEngineer]

14 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

And there were “specials” including 40122 and 45106 even later 

A few depot specials as well like the Tyseley TMD shunter in GWR green with brass number plates and New Street  08 pilot in 1930s LMS black.

[The Johnster]

On 25/01/2023 at 00:07, tomparryharry said:

Given that some of the south Wales coal carriers had very large fleets of wagons, it stands to reason that  modellers of that particular area/era would amass large fleets of rolling stock. Collieries such as Lewis, Ocean, Nixon, Powell Duffryn  etc had fleets well in excess of 5,000 wagons apiece, and once things like the Cambrian Combine, nearly 10,000, it starts to be a bit hectic. Even the small collieries, such as Treferig House (Llantrisant) had some 130-odd wagons. 4 miles over, Bryn colliery  Llantwit Fardre) was doing even more.   

 

The reality is that if you're running something realistic to your chosen ideal, then mineral wagons might well be in the majority.  I always wish that manufacturers of mineral wagons would leave them un-numbered, so we can number them in realistic fashion. The notion of 500+ in a collection might be considered too low....

 

Single wagon train paths didn't really happen past Gloucester or the Severn Tunnel.

 

 

If you model BR steam/early diesel, and have a fiddle yard, that fiddle yard represents a railway network where very large numbers of wagons and a good amount of NPCCS were pooled, any one or any other number of which could appear from the fy scenic break. There is therefore an argument for possessing models of all of those vehicles, not to mention all gangwayed PCCS if you model a main line location. Oh, and the entire European fleet of ferry vehicles as well.  You can cut down a bit on non-gangwayed stock, which travelled about a bit less, anything in circuit/RU working, and some PO wagons like the Consett hoppers.  
 

You don’t need to include emu stock foreign to your location, and in some cases no more than your region’s locos (not many Black 5s west of Plymouth on WR).  That disposes of the ‘too many locos/too much stock argument; you don’t have anything like enough, not even Pete Waterman has anything like enough!

 

Imagine a layout based on Lawrence Hill in Bristol (doable I reckon as a club project), set in 1962, and ask what stock could not have passed through that station or over the MR bridge. 

 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, we compromise.  My own BLT has a fleet of 30 pool minerals (the bulk of which are RTR, there are 8 Baccy 16tonners with no duplicate numbers or altered numbers), and another 30 or so pool general merchandise/NPCCS, enough to run my timetable.  For general merchandise vehicles, all those in sidings on the layout should have at least one more to replace it in storage so they can be swapped and variety provided. 
 

Locos and passenger coaches I can get away with less of in the mountainous hinterland of central glamorgan far away (in atmosphere, not so far in distance) from the main lines, but in theory could justify having models of all those allox 86F in my period, another 60 or so locos over the 15 I have, and perhaps 40 more coaches, again a factor of around four fold.  Then I’d have a storage problem and some of them would very rarely be used.  Better in all senses to have a representative selection of as many types and livery variations as possible, and I’m a fair way towards achieving this. 
 

I’m lucky; The Squeeze is supportive and so long as the bills are paid has no problem with what I do with any money left over.  I think she’s just grateful that I’m not an addicted problem gambler like her previous partner, who cleaned her out and left her homeless.  I am more than happy for her to see my bank statements at any time, and never hide purchases from her.  
 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by The Johnster

[john new]

Not a 47 but I recall one of York's 08s lasting in absolutely filthy green well into the 1970s. I have a feeling I photographed it on slide film so that would be at least as late as 1974. Unfortunately my slide collection is inaccessible for the moment.

[Mallard60022]

Not a 47 or an 08, but there was a Class 20 that was a celebrity around Wellingborough and area in 1977/78, as it retained Green Livery (filthy and faded). CBA to look up what it was.

P

[298]

On 27/01/2023 at 13:14, Ian J. said:

We do seem to be a bit of a 'going solo' bunch, don't we?

 

I'm amazed by the response to exhibition attendance, having thought that my work and family commitments would put me low down but it seems it's actually another thing that I'm better than average at. 

 

Perhaps it's because regular exhibition attendees are too busy at then to fill in the poll, aren't reflected in the responses, or because RMweb users get their full from looking at modelling here and don't feel the need to attend? Curious.