Graffiti,what is the matter with people who do this.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Brand new and this happens to the first new Metro unit en route to being delivered to Heaton dept.......

 

[Pete the Elaner]

There is a place for graffiti & that is not it.

What a waste of money buying cans of paint to do that with it too? I would rather spend it on something useful.

[Hroth]

The same thing happened to some new Merseyrail class 777 units before they were delivered to Kirkdale depot in 2020. Typically, Merseyrail have yet to bring their fleet of new trains into service*, they're still running the cranky old 507/508 units.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/new-merseyrail-train-covered-graffiti-18676844

 

* Reasons include Covid, manning disputes and the ongoing industrial actions.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Hroth
Picture of graffitied train

[woodenhead]

In answer to the question we would have to delve into the socio-economic deprivation of inner cities and the impact that has had on the prospects of employment and organised group activities like social clubs, and places for young people to hang out to aid the wellbeing for the now disaffected youth of the world.

 

Graffiti is not a UK problem, it happens across the world whereever there are large concentrations of people and a lack of meaningful employment and social cohesion.

 

Fix deprivation, make people proud of their surroundings and deliver true equal rights regardless of background and you'll see a reduction in graffitism and vandalism.

[grandadbob]

It's just happened in London as well:

 

https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/tfls-first-brand-new-8million-26340107

[melmerby]

14 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

In answer to the question we would have to delve into the socio-economic deprivation of inner cities and the impact that has had on the prospects of employment and organised group activities like social clubs, and places for young people to hang out to aid the wellbeing for the now disaffected youth of the world.

 

Graffiti is not a UK problem, it happens across the world whereever there are large concentrations of people and a lack of meaningful employment and social cohesion.

 

Fix deprivation, make people proud of their surroundings and deliver true equal rights regardless of background and you'll see a reduction in graffitism and vandalism.

Not just an activity of the lower socio-economic ranks.

It's gone on for possibly hundreds of years where "well to dos" would graffito historical objects to show they had been there.

The paradox is this graffiti is now considered part of the history of the objects but if you or I did it we now, would be up before the beak!

 

Even these days I would be surprised if they are all "poor" individuals, some people just get a kick out of doing things like that.

 

[Reorte]

Some get a kick out of it, some seem to genuinely believe that they're "improving" things, but it all stems from a fundamental lack of respect for the world around us (same with litter - and IMO quite a lot that's officially approved and built).

[EddieB]

23 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

In answer to the question we would have to delve into the socio-economic deprivation of inner cities and the impact that has had on the prospects of employment and organised group activities like social clubs, and places for young people to hang out to aid the wellbeing for the now disaffected youth of the world.

 

Graffiti is not a UK problem, it happens across the world whereever there are large concentrations of people and a lack of meaningful employment and social cohesion.

 

Fix deprivation, make people proud of their surroundings and deliver true equal rights regardless of background and you'll see a reduction in graffitism and vandalism.

No.  You'll recall that a party of taggers were hit and killed by a train while working on a piece of vandalism several years back - they were friends from well-off families.

 

While the do-gooders are looking into social deprivation, thousands (if not millions) are spent in policing (including helicopter hours) trying to stop this dangerous and unnecessary pastime.  Taggers should be apprehended and made to pay for cleaning/repainting every instance of their criminal actions.

[John M Upton]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

No.  You'll recall that a party of taggers were hit and killed by a train while working on a piece of vandalism several years back - they were friends from well-off families.

 

I remember that one, the reaction initially to the deaths of a number of people was sympathy, as soon as it was revealed it was graffiti taggers, that changed very quickly to a serves them right line of thinking.

 

A lot of graffiti tagging is drug gangs marking their territory which as the exodus of people from London to the rural South East has progressed has seen an alarming increasing in this pointless stupid idiotic scrawling in areas where it was previously all but unheard of.

 

Chichester of all places is now seeing extensive tagging for the first time and the residents with their usual aplomb will accept nothing less than public hanging from the Cathedral spire for the culprits before their mortal remains are then drawn and quartered in the streets...

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, grandadbob said:

It's just happened in London as well:

 

https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/tfls-first-brand-new-8million-26340107

 

Not exactly a surprise.

 

What many on here may not realise is there is an awful lot of competition in the world of gangs / gafaiti vandals to be the 'first' one to 'tag' something new. be it a train or a fresh concrete wall / bridge. The first one to do it gets enormous street cred - and IIRC there are even stories of a finical bounty being paid out to the successful vandal...

 

New trains have long been a target - when some of the 717s went into store at West Worthing pending introduction into service 24/7 security guards were posted - but that didn't stop at least one unit getting tagged....

[Classsix T]

In answer to the thread header, I don't believe there's anything more "the matter" with me than many other people.

 

C6T.

[kevinlms]

14 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

There is a place for graffiti & that is not it.

What a waste of money buying cans of paint to do that with it too? I would rather spend it on something useful.

Stolen cans of paint, is far more likely!

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

7 hours ago, Classsix T said:

In answer to the thread header, I don't believe there's anything more "the matter" with me than many other people.

 

C6T.

So are you saying that this is acceptable to damage a brand new unit before its even arrived for purpose,,,,,

 

[jjb1970]

If people are happy for someone else to spray paint over their own home, car or whatever without permission  then I will give them the benefit of the doubt in considering it to be art. Personally I think it is vandalism.

[Jonboy]

Ummmm as the last art exhibition I visited was Dismaland, who’s origins came from that scene but are routed in commentary on society, I am not sure what I should be feeling….

[peanuts]

Banksy mural or graffiti ? art or vandalism as far as we know he never asks permission ? 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

To call it art the artist should have to buy and own the canvass,this kind of thing is just pure vandalism with no respect for others property.

[jjb1970]

If people ask permission and it is granted then go for it. Otherwise it is vandalism, regardless of who does it.

[F-UnitMad]

12 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Chichester of all places is now seeing extensive tagging for the first time and the residents with their usual aplomb will accept nothing less than public hanging from the Cathedral spire for the culprits before their mortal remains are then drawn and quartered in the streets...

Just make them remove their 'handiwork' first, then string them up. 🙂

[PeterStiles]

But...

 

"Give peas a chance" (above the M25)

and

The Dunstable Duck

 

helped me navigate those seldom-trod paths...

 

and who can forget the immortal scrawl "Elvis is king" on the Northwick Park roundabout.. That outlived Elvis by what seemed decades before it was finally cleared up.

[33C]

All the " artists" I have caught have come from well off families. When you see the amount and quality of the materials carried, this is no cheap "hobby". Many "heart in mouth" moments when you catch a glimpse of a face at the lineside! Last lot were in their late 20's and 30's, under a bridge with no easy access from anywhere, a two mile walk across fields, to spray in a place that no-one would see except train drivers. Why? All oblivious to the danger, all charged with trespass.

[BachelorBoy]

This graffiti on the Hammersmith & City Line between Ladbroke Grove and Westbourne Park was quite famous in the 1970s.

 

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Jonboy said:

Ummmm as the last art exhibition I visited was Dismaland, who’s origins came from that scene but are routed in commentary on society, I am not sure what I should be feeling….

 

1 hour ago, peanuts said:

Banksy mural or graffiti ? art or vandalism as far as we know he never asks permission ? 

 

Banksy is somewhat problematic (and those who pretend it isn't have something wrong with their moral compass in my view)

 

On the one hand I freely admit his works are technically vandalism because the images appear on someone elses property without permission - BUT, unlike most graffiti which basically amounts to scrotes saying 'I was ere' or gangs marking their territory, Banksy's works are a usually a thought provoking commentary on society at large (e.g. Girl looking happy its snowing but round a corner we see the 'snow' is actually soot from burning rubbish*) and were they to appearing in a satirical magazine would not cause any problems.

 

* which by the way is eerily similar to the scene in Schindlers list (the movie) when ash from the burning of the exhumed corpses of the Jewish Ghetto liquidation falls like snow)

 

Furthermore I believe that all Banksy's art / vandalism is done in publicly accessible places like the wall of a house facing onto the pavement - frequently making use of dumped rubbish, pre-existing damaged surfaces or other street furniture as part of the image - which is different from someone who trespasses on a railway line to spray a bridge abutment or train parked in a siding. That again makes things rather more complicated when it comes to passing judgement to anyone who considers the matter properly.

 

History will show that sometimes what might be 'illegal acts' are an important part of the evolution of society - the Suffergete moment for example did many 'illegal' things (including graffiti) which people were prosecuted for, yet as a whole the movement was successful in achieving social change. In that sense Banksy's work, which usually draws our attention to things the affluent middle classes may like to pretend are not an issue is beneficial to society at large - even if it is technically illegal.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, peanuts said:

Banksy mural or graffiti ? art or vandalism as far as we know he never asks permission ? 

Can be both. Doesn't justify or excuse it. It's art if it has any artistic qualities, vandalism if it's done without permission, and those aren't mutually exclusive.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Reorte

[Bernard Lamb]

Where do you draw the line? If at all.

 

 

It can be very old.

 

It can be old and eventually an historic part of the building.

 

Itcan be clever.

It can be a statement of I was here.

It can get out of hand.

 

Benard