Mass cull of ticket offices

[woodenhead]

So thinking about the soon to be loss of the Mk5 class 68 combos, I thought I might book a train trip from Manchester to Scarborough.

 

Went to the TPE site, and it said (for a random date in October) a return trip £45, not too bad I thought, until I expanded and looked at the options; none were £45. 

 

Is this the future, offer one price to entice but take it away when you actually try and go a little deeper,

[eatus-maximus]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

So thinking about the soon to be loss of the Mk5 class 68 combos, I thought I might book a train trip from Manchester to Scarborough.

 

Went to the TPE site, and it said (for a random date in October) a return trip £45, not too bad I thought, until I expanded and looked at the options; none were £45. 

 

Is this the future, offer one price to entice but take it away when you actually try and go a little deeper,

It is indeed the future, as is not being advised to buy Railcards when applicable, as is not being able to buy a full range of tickets.

[hayfield]

Recently went to Italy using Eurostar, then TGV etc

 

Out trip started at Chelmsford with tickets bought via our tour operator to Liverpool street. We had an overnight stay near St Pancras so had to use the Underground, Total confusion when looking at the self service machines, did I need a rail card or a ticket, thankfully one of the employees suggested I tap in with my bank card, with a bit of suspicion we tapped in with our bank cards at Liverpool Street and then tapped out at Kings Cross. It was so easy but how much was the ticket ?

 

Well it was so much easier than buying a ticket from a machine or long queues at a booking office. What was strange was that the journey cost £2.70 going out and £2.80 coming back,  why the difference?  Sunday afternoon/evening in August, Tuesday early evening return in September

 

But that was TFL and not Mainline (ex BR)

[eatus-maximus]

18 hours ago, hayfield said:

Well it was so much easier than buying a ticket from a machine or long queues at a booking office. What was strange was that the journey cost £2.70 going out and £2.80 coming back,  why the difference?  Sunday afternoon/evening in August, Tuesday early evening return in September

 

But that was TFL and not Mainline (ex BR)

£2,70 is off-peak, £2.80 is peak time.

[Gordon Connell]

Looks like there might be a reprieve: U-turn on rail ticket office closures expected - BBC News

[Legend]

4 minutes ago, Gordon Connell said:

Looks like there might be a reprieve: U-turn on rail ticket office closures expected - BBC News

 

.......but only in marginal constituencies .  Cynical, Moi?

Edited October 31, 2023 by Legend

[phil-b259]

12 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

.......but only in marginal constituencies .  Cynical, Moi?

It doesn’t work like that

 

Because the Government line is these proposals are something train operators have come up of their own accord and has nothing to do with them, any closures / reductions which do happen will be organised on a TOC basis and not the boundaries of parliamentary seats.

[Mike_Walker]

23 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

It doesn’t work like that

 

Because the Government line is these proposals are something train operators have come up of their own accord and has nothing to do with them, any closures / reductions which do happen will be organised on a TOC basis and not the boundaries of parliamentary seats.

But, as we all know - and not just us enthusiasts, this plan originated from within the DfT not the TOCs.  They were just the fall guys and are reported to be "furious" as a result.

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

But, as we all know - and not just us enthusiasts, this plan originated from within the DfT not the TOCs.  They were just the fall guys and are reported to be "furious" as a result.

Indeed - and the sooner the public recognise the DfT manipulation of the rail industry goes way beyond ticket offices the better.

 

This Government has been lying to the public for long enough and needs to go!

 

 

[Will Crompton]

Some detail from the Grauniad.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/31/rail-ticket-office-closures-in-england-train-operators

[C126]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67263931

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Indeed - and the sooner the public recognise the DfT manipulation of the rail industry goes way beyond ticket offices the better.

 

This Government has been lying to the public for long enough and needs to go!

 

 

I'm not holding my breath on either of those two scores.

[C126]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

... the sooner the public recognise the DfT manipulation of the rail industry goes way beyond ticket offices the better.

 

I ranted to a fellow commuter yester-day morning - a University sub-Professor - who still believed the railway companies were increasing profits by not hiring more trains to alleviate our peak-time crush loadings.  This is the third time I have lectured him, and still he jumps to the simplistic conclusion.  How many times can one use the phrases "direct management contracts", "Treasury's dead hand", and "government diktat", before despairing of the polity?  Sorry, rant over.

 

[Edit: Actually, I think the correct word is "electorate", not polity.]

Edited October 31, 2023 by C126
Vocab. and spelling.

[woodenhead]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

It doesn’t work like that

 

Because the Government line is these proposals are something train operators have come up of their own accord and has nothing to do with them, any closures / reductions which do happen will be organised on a TOC basis and not the boundaries of parliamentary seats.

When it suits the PR, the railways have been renationalised and, when they need to do anything nasty, it's those darned private TOCs penny pinching.

 

The other one of these is of course the Avanti mess on the WCML and the cancellation of multiple services at weekends on the Manchester-London route plus everything to come in December.  How long will it take for Avanti to resolve all the disputes, train more drivers and sufficiently crew it's trains or is is also possible that because it is now in Government hands they are asking for savings to be made and not running quite so many Pendolinos at the weekend and in December saves them a pretty penny.  How long before in general the number of trains running up and down the WCML is reduced permanently to fill the remaining trains rather than have them run half empty.  And if you don't run your Pendolinos quite so intensely then there are maintenance savings, energy savings and the units may last longer especially now as HS2 trains beyond Birmingham are clearly going to be delayed.

Edited October 31, 2023 by woodenhead

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

27 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Scrap the TV licence  and let the BBC experience the real world!

The difficulty I foresee with this desireable action is separating all the existing product - which is properly the property of the nation's licence payers -  from the grubby mitts of the new commercial version of the beeb, hereafter titled CBBC.

[darrel]

How much money has been wasted on this farce?

[4630]

Sky News take on todays announcement.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/humiliation-for-mark-harper-and-blow-to-rail-industry-with-rollback-on-ticket-office-closures-12997228

[cctransuk]

23 minutes ago, 4630 said:

Sky News take on todays announcement.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/humiliation-for-mark-harper-and-blow-to-rail-industry-with-rollback-on-ticket-office-closures-12997228

 

That seems to be a balanced, reasoned report of what has happened.

 

That's why I've switched from the BBC to Sky for my news.

 

CJI.

[lmsforever]

Finally, the DFT and the government  have been defeated  its about time they listened to the public  but what have they got planned for us with Aviva cutting services and Northern doing the same we are facing a bad time on the railways. I note that first class is being reduced on the WCML   a very bad move  and people will be very annoyed with this when the current people took over from Virgin things went downhill very quickly and the comments were increasingly downbeat. ,the food was downgraded plus the number of seats has decreased rapidly and the staff visibly less able. I can remember in Virgin days as the train left Glasgow the drinks trolley rattled into the coach pushed by a friendly happy member of staff .The food orders were taken with good humour and the food itself was very good  and as the train progressed south the coaches filled and the staff remained happy and ready  to help if required .My first trip on the new owners train and it was completely different staff did not care and were actually rude sometimes the DFT must have been very pleased for they had done everything to get rid of Virgin.Our railways are going through very bad times  and if things dont change when we have an election they are going to suffer big time .

[Mike_Walker]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

When it suits the PR, the railways have been renationalised and, when they need to do anything nasty, it's those darned private TOCs penny pinching.

 

The other one of these is of course the Avanti mess on the WCML and the cancellation of multiple services at weekends on the Manchester-London route plus everything to come in December.  How long will it take for Avanti to resolve all the disputes, train more drivers and sufficiently crew it's trains or is is also possible that because it is now in Government hands they are asking for savings to be made and not running quite so many Pendolinos at the weekend and in December saves them a pretty penny.  How long before in general the number of trains running up and down the WCML is reduced permanently to fill the remaining trains rather than have them run half empty.  And if you don't run your Pendolinos quite so intensely then there are maintenance savings, energy savings and the units may last longer especially now as HS2 trains beyond Birmingham are clearly going to be delayed.

Avanti has not been absorbed into the Government's Directly Operated Railways although it is micro-managed by the DfT just like the other  TOCs.

[phil-b259]

14 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

.My first trip on the new owners train and it was completely different staff did not care and were actually rude sometimes the DFT must have been very pleased for they had done everything to get rid of Virgin.Our railways are going through very bad times  and if things dont change when we have an election they are going to suffer big time .

 

Its not rocket science - if your staff feel undervalued, bullied and generally treated like a leaf blower treats leaves then that is going to manifest itself in poor customer service.

 

All across the industry front line staff are feeling utterly demoralised in the face of DFT intransigence and bosses whose mission seems to be to brown nose the politicians or Whitehall mandarins for the sake of their own careers while the industry and its infrastructure continues to fall apart.

 

Good managers like Adrian Shooter, Criss Green and Mark Hopwood know this and its why if they are left to do their thing then you will find by and large the organisations they used to run treated their staff well

 

[Mike_Walker]

Mark told me once that when he arrived at FGW he found trains leaving Paddington late because drivers couldn't be bothered to drink up their tea and vacate the mess room on time.  He said you can't condone such practices but if you treat your staff like s**t don't be surprised if they take that attitude.  His approach is that every member of staff is there to perform a vital role in the company from deputy MD down to cleaners and you treat them all equally and with respect.  In his time morale has soared at GWR.  By contrast, after Adrian Shooter retired from Chiltern that morale their is on the floor.

[The Stationmaster]

The thing that got me about it was a comment by an interviewee on R4 who said the Govt will now look for savings on the railways from other ideas.  Now surely if teh staff were to be retained there woulfn't have been any savings anyway - whic sort of proves taht we were indeed being told lies all along.

 

Harper is an unfortunate fakll guy here as Grant Shapps was the one who really pushed this cock-eyed idea and he should be squarely in the frame for it (along with a few overpaid idiots in DafT).

 

But on amore positive note it is good news and at least passengers/inquirers will stiil know where to find staff when they visit a station.  But will staff be put back at the places where they havae already been withdrawn?

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Did the Ukrainian / Russian war cease on the day that the Palestinian / Israeli ware commenced? Any BBC news viewer would be forgiven for believing that it did!

Strange that, none of the newspapers (AFAIK) were still running Ukraine as a headline story, neither were other (non BBC) media outfits that I have heard.

I didn't take Palestine to kick the Ukraine war from top billing, it just happened because it's somewhat quieter at the moment.

 

However since Palestine kicked off there have been some Ukraine reports on the BBC news that I have seen/heard but further down the running order.

 

[ruggedpeak]

8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Harper is an unfortunate fakll guy here as Grant Shapps was the one who really pushed this cock-eyed idea and he should be squarely in the frame for it (along with a few overpaid idiots in DafT).

Sums up the fiasco nicely.

 

Various none-too-bright sorts thought this was a good idea and Harper was left holding the baby when reality caught up with it.