British Railway Announcement Winter 2023 - the usual guessing and wishlisting.

[MikeParkin65]

33 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I actually wonder if thats clever sales strategy by Bachmann..

 

Afterall they are selling their 37’s at trade price, its the retailers who are the ones doing the discounting.

 

I havent seen anything suggesting Bachmann are lowering their trade prices, so i’m guessing its the retailers giving up their margin in these sales, meaning Bachmann are getting in their coffers a price probably not too different to Accurascale’s, whilst the public see’s a big discount, at a price similar to the other 37.

 

is it the retailer getting squeezed ?

And if they are going out of the door, does anyone care as its a win, win, win all round.

 

 

 

 

 

I assume the retailers are giving up some of their margin rather than all of it? That said I remember at Warley a few years ago (certainly pre pandemic) when one of the box shifters no longer with us  - might have been Signal Box was selling the class 85 electric at a very low price - perhaps as low as £50. I know it was so low I was considering it even though I had zero use for one but when I went back it transpired one of the other traders at the show had bought all of their remaining stock on the grounds it was cheaper than the trade price. 

[wombatofludham]

To be honest, I'm less bothered by new toolings but would snap their arms off for a re-run of FFA intermediates, blue/grey Mk2fs, NSE Mk1 TSOs, or the 117 in the gorgeous Reggie Rail livery.

It's paint guys, you've done the heavy lifting of the tooling costs...

[TravisM]

6 hours ago, Geep7 said:

But also still hoping for BR Blue Class 117

 

If they do, make sure they do it without gangway's as these weren't fitted until refurbishment in the mid 70's and painted blue/grey.

[Geep7]

1 minute ago, jools1959 said:

 

If they do, make sure they do it without gangway's as these weren't fitted until refurbishment in the mid 70's and painted blue/grey.

Having read railcar.co.uk, apparently half were fitted with gangways whilst still in Blue. Most 117's also received White & Blue before getting Blue & Grey. But yes, it would be nice to have a 117 in Blue without Gangways.

 

It's a shame that you can't easily change the inter-unit connectors, so that you can create mixed formations.

[phil-b259]

6 hours ago, NXEA! said:

 but what I would expect are:

 

• A 313. 
 
• Perhaps the 319 being upsized to OO. 
 

 

 

 

They won't be doing both though....

 

A 319 would allow them to use some of the research done for the N gauge version but on the other hand 4 car EMUs sell for high prices while a 313, although requiring more research could be offered at a lower price point.

 

The 319 offers more potential in terms of spheres of operation and liveries though....

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

They won't be doing both though....

 

A 319 would allow them to use some of the research done for the N gauge version but on the other hand 4 car EMUs sell for high prices while a 313, although requiring more research could be offered at a lower price point.

 

The 319 offers more potential in terms of spheres of operation and liveries though....

In the same way tooling a mk3 could offer efficiencies in all mk3 variations,  A 319 with some intelligence in tooling design would open up flexibility to also produce 317/8/20/21,455(7,8,9), 456 and a new 150 even the /0 and /1 and /2 (technically the 154 too)…using different slides in the same tooling suite.

 

much more scope for volume of sales

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by adb968008

[phil-b259]

20 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

In the same way tooling a mk3 could offer efficiencies in all mk3 variations,  A 319 with some intelligence in tooling design would open up flexibility to also produce 317/8/20/21,455(7,8,9), 456 and a new 150 even the /0 and /1 and /2 (technically the 154 too)…using different slides in the same tooling suite.

 

much more scope for volume of sales

 

 

 

Indeed - however we have been told many times by manufacturers that each new model is designed from the ground up and does not borrow bits from other designs (save for steam loco tenders)

 

As such I would suggest that 'adaptability' of a specific class (for want of a better term) is not going to be a consideration in terms of what a manufacturer may perceive as the most viable offering.

[adb968008]

15 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Indeed - however we have been told many times by manufacturers that each new model is designed from the ground up and does not borrow bits from other designs (save for steam loco tenders)

 

As such I would suggest that 'adaptability' of a specific class (for want of a better term) is not going to be a consideration in terms of what a manufacturer may perceive as the most viable offering.

It all depends what you define as a “class”.

Tooling everything up to a tooling designed to produce 100,000 examples in 2023 is a old school,thinking in this day and age, where a cad could be used to tool up an identical replacement slide to order, should anything reach that happy problem stage.

 

i’m not convinced theres 20 different class 37 toolings at Bachmann, but a few core ones with slides…, theyve even said so, as the nose ends themselves are separate pieces for instance.

 

The York mk3 suburban bodyshell is fairly standard…. But needs different end slides and a few different roof slides.

beneath the frames is the usual sprue of different fittings,  selected to that configuration.

the all important chassis and electrics would be uniform across the lot.

 

Bratchell has made a living this way for decades, the difference is you assemble it yourself, rather than selecting which slides to put in the tooling jig.

 

it could save a considerable cost, which right now is important. Theres a lot of efficiencies that could be achieved… at the end of the day it was as much of a standard design as any other BR coach design.

 

The problem i dont think is making it or justifying it…. Its competing against less complex quick wins like another class 66..

 

I am very interested to see what the 69 looks like as so far Ive found 12 unique class 69’s from the 10 in service… and i’m quite sure they havent made 12 unique toolings from scratch for it.

Edited October 30, 2023 by adb968008

[banburysaint]

A retooled Pannier and an 8f would do well. Bahamas as preserved seems like an open goal, but they could make it a club model.

An NG16 got short shrift from the Bachmann rep at the Gaydon show on Saturday, when I was earwigging a conversation. 

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, banburysaint said:

A retooled Pannier and an 8f would do well. Bahamas as preserved seems like an open goal, but they could make it a club model.

An NG16 got short shrift from the Bachmann rep at the Gaydon show on Saturday, when I was earwigging a conversation. 

Nah i’d have Bahamas in the main range, why ham string it to a limited edition, back in the early 1990’s when it was last done they couldnt sell enough of them back then too…

 

A 45699 in BR Maroon would be good and traditionally these types of limited editions in the collectors club have sold well.

[WCML100]

On 28/10/2023 at 00:37, jools1959 said:

Love to see a WCRC Class 47/8 (47802 would be good)

i too would love a 47 in west coast coast colours. Im sure most including myself would purchase one…

[WCML100]

On 29/10/2023 at 18:22, adb968008 said:

Would be nice but lets not forget theres a bunch of isolated coaches out there.. BR mk1 exhibition coach, Anglia DBsO for starters…

The 2008 tooling of the jubilee does have a separate piece moulding of the boiler, so upgrading it to a later firebox wouldnt be hard, and its been a few years since the last jubilee now.

i agree, desperate for some anglia MK2F’s - silly they never did these but did the DBSO as you say…

[nathan70000]

Froth time! 😉

 

I'm 99% sure the two scales referenced will be OO and OO9. What exactly might be produced is anyone's guess, but there have been some good suggestions. I think that a newly tooled OO steam locomotive is very likely since it is so long since one has been announced. Possibly more than one! In a cost of living squeeze, I think it would be wise to choose something that would sell below the £200 mark. There are a raft of small, attractive pre-grouping types to choose from which won't break the bank. An L&Y or LNWR 0-6-0 is long overdue, and either would complement models elsewhere in the Bachmann range. There are a couple of older models in the range that would sell well if upgraded- the 57xx/8750 and J39 come to mind.

 

Mainline diesels have been done to death, and I'm not sure the market would support a likely £500+ 4-car modern EMU either.

 

What about OO9? Anything Ffestiniog sells like hot cakes, so even though there is only one, I don't think Taliesin is off the table. An Alco 2-6-2T would be a savvy choice~ they were used by the WD and in industry, as well as Mountaineer on the FR.

 

Bachmann might even feel they can take on Kato/Peco and release Englands of their own. The Kato models, whilst nice, are not DCC ready and lack some of the finer detailing that Bachmann are so good at.

 

I'm 99% certain there is zero chance of an RTR NGG16. They're too big, too complex, and physically would not fit on most OO9 layouts. The price tag required to make one remotely viable would be eye-watering. It's worth bearing in mind that many OO9 layouts are either small quarry or industrial locations, or add-ons to larger OO layouts.

 

We'll find out if I'm right in 48 hours!

[Graham_Muz]

11 minutes ago, nathan70000 said:

Froth time! 😉

 

I'm 99% sure the two scales referenced will be OO and OO9.

 

Except 00 and 00-9 are of course the same scale...

[Benjamin Brady]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thred but I do enjoy joining in witb the guessing game. 

 

Really jumping in with what others are saying but I guess two new tooling could count as the Bulleid Tavern Car sets. I mean they are querky enough I don't think some people would mind they never ran on their region. Although they did have a fair scope of operation when they were introduced. 

 

I'm with most on here thinking something 009 is on the table. The demand is there, and it is perfect for the home over tt120. 

 

As for no4 maybe going back to earlier post a Class 66, as has previously been mentioned I can't see Bachmann giving this ground up especially when you look at the money they must have made with all the limited editions out there 

 

[Graham_Muz]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

They won't be doing both though....

 

A 319 would allow them to use some of the research done for the N gauge version but on the other hand 4 car EMUs sell for high prices while a 313, although requiring more research could be offered at a lower price point.

 

The 319 offers more potential in terms of spheres of operation and liveries though....

 

59 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Indeed - however we have been told many times by manufacturers that each new model is designed from the ground up and does not borrow bits from other designs (save for steam loco tenders)

 

As such I would suggest that 'adaptability' of a specific class (for want of a better term) is not going to be a consideration in terms of what a manufacturer may perceive as the most viable offering.

 

50 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It all depends what you define as a “class”.

Tooling everything up to a tooling designed to produce 100,000 examples in 2023 is a old school,thinking in this day and age, where a cad could be used to tool up an identical replacement slide to order, should anything reach that happy problem stage.

 

i’m not convinced theres 20 different class 37 toolings at Bachmann, but a few core ones with slides…, theyve even said so, as the nose ends themselves are separate pieces for instance.

 

The York mk3 suburban bodyshell is fairly standard…. But needs different end slides and a few different roof slides.

beneath the frames is the usual sprue of different fittings,  selected to that configuration.

the all important chassis and electrics would be uniform across the lot.

 

Bratchell has made a living this way for decades, the difference is you assemble it yourself, rather than selecting which slides to put in the tooling jig.

 

it could save a considerable cost, which right now is important. Theres a lot of efficiencies that could be achieved… at the end of the day it was as much of a standard design as any other BR coach design.

 

The problem i dont think is making it or justifying it…. Its competing against less complex quick wins like another class 66..

 

I am very interested to see what the 69 looks like as so far Ive found 12 unique class 69’s from the 10 in service… and i’m quite sure they havent made 12 unique toolings from scratch for it.

 

Ahh yes... that common oft repeated view... if only it were as simple as you imply and cheap, or easy to recover such costs within a realistic timescale! Easy to say when its someone elses money...

[phil-b259]

23 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

 

 

Ahh yes... that common oft repeated view... if only it were as simple as you imply and cheap, or easy to recover such costs within a realistic timescale! Easy to say when its someone elses money...

 

Erm.... not sure how you managed to create that conclusion from my posts.

 

I'm fully aware that Bachmann, like all manufacturers regardless of whether they make model trains or baked beans primary concern is to make money for their Stakeholders and as such what they may chose to launch onto the market will ultimately be grounded in maximum sales potential for minimum outlay rather than focusing simply on filling gaps in collectors inventories.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by phil-b259

[The Black Hat]

Ying, ying, ying, ying...

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

 

 

Ahh yes... that common oft repeated view... if only it were as simple as you imply and cheap, or easy to recover such costs within a realistic timescale! Easy to say when its someone elses money...

I never said its cheap or simple.

I said it could achieve efficiencies and save cost if done correctly, I do believe it could.

Happy to explain the difference in my words.

 

I agree it is highly complex and long term. Just like Electrostar would be, and right now I think the hobby is very competitive and short term…,

 

imagine putting all that money into a 143 and 144 only to see a second one pop up suddenly, there might even be a third someday.. afterall a 142 uses a very similar 143 and 144 chassis and it could achieve efficiences and save cost if done correctly, should demand suggest sufficient interest.

However as a buyer, a retooled a loco maybe quick cheap win, but i’m finding it causes much less wallet twitching… so it might be cheaper, but that doesn't guarantee success (see comments on the 24 for example).

Edited October 30, 2023 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

Maybe it’s time for a Farish Peak to break cover seeing as Rapido are moving their version along nicely.

 

It’s probably a Next18 47 though.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Won't complain at more SR stock in the EFE range! 

[Guest]

On 30/10/2023 at 15:24, JohnR said:

I can't see Bachmann moving into TT120, even if it was something they already had all the drawings for. 

 

Something like the LSWR T3, while fitting in with the coaches from EFE, is more likely to be done by someone like Rails - after all they have a history of these commissions.

I have to agree on that one, for the fact that they already have their fingers in many other pies, such as with of course, their Graham Farish and OO9 ranges, as well as the EFE range, although the latter has turned out  a few surprises, such as the O-gauge Class 15 and the Class 143/144 Pacer whose origins are/were something of a mystery (were these items confirmed as originally being Heljan and Realtrack Models?). So therefore is a remote possibility of something unexpected showing up there!

Edited October 31, 2023 by Guest

[Kaput]

Feels like a chunk of the N gauge stuff from the last quarterly announcements still isn't actually in the shops yet so I'm leaning towards this one being light on N.

 

If they can do what they done with the new 47 and 37 and have them in the shops same day/week as the announcement then a retooled 66 could be a decent shout.

 

A re-release of the Scotrail DBSO (maybe even updated to reflect the one LSL currently has) to go with 47712 would be nice although with the prices of the DBSO's these days my bank balance isn't too sure.

[AMJ]

Only 24 hours to wait and see

[Suzy Sulzer]

8 hours ago, Kaput said:

Feels like a chunk of the N gauge stuff from the last quarterly announcements still isn't actually in the shops yet so I'm leaning towards this one being light on N.

 

If they can do what they done with the new 47 and 37 and have them in the shops same day/week as the announcement then a retooled 66 could be a decent shout.

 

A re-release of the Scotrail DBSO (maybe even updated to reflect the one LSL currently has) to go with 47712 would be nice although with the prices of the DBSO's these days my bank balance isn't too sure.

As i recall the class 47 when announced had just the one quarterly batch of releases  47712 /828/435/711/004/375/526/376/790/ D1565.

D1565 is now out of stock at Bachmann.

 

Hopefully a RES variation might appear.