Accentuate the negative - who's trying to kill the hobby?

[Steamport Southport]

23 minutes ago, Ruston said:

What a narrow-minded view!

 

Because they want to?

 

Because doing the best job of making one's layout for one's own enjoyment is as fulfilling to many of us as doing it to show it off is to those who like to show them?

 

Go on then. No one's stopping you but you could also show them on here, which is what I and many many more do. My main layout is in my shed. Others have them in rooms or the lofts of their homes. Just because we're not going to invite the public into our homes to  view our layouts means that we should give up modelling, does it?

 

Why do they need shows? What goes on at a general club show that is vital to the continuation of the hobby? Don't kid me that these shows are put on for the advancement of the hobby because they're not.

 

I don't want to watch model trains on videos either but what's that got to do with it? I and many more like me are getting on with building and operating layouts, building, painting and weathering models and all without being members of clubs or going to see a selection of layouts that are often not even that good. Just because something is in a club exhibition it doesn't make it exhibition standard, does it?

 

I've never been a member of a model railway club and I've enjoyed this hobby for more than 40 years. I didn't know that in all this time I've been doing it wrong.

 

 

Maybe I don't want to show my work on here?

 

And no, I don't think exhibiting is the be all and end all.

 

But I do reckon that when shows end then the hobby really will be dead as a parrot.

 

 I didn't expect The Spanish Inquisition!

 

I was pointing out "ONE" comment that I didn't agree with and the whole thread lays into me!

 

 

 

Jason

[TEAMYAKIMA]

23 minutes ago, Ruston said:

Why do they need shows? What goes on at a general club show that is vital to the continuation of the hobby? Don't kid me that these shows are put on for the advancement of the hobby because they're not.

 

It really does seem that you and I are in totally different hobbies.

 

A 'general club show' is where potential newbies get to see and sometimes physically touch model railways - they even sometimes to to be offered the chance to run trains on certain layouts. Nothing attracts people to a hobby more than physical interaction - that is why I always interact with viewers at shows and in particular youngsters - they are our future.

 

And another issue is that potential newbies don't go to ExpoEM or Scaleforum, they go to the local general show in their town and that's where they learn to love model railways. 

[AY Mod]

14 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Being someone who runs shows from a commercial basis I would have thought you would be defending them?

 

There are many aspects to the things that I do and I don't just deal in absolutes. My point was to say that not everyone wishes to build to exhibit and that intent doesn't necessarily govern quality.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Just now, AY Mod said:

There are many aspects to the things that I do and I don't just deal in absolutes.

 

There, that nails on the head one of the main issues. Black and white thinking. Life is generally shades of grey, with many nuances. The success or failure of a hobby will come down to a multitude of factors, not just shows or clubs. They are all just parts of the whole, and there are enough parts that it would need many of them disappearing for the hobby to die.

[Fair Oak Junction]

My local model railway show stopped about 10 years ago. My grandfather first took me when I was very young, and I went every year after that. But a forced venue move killed it.

It's a shame it's gone, and I miss it, but life and the hobby goes on.

[Glencoe Model Railway]

1 hour ago, Northerngirl said:

I find it hard to believe that any layout other than making tracks is attracting enough interest online or at a show to generate profit, but it's a far easier to show off your creation on YouTube than bring it to a show. There's been magazines for decades, social media is just a new interpretation of it

This probably hits the nail squarely on the head. It’s far easier for the majority to sit in the comfort of your own place and watch YT vids. No travel expenses, and some excellent layouts streamed straight to your device. 
Exhibitions will always have a place but the changes in the way we live since 2020 and the various lockdowns means that a lot of folk now don’t want to go where crowds are. 
From a personal point, I’ve done visited 2 shows in the last 3 years and still undecided about going to ModelRail Scotland next month. I will make the effort and go to Perth in June however as it’s evolved into one of the best shows on the circuit. 
In a previous life, I was an exhibition manager for the local show and the amount of effort to get a small two day show on was huge. I completely understand why the folks at Warley decided to make the decision they did. 
 

Everything in life evolves and what I see now are some amazing new hi spec models available, with features we could only dream off when I started in the hobby 40 odd years ago. They will continue to evolve long after I’ve departed! 
 

One final thought…. We need to relearn how to be more tolerant again, not just in the hobby but life in general. Probably too deep a topic for this thread, but we have lost this ability and I for one would love to see it back. 
 

Cheers

 

Eddie

[newbryford]

2 minutes ago, Glencoe Model Railway said:

 I will make the effort and go to Perth in June however as it’s evolved into one of the best shows on the circuit. 

 

Where Deadmans Lane will be available to be videoed...........

[AY Mod]

11 minutes ago, Glencoe Model Railway said:

It’s far easier for the majority to sit in the comfort of your own place and watch YT vids.

 

And miss out on catching up with friends, having a cuppa and a slice of cake, spot some bargains or something you could do with for the workbench? I don't think the comments in a YouTube stream replace intelligent conversation with the layout owner, a demonstrator or society stand or an old friend.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

And miss out on catching up with friends, having a cuppa and a slice of cake, spot some bargains or something you could do with for the workbench? You can't tell me the comments in a YouTube stream replace intelligent conversation with the layout owner, a demonstrator or society stand or an old friend.

 

I knew if I stayed on RMweb long enough, you would eventually post something where I could press the agree button. 😉

[Reorte]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

And miss out on catching up with friends, having a cuppa and a slice of cake, spot some bargains or something you could do with for the workbench? You can't tell me the comments in a YouTube stream replace intelligent conversation with the layout owner, a demonstrator or society stand or an old friend.

Yet it works for some people and they get what they want out of it. For some people browsing videos is much better than going out to see layouts in person. For others it's a pale shadow of seeing them for real. I'm in the latter camp personally, but neither is wrong, neither is objectively better.

[Fair Oak Junction]

To be fair the last show I went to was so busy I could barely see the layouts, let alone get anywhere close enough to talk to the owners 🤣

At least on YT you aren't having to deal with crowds, jostling, noise, germs, and you often get a better view of the layout rather than over other people's heads.

Edited January 17 by Fair Oak Junction

[Glencoe Model Railway]

Just now, AY Mod said:

 

And miss out on catching up with friends, having a cuppa and a slice of cake, spot some bargains or something you could do with for the workbench? You can't tell me the comments in a YouTube stream replace intelligent conversation with the layout owner, a demonstrator or society stand or an old friend.

I totally get that, and that’s why shows will always exist in some form. Maybe I’ve been lucky but I have had some good message exchanges with some of the YouTubers who were happy to share their techniques and tips. 
 

Part of the issue for me is the distance I have to travel for shows due to my home being in the North of Scotland- my choice and wouldn’t change it for the world. Cost isn’t too much of an issue for travel as I get free rail travel, but time is. Minimum of 3hrs to get to the central belt so it becomes a very long day. It’s not meant as a moan, it’s my choice! 
 

There will be as many opinions on this topic as there is modellers and it’s been good to read the range of views on this. We have plenty reason to be optimistic about the future of the hobby- it’s going to see me out!! 

[ELTEL]

27 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

There, that nails on the head one of the main issues. Black and white thinking. Life is generally shades of grey, with many nuances. The success or failure of a hobby will come down to a multitude of factors, not just shows or clubs. They are all just parts of the whole, and there are enough parts that it would need many of them disappearing for the hobby to die.

Well we got there in the end…..

 

Let us all enjoy our modelling at whatever standard we set ourselves, from tracks around the attic or laying some set track on the carpet to 2mm Finescale or P4 or any finescale modelling.

 

Lets all do what we want to do and enjoy our model railways, join a club if you want too, or don’t

 

Support your local exhibition and model shop, or as they say USE IT OR LOSE IT 

 

So as my mum use to say “All play Nicely”

 

Then everyone is a happy bunny.

 

 

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

To be fair the last show I went to was so busy I could barely see the layouts, let alone get anywhere close enough to talk to the owners 🤣

At least on YT you aren't having to deal with crowds, jostling, noise, germs, and you often get a better view of the layout rather than over other people's heads.

It's just all those cameras now when you are in person, you can't see the layout for the people filming....

 

It's a common complaint and it's not just a YouTuber thing, how many people place themselves and their cameras across a layout so that many people have their view obliterated for their perfect picture.

 

But that's not the topic in hand.

 

I've gotten quite adept at moving about exhibitions and targetting the less frequented bits first coming back to the busier layouts later and as I am not buying much (I don't even own one Accurascale model!) then it's only the layouts I am primarily interested in these days.

 

Next two trips though I do want to seek out the 2mm Finescale demos as I do intend to try something finer later this year.

[john new]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

A thought: Clubs and individual modellers might consider having a Toob presence*, and try to gather some followers/revenue that way, rather than losing the revenue and exposure to other Toob streams! 

 

* For example, a club might appoint a "Media Exposure member" to the committee.  They'd probably have to be one of the younger members...

 

The SLS have been trying to do so and find a replacement for me as I stepped down recently as PRO after around 20 years in the role. It comes back to the whole demographic of club and society members. The current role model of clubs and societies peaked in the 50s and 60s Any volunteer(s) to take this forward into the current era?.
 

We would happily consider granting a complimentary membership to a suitable volunteer as there is a precedent. PM me if interested.

[AY Mod]

7 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

To be fair the last show I went to was so busy I could barely see the layouts, let alone get anywhere close enough to talk to the owners 🤣

At least on YT you aren't having to deal with crowds, jostling, noise, germs, and you often get a better view of the layout rather than over other people's heads.

 

I think you need a good dose of a small but perfectly formed informal show. I know our members' day would be a trek to Taunton but you get the idea.

[Glencoe Model Railway]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

I think you need a good dose of a small but perfectly formed informal show. I know our members' day would be a trek to Taunton but you get the idea.

A good example of this was the small show I went to in Elgin back in November. Modelling was vastly different standards but seeing the good attendance, that didn’t seem to matter to the paying public. I’d love to get to more shows further afield but it’s like an expedition to get there! 
 

On other thing that affects folks visiting habits is a change in circumstances. Late last year we had a new addition to the family which means that days out have to be more carefully planned

 

 

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I think you need a good dose of a small but perfectly formed informal show. I know our members' day would be a trek to Taunton but you get the idea.

And LarkRail I imagine

 

But both are such a trek...

[osbornsmodels]

11 pages now of non modelling activity!!

I did make the trek to the Members show at Taunton and I have to say it lacked a certain something for me but I am not complaining and I will go again to support.

[Captain Kernow]

29 minutes ago, osbornsmodels said:

I have to say it lacked a certain something for me

What would help would be if you could elaborate on why you felt that and what changes you would like to see. 

 

I say this as the person who started the members day at Taunton and then ran it for more or less 10 years.

 

That's all, for now. 

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

And miss out on catching up with friends, having a cuppa and a slice of cake, spot some bargains or something you could do with for the workbench? I don't think the comments in a YouTube stream replace intelligent conversation with the layout owner, a demonstrator or society stand or an old friend.

 

I can honestly say that without joining a club, and then taking part in the exhibition circuit, I'd not be in this hobby, or have my current job*. I've never enjoyed operating a layout without a live audience, and during lockdown, I found the absence of the social side of the hobby incredibly hard to deal with. I appreciate that there are plenty for whom watching stuff on telly, is as good as being there, but not me.

 

*I appreciate that this would please a large number of people.

[Ruston]

2 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

It really does seem that you and I are in totally different hobbies.

 

A 'general club show' is where potential newbies get to see and sometimes physically touch model railways - they even sometimes to to be offered the chance to run trains on certain layouts. Nothing attracts people to a hobby more than physical interaction - that is why I always interact with viewers at shows and in particular youngsters - they are our future.

 

And another issue is that potential newbies don't go to ExpoEM or Scaleforum, they go to the local general show in their town and that's where they learn to love model railways. 

No, it's the same hobby but we have different ways of doing it and we obviously get different things from it.

 

If you like interacting in that way, and you see it as your mission to get people into the hobby, and you get enjoyment from it then that's fine. I have no problem with that. We can't all be the same.

 

I'm not into clubs, committees and the like. As far as I'm concerned there are enough rules, regulations, and people who tell you what to do and when to do it at work, and in life in general, without having it seep into something that's supposed to bring enjoyment and that's done in your own time. I don't want to have to seek permission to build a layout from a committee, to get involved with petty club politics or to have to please anyone else in any way, whether they're a newbie or some grizzled old veteran of umpteen War(ley)s.

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

4 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I can honestly say that without joining a club, and then taking part in the exhibition circuit, I'd not be in this hobby, or have my current job*. I've never enjoyed operating a layout without a live audience, and during lockdown, I found the absence of the social side of the hobby incredibly hard to deal with. I appreciate that there are plenty for whom watching stuff on telly, is as good as being there, but not me.

 

Oh Gosh!  First I agreed with Andy and now I've agreed with Phil - time to leave RMweb I think!! 😀

[adb968008]

On 15/01/2024 at 18:13, Metropolitan said:

You are right! But do the heritage railways let youngsters ride on the footplate? Do they let them get to touch the stuff and maybe oil up an engine? No they don't. 

I do disagree.

my little one has been a rail enthusiast since birth, she started copying my dad at 4 years old writing down numbers. she has been on more footplates than I ever had… 08, 20, 37,50, 73,87,165,313, 345, 390, 455, 800, plus also locos like SECR c class, 3 bulleids, black 5, a4 etc.

She has also dismantled a Bachmann 03 to pieces, reassembled it, learned a Lima pancake and moved onto robotics as a teenager.

She has several role models in the industry seen on the network, plus youtube etc. female loco drivers, female youtubers etc

She also drags me to various events, which means I travel the network with my eyes wider open.. 

 

I see youngsters, not necessarily where I see elders…. The Pride pendolino, 700155 both attract a following, some units are very popular…. There was quite a crowd watching the 68’s the other week. You dont get 2m tiktock followers by singing a song about 455’s to middle aged guys.. but one has.

 

I will make a prediction that you will see crowds in thousands this year when SWR 455’s bow out, they will be male, female, younger and multi-race…

 

The railways don't have the class variation of BR, but they do have many more livery variations…. Thats before we start talking heritage.

The hobby has grown a  younger basee, its much more socially acceptable today than the 1980’s to be a young enthusiast, its much easier to connect, not just with UK enthusiasts, but like minded enthusiasts globally… i had a great time talking with japanese rail fans at KX making a holiday purely to ride 800’s.

The hobby isnt short of support, imo, the issue is the youngsters are not aligned with the older generation and its not commercially harnessed either… if the hobby wants to bridge that gap, it needs to start looking at what the youngsters are doing, which might mean exiting a comfort zone… a limited edition with an NFT maybe?

 

Edited January 17 by adb968008

[rob D2]

All I know is, when I returned to the hobby in 1998, all we had was crappy Lima lumps now….well, look at cavalex , look at accurascale to name but two ….They wouldn’t keep making them if there was no one to buy them .

 

Hobbie have never really been affordable , they are discretionary . I remember my parents not being able to  afford much , and now I have all the financial baggage of a middle aged man I can’t afford much . I save up….an idea often lost on the “ gimme gimme “ generation stare at the phone all day .