Peterborough North

[31A]

According to the RCTS green book, the J69 was painted blue in November 1959. I can't find the date for the N7 at the moment.

 

That'd be because it wasn't.......... 

[Mallard60022]

That'd be because it wasn't.......... 

You mean blue, or didn't exist?

P

[31A]

You mean blue, or didn't exist?

P

 

Wasn't painted blue, the N7 Liverpool Street pilot, that is.  It was polished up as per the photo above, but only the J69 was painted blue.

[chaz]

I hope Great Northern will indulge me in a little off-topic meander...

 

The Colour of Steam Vol 9 - The Great Eastern Line by R C Riley - has some good pictures of the two Liverpool Street pilots.

 

In the text he recounts how he "...asked Ted Carron, local running foreman, if he would be kind enough to arrange for them to be turned to face into the sun. Rather to my surprise he agreed to do so, providing a unique photograph..."

 

A charming tale and I must say the two loco's look superb in the sunshine, gleaming and sparkling amidst the grime of the Liverpool Street loco lines.

 

The book also has a photo' of the J69 E8619 in 1951 in apple green with "British Railways" lettered out in full on the tanks, although it's not as spotlessly clean as it was in blue it's still a worth a look.

 

Chaz

[jwealleans]

J69 E8619 in 1951 in apple green with "British Railways" lettered out in full on the tanks

The York pilot at the time, if memory serves?

[great northern]

The York pilot at the time, if memory serves?

That would have been a J72 Jonathan. 68723 springs to mind. 8619 was always a Stratford pet, and used as Liverpool Street pilot.

[31A]

Sorry Jonathan, it doesn't, this time!

 

It was the same Liverpool Street J69 that Chaz mentioned above, that was later painted blue.  York and Newcastle did have green painted 0-6-0T pilots, but they were J72s.

 

Edit:  What he said ^^

Edited January 13, 2016 by 31A

[great northern]

I hope Great Northern will indulge me in a little off-topic meander...

 

The Colour of Steam Vol 9 - The Great Eastern Line by R C Riley - has some good pictures of the two Liverpool Street pilots.

 

In the text he recounts how he "...asked Ted Carron, local running foreman, if he would be kind enough to arrange for them to be turned to face into the sun. Rather to my surprise he agreed to do so, providing a unique photograph..."

 

A charming tale and I must say the two loco's look superb in the sunshine, gleaming and sparkling amidst the grime of the Liverpool Street loco lines.

 

The book also has a photo' of the J69 E8619 in 1951 in apple green with "British Railways" lettered out in full on the tanks, although it's not as spotlessly clean as it was in blue it's still a worth a look.

 

Chaz

Thanks Chaz. I knew I had that photo, but couldn't remember which book it was in. It is dated 1957, when both engines were black, but looking at later b&w shots of 8619 the blue almost looks like black, especially when the loco was under the roof. I was sure I'd seen a photo of both in blue, but I think that is what must have thrown me.

[great northern]

Yesterday I bought some lighter coloured card to cover the bits that were coming out grey, and causing problems when photoshopping. An experimental fitting has taken place this morning. And the result? Peter Leyland has done some lovely subtle weathering to the roofs of the buildings, and guess what? Paint.Net gleefully leaps on these bits as being very similar to the newly installed card, and duly obliterates them still. I do not have a Plan C.

 

I do though have a couple of images still in the bank, so here is a somewhat less cropped South end shot.

The pilot has propelled in the stock for the 1130 Edinburgh departure, and the fireman is even now retracing the route to retrieve the lamp what fell off on the way up from Nene sidings.

And I do like the way this one turned out.

[Mallard60022]

The Newcastle Pilot was a 'pet' and I'm sure the York one was too as both engines were kept clean, unlike their shed mates. The ES1s were also painted in NE Green in the early 60s, lined out & with both NER and BR Heraldic Motifs (so I don't get told again that they are not Crests!) 

The Peterborough Pilot(s) were obviously not 'pets' (sadly); well, not to the Shed staff but maybe for us.

[jwealleans]

That would have been a J72 Jonathan. 68723 springs to mind.

It was a J72 I had in my mind's eye, certainly. Couldn't be sure of the number. Googling suggests there may have been a few in green.

[LNER4479]

It was a J72 I had in my mind's eye, certainly. Couldn't be sure of the number. Googling suggests there may have been a few in green.

Oh no! He's losing it - all them teak coaching stock vehicles taking their toll, no doubt.... Nurse! Quick - administer some wagon kits at once

[jwealleans]

Yes, please. Would you like a wishlist?

[Oldddudders]

That would have been a J72 Jonathan. 68723 springs to mind. 8619 was always a Stratford pet, and used as Liverpool Street pilot.

My '61/2 Ian Allan Combined Volume confirms that I saw 68619, as well as one other J69, 68565. I have no idea where that might have been.

 

Unsurprisingly I didn't see any J72s, but the entire block of J72s is crossed through to indicate withdrawal - with the conspicuous exception of 68723, as suggested by Gilbert. It does rather suggest it was someone's pet and survived a while after its mates.

 

Edit : My certainty about the J69 being blue is due to bumping into a skoolmate at Liv St that day. We admired 68619 and David asked if it was blue - he was colour-blind.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Oldddudders

[jon_1066]

Yesterday I bought some lighter coloured card to cover the bits that were coming out grey, and causing problems when photoshopping. An experimental fitting has taken place this morning. And the result? Peter Leyland has done some lovely subtle weathering to the roofs of the buildings, and guess what? Paint.Net gleefully leaps on these bits as being very similar to the newly installed card, and duly obliterates them still. I do not have a Plan C.

 

I do though have a couple of images still in the bank, so here is a somewhat less cropped South end shot.

Ivatt and pilot.jpg

The pilot has propelled in the stock for the 1130 Edinburgh departure, and the fireman is even now retracing the route to retrieve the lamp what fell off on the way up from Nene sidings.

3084.jpg

And I do like the way this one turned out.

 

Have you considered some shade of green?  You don't have much in the way of foliage and what works for Harry Potter should work for you.

 

Fab photos by the way.

[great northern]

It was a J72 I had in my mind's eye, certainly. Couldn't be sure of the number. Googling suggests there may have been a few in green.

Photograph in Eastern steam in colour shows 68723 at Gateshead shed in pristine apple green, and with both BR and NER emblems on the tank sides. The caption states this was applied in May 1960, and that York's 68736 got the same treatment at the same time. It also states that 8736 moved to Gateshead a year later, and that both were withdrawn in Autumn 1961.

[CUTLER2579]

It was a J72 I had in my mind's eye, certainly. Couldn't be sure of the number. Googling suggests there may have been a few in green.

 

Now listen Mr Wealleans if that error was on another thread the gentleman would be saying 100 lines Wealleans "I must not confuse a Holden J69 with a Worsdell  J72"                  by Friday morning.          You can stop laughing as well King.

Regards.

[Alister_G]

Yesterday I bought some lighter coloured card to cover the bits that were coming out grey, and causing problems when photoshopping. An experimental fitting has taken place this morning. And the result? Peter Leyland has done some lovely subtle weathering to the roofs of the buildings, and guess what? Paint.Net gleefully leaps on these bits as being very similar to the newly installed card, and duly obliterates them still. I do not have a Plan C.

 

I may have a plan "C" for you.

 

When you use the magic wand to select areas, there is a "tolerance" setting which is shown in the top bar, (it appears as a blue bar with a percentage figure) and by default it is set to 50% which means it's not very discriminating.

 

If you lower the percentage, it will become more exacting about what it includes when selecting an area.

 

It will require some fiddling for you to find a level which works, but it should be able to be set so it only selects your background bits. Obviously, if Peter's roofs are exactly the same colour, then it will still select them, but lowering the tolerance should improve things a great deal over what it does by default.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Al.

Edited January 13, 2016 by acg_mr

[lanchester]

Photograph in Eastern steam in colour shows 68723 at Gateshead shed in pristine apple green, and with both BR and NER emblems on the tank sides. The caption states this was applied in May 1960, and that York's 68736 got the same treatment at the same time. It also states that 8736 moved to Gateshead a year later, and that both were withdrawn in Autumn 1961.

I think the caption must be in error. According to RCTS Green Book (not infallible, but pretty good), 68723 w/dn 9/63, and 68736  in 10/63. I certainly have fond memories of the former (at the East end of Newcastle, beside me in a dmu - front seat looking past the driver, obviously - en route to see Grandmother in Hexham. In Autumn 1961 I would have been just 4, doubt I would have the memories and not sure if Gran had actually moved to Hexham by then. In 63 I was at skule, wel groan up and wif one knotbuk and pensil for numbres. SO! 

But it is certainly true that '36 came north to Newcastle. My impression is that the latter tended to be West End, and 23 the East End (including I think shifting stock in and out of the Motorail or whatever it was then called bays.

[Mallard60022]

Yup, I saw it/them in 1962 so the Green Book is incorrect  ...... yea!

Phil

[barry.wilson]

Don't forget York also had J71 68286 in lined LNER and BR green when it was the station pilot

[great northern]

The Newcastle Pilot was a 'pet' and I'm sure the York one was too as both engines were kept clean, unlike their shed mates. The ES1s were also painted in NE Green in the early 60s, lined out & with both NER and BR Heraldic Motifs (so I don't get told again that they are not Crests!) 

The Peterborough Pilot(s) were obviously not 'pets' (sadly); well, not to the Shed staff but maybe for us.

I can see why the specially treated pilots were kept clean, but I think the more interesting question is why a few locos always seemed to be the ones to get special treatment. 68619 was also singled out for special treatment as E8619 back in 1948, when it was the only J69 so far as I know to get apple green livery post war.  I think the same may be true of the NE J72s. I do wonder why one loco was chosen for special treatment over a long period. Stratford after all had a lot of J67/69s to choose from.

 

The same applied to a degree at Lincoln. We had eight or nine J69s, but thestation pilot was always 68599, except when under repair or servicing. It wasn't kept particularly clean, but it did the job year in year out. Come to think of it, wasn't there a loco in Edinburgh that did the same pilot duty for the whole of its existence? Very strange.

[great northern]

I think the caption must be in error. According to RCTS Green Book (not infallible, but pretty good), 68723 w/dn 9/63, and 68736  in 10/63. I certainly have fond memories of the former (at the East end of Newcastle, beside me in a dmu - front seat looking past the driver, obviously - en route to see Grandmother in Hexham. In Autumn 1961 I would have been just 4, doubt I would have the memories and not sure if Gran had actually moved to Hexham by then. In 63 I was at skule, wel groan up and wif one knotbuk and pensil for numbres. SO! 

But it is certainly true that '36 came north to Newcastle. My impression is that the latter tended to be West End, and 23 the East End (including I think shifting stock in and out of the Motorail or whatever it was then called bays.

I must say I raised my eyebrows a bit when I saw that withdrawal date, but I was too idle to check up on it.

[great northern]

I may have a plan "C" for you.

 

When you use the magic wand to select areas, there is a "tolerance" setting which is shown in the top bar, (it appears as a blue bar with a percentage figure) and by default it is set to 50% which means it's not very discriminating.

 

If you lower the percentage, it will become more exacting about what it includes when selecting an area.

 

It will require some fiddling for you to find a level which works, but it should be able to be set so it only selects your background bits. Obviously, if Peter's roofs are exactly the same colour, then it will still select them, but lowering the tolerance should improve things a great deal over what it does by default.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Al.

 I did know about the tolerance setting Al. I soon found out that left as default it would wipe out more or less everything. I fiddle with it constantly, but it doesn't seem to be a very precise tool. Having said that I am using a free programme, so can't expect it to be as good as the expensive ones. It does seem to behave in a fairly random way too. Click on one part of an expanse of the same colour and it will take out a chunk I don't want, but put the cursor an inch to one side and it doesn't.

[chaz]

 ....It does seem to behave in a fairly random way too. Click on one part of an expanse of the same colour and it will take out a chunk I don't want, but put the cursor an inch to one side and it doesn't.

 

That will be because of the colour of the pixel you happened to click on - which is what the program "reads" before it does the edit. Zoom right into almost any digital photograph and you will discover that there is a surprising variation in the colour of the pixels which make up an even, flat expanse of colour. It's not a huge problem providing your software has an "undo" button. You can have a few quick tries with various settings and "click" points to get the best effect.