When does a trainset become a model railway - what's your criteria?

[Martino]

They’re all trainsets or layouts until one goes out in the garden (or other outside area) and prepares a trackbed, following the landscape. Then go through the constant maintenance  of a 1:1 line.  Any structures have to be capable of withstanding the elements - like a 1:1 line. Then, my son, you have created a railway………

[MartinRS]

5 hours ago, dcordingley said:

Very easy to overthink this whole issue. I operate a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, which I regard very much as a trainset. I also have a 4mm scale layout based upon a quarter mile or so of the WCML in the North West: I think of this as a model railway. Perhaps what delineates the former from the latter is the use of set pieces of trackwork ("setrack" in modern-speak)?

 

David C.     

From the age of four to about the age of six I had a Tri-ang train set to which I added more set-track. It was still a train set. It became a model railway when I created a papier-mâché hill (with a final layer of green crepe paper) and added a couple of inexpertly built Airfix and Super-quick buildings. I had, hoverer crudely, modelled a landscape. I didn't discover flexible track until I was about ten years of age.

[DCB]

3 hours ago, Martino said:

They’re all trainsets or layouts until one goes out in the garden (or other outside area) and prepares a trackbed, following the landscape. Then go through the constant maintenance  of a 1:1 line.  Any structures have to be capable of withstanding the elements - like a 1:1 line. Then, my son, you have created a railway………

But that is a small railway, not a model, 
For me A Model Railway. either looks like or operates like a Railway or both.  I think the L&Y signalling school had a fully signalled one pre 1923 with Stations signal boxes but no scenery what so ever.   That was a model Railway .

Rev W Awdrey had a 6X4 ish continuous run "Ffarquar" it operated end to end and was very definitely a model railway, it operated as regards the viewer as a Railway and looked like a model of a railway.
Garsdale Road by David Jenkinson was a continuous run but very definitely a model railway.
Technically re full size A Train Set is a loco and coaches /wagons or self propelled set of coaches.
I suppose a "Train Set" is a random arrangement of tracks to allow trains to run, like the Hornby teat track on the TV program,    Generally with ready to use items randomly arrayed with little or no regard to railway practices or operation.  This can be on the floor or a purpose built table.  I had several  which were great fun especially the ones we took on holiday. 
That's not a model Railway,    I suppose it is a Layout.     There are examples where someone has spent many thousands of pounds on new equipment and assembled it with multiple tracks and multiple levels on a purpose built table with no attempt at realism and they believe its a model railway layout, and its up to them,

I (don't) take modelling very seriously, my Layout "Ugleigh" operates like a full size railway with regular strikes, late running, missed connections, wagons delivered to the wrong destinations,  My businesses are plausible, Lyon Toade Solicitors, Hammas Mining Consultants, The Salvation Army Tank Corps, A&R Goss for instance.  R.Sole coal merchants did manage to upset someone once.   It is important to me that my stock is relevant to the era and location of the layout.  Perhaps 30928 "Borstal", never got to the WR mainline and there never was a 7930 "That's Hall"  but you won't find  a Scottish allocated Black 5 double heading  an S&DJR 7F for instance.
Somewhere between Train Set and Model Railway is the highly detailed infrastructure stuffed with inappropriate and often unfinished and unpainted stock beloved by exhibitors,  stations which operated one engine in steam absolutely stuffed with stock, with a service level which rivals the central line (London not Isle of Wight) .  That is neither train set nor model railway to me, 

Edited February 22 by DCB

[97406]

A train set to me is a basic oval of track that gets assembled each time on the carpet or a table. Once it becomes more permanently set up then it starts to become a model railway.

 

I sometimes think of the use of set track on scenic sections as a bit ‘train set’ but that was after creating one of my first reasonable scenic “main line” layouts as a kid which was all set track, and then noticing how strange full length a MK3 coaches looked going round the curves and through the points. How anybody walking through the corridors at the time would have made it through in one piece really started to make my teeth itch! It eventually got ripped up and replaced with something more sweeping. For a small industrial layout set track is not so ‘train set’ though.

 

 

[Wheatley]

It depends who I'm talking to about it.  If it's a fellow weirdo then it's a model railway, to anyone else it's a trainset because at any non-believer level the difference is pretentious.

 

Unless it would be more fun to wind them up by calling it a Performance Art Installation. 

[Not Jeremy]

Never!

 

[Captain Kernow]

Why does it matter whether it's called a train set or a model railway? Why is this important to some folk?

 

[Flying Pig]

13 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Why does it matter whether it's called a train set or a model railway? Why is this important to some folk?

 

 

We've got to have boundaries, or how would we know which side we were on?  Stands to reason.

[Gilbert]

I think a train set becomes someone's model railway as soon as the bits are out of the box and set up.....

Chris H

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Not Jeremy said:

Never!

 

 

I get the feeling that the dog isn't impressed...

 

[DCB]

3 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Never!

 

 

Lots of questions, Is it glued down or pinned, did you drill the floorboard for droppers and install the wiring before laying the floor, what sort of ballast will you use, does it run to a timetable?  I can't decide whether it's a model railway, a Train Set, Performance art or what ever.  Is it a wind up?  or electric.

Edited February 22 by DCB

[Michael Hodgson]

20 hours ago, westernviscount said:

 Carpet dwelling track is a trainset.

 

Well that's put Sam in his place! 😁

[Michael Hodgson]

9 hours ago, DCB said:

 I think the L&Y signalling school had a fully signalled one pre 1923 with Stations signal boxes but no scenery what so ever.   That was a model Railway .

 

 

It was a training school.  Various similar setups have existed for the same purpose of staff training.

 

It still exists and is still run at the NRM

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/whats-on/signalling-demonstration

[Hroth]

I remember that on one episode of QI, Sandi Toksvig claimed she had a model railway running on a shelf around the skirting board in her office. The loco appeared to be a Hornby Jinty in S&DR livery...

 

 

[Chris M]

They are all toy trains really. Everyone will have their own set of wants to class their layout as a model railway. Nobody is right or wrong, just different opinions which are all equally valid. Everyone should do whatever makes them happy and nobody should criticise them.

 

having said that here are my criteria for a model railway:-

1 Rail sides must be painted. Shiny bright rail sides really does mean train set.

2. Weathered stock. Unweathered stock straight out of the box just looks plasticky and so train set.

3. Buffer details added. Locos on proper model railways have hoses and couplings on the front buffer beams. Train sets have holes in the buffer beams.

4. Reasonably believable train formations. Too many train sets at exhibitions feature a diesel hauling brightly coloured seven plank coal wagons. I’m all for folk doing whatever they want in the privacy of their own home but that sort of thing should never be seen in public.

5. This may be a tad controversial. A train set is where tracks have been laid on a flat board and scenery built around it. A proper model railway recognises that land is never absolutely level (except for the workers houses at Swindon) and land height is often lower than the level of the track. It appears to me that most train set builders are members of the flat earth society.

 

Well that’s how I judge things. Others will have different criteria and that is fine by me. I would never say anyone doing any of the above is wrong , they just have different equally valid criteria. The most important thing is to enjoy what you are doing.

Edited February 22 by Chris M

[goldfish]

Doesn't a Train Set become a Model Railway when the owner gets too old to admit to playing with Toy trains ...

[PhilH]

23 hours ago, sjrixon said:

I disagree - I don't let time get in the way of realistic operation. There are actually quite a few nice articles that have been written about running to a sped up clock. 

What's realistic about a sped up clock?

[sncf231e]

1 hour ago, goldfish said:

Doesn't a Train Set become a Model Railway when the owner gets too old to admit to playing with Toy trains ...

I might be a bit old already (born in 1950) but assume I will always admit that I am playing with toy trains. 

Regards

Fred

[Steamport Southport]

Some on here might need to buy a dictionary.

 

Toy and model have very different meanings....

 

 

 

Jason

[ovbulleid]

IMHo there are a couple of elements which elevate a train set into a model railway.

 

1) are you left unable to see the original board because it has been entirely covered by ballast, scenery, road, buildings etc. If the latter, it’s a model railway.

 

2) does it have some form of undulation? If the latter, it’s a model railway.

 

3) does it have some form of mechanisation? That can include points controlled by piano wire and other alternatives. 
 

4) do you run kit built locomotives or rolling stock? Do the buildings have any sort of modification (lighting, smoke, people and furniture), have buildings been custom built?
 

5) is it based on a real location?

 

I think if you answer yes to any of those, it’s a model railway. 

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, ovbulleid said:

2) does it have some form of undulation? If the latter, it’s a model railway.

 

 

However real railways were built perfectly flat!

 

Apart from the road up to the coaling stage which is artificial and put in when the coaling stage was built, please point out any undulations here....

 

 

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/310/the-1932-engine-shed-when-new

 

 

Jason

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 21/02/2024 at 14:14, leopardml2341 said:

...what you think is needed to turn a trainset into a model railway?

It's all in your state of mind, man...

[Nearholmer]

On 21/02/2024 at 14:14, leopardml2341 said:

Just wondering what you think is needed to turn a trainset into a model railway?

Pretentiousness?

[Hroth]

I'm toying 🤪 with contrapting an O gauge trainset using Peco set track*.  Basically a simple BLT representing a freelance "heritage railway", it won't have much in the way of scenery beyond the railway fence and the ballasting will consist of "granite effect" spray paint applied before laying the track. I may have a bash at "signalling", but operation will be by hand**.

 

Stock is a mix of old Lima and Slaters wagons, rather newer Peco wagons, a Dapol Autocoach and Dapol locos (a 14xx and an 08 diesel shunter).

 

The older stock may well be worked over with weathering powder, but I'm not going near the locos with the stuff!  So yes, perhaps a bit more than a train set, maybe a layout but not a model railway as some folk would  define such things.  I don't give a flying 'eff.

 

* Set track, rolling stock and locos bought at bargain prices, so its as inexpensive as possible .

** Given that 3 link couplings imply a Hand of God operating methodology, I won't be bothering with point motors or under-board rodding either!

 

 

[Nearholmer]

5 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Why does it matter whether it's called a train set or a model railway? Why is this important to some folk?

I’m surprised you need to ask:

 

- first we have a thing;

 

- then we have another thing, which is a tiny bit different from the first thing;

 

- then, to avoid confusion, especially among people who struggle a bit with ambiguity or gradation, we create a hard, defined boundary between the two things;

 

- then we arbitrarily define one thing as better, morally superior, to the other  thing;

 

- then some people who engage in the declared morally superior thing can pour scorn , derision, and later perhaps even hatred, upon those who engage in the other thing;

 

- this makes some people feel big, and others feel small, and all too often it gets taken to extremes and leads to physical as well as verbal abuse, and one day that ramps-up and someone gets killed;

 

- then there is revenge, and more killing, and eventually a war, in which huge numbers of people get killed;

 

- when enough people have been killed, and bestial cruelty unleashed, regret eventually sets in;

 

- then everyone looks at the two things, and realises that the two things actually have more features in common than differences, so they decide to call them “one thing”;

 

- return to start, and begin again.

 

 

Edited February 22 by Nearholmer