New Palvan announced

[Southernman46]

Some of these also ended up Air-braked like certain OHB & VVB's for the AB Network.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brpalvanvpb

 

I've completed two kits one a standard 4 shoe Morton version and the other of an AB version mating the kit body with the FAT26 AB underframe kit. I'll be supplementing these with singles of both the Bachmann versions and any subsequent "A" suffix releases - there were never many around in the late 70's so 4-6 will suffice.

Edited March 19 by Southernman46

[Porcy Mane]

54 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

PALVAN saga, and subsequent (unsuccessful) efforts

 

Of which, some were still running into the 1980's & beyond.

 

 

[C126]

Sorry for both being dim and dragging this (a little) off-topic, but were not vans without full-width doors (e.g., Vanfit, Vanwide, VIX Ferry-van) loaded with pallets using a man with a pallet-truck aboard?  How was the full length of a wagon used if not?  Or were pallets not loaded into such wagons?  Thanks.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Of which, some were still running into the 1980's & beyond.

 

 

 

Not being any kind of expert in such matters, I merely repeat what others, far more knowledgeable than me, have published.

 

CJI.

[rorz101uk]

5 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Of which, some were still running into the 1980's & beyond.

 

 

Surprised its twin piped!

[Southernman46]

Converted relatively early before the single pipe era

[steve1]

19 hours ago, Stuart A said:

Wonder if the exhibition train version will make an appearance?

 

 

 

Possible Bachmann Collectors Club limited edition?

 

steve

[Hal Nail]

15 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Of which, some were still running into the 1980's & beyond.

 

 

Are those Dowty buffers - thick housing but spindly shank? I didn't realise they hung around that late.

[Dunsignalling]

23 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

This is all very well, but the accident report (above) seems clear to me in that the uneven wheel-load problem, which caused extreme ocsillation and rail-jumping, was the basic design error of having heavy doors on diagonally opposite corners.

 

Poor loading could be a factor, but were the derailed wagons not empty?

 

CJI.

They were indeed.

 

However, the weight discrepancy of 0.6 tons between the "door" and "plain" corners, revealed by the investigation, could/would/should have been eradicated simply by ballasting the underframe in the appropriate areas.

 

Modifying the suspension, alone, would not have tackled the issue.

 

Getting back to the model, having already produced the FAT26 air-braked underframe for the Vanwide, Bachmann have presumably chosen this van to allow its further use in portraying the later rebuilds.

 

John 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Dunsignalling

[Covkid]

13 hours ago, rorz101uk said:

Surprised its twin piped!

 

10 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Converted relatively early before the single pipe era

 

Yes. Lets not forget that the huge majority of indigenous airbraked vehicles on British rails were two piped.  AFAIK all the MGR hoppers HEA nee HBA, air braked vans VAx-VGA, steel carriers Bxxs and Sxxs, and of course all the passenger coaching stock anyway.  Not forgetting the bogie ballast hoppers like Sealions and Seacows too.  IT is only really from the late 1980s onwards that the reservoirs, pipework and yellow bufferbeam cocks were removed    

[locoholic]

On 19/03/2024 at 07:27, Dunsignalling said:

When new, providing they were evenly loaded, the Palvans shouldn't have been any worse than ordinary vans, with which they shared common underframes.

 

Had they been restricted to traffic flows with suitable facilities at either end, there should have been no problem but that was, too often, not the case. 

 

The problem with the design was (quite predictably) that it was not possible to load/unload from both sides at most locations, so they frequently ended up loaded at one end, and empty at the other.

 

That alone would have led to instability, but it also created uneven wear on the suspension and running gear at either end, which, as they got older, meant they remained unstable even if loaded properly.

 

Some were eventually employed (presumably after overhaul) as barrier wagons, with the doors secured to prevent loading. I remember seeing them passing through Poole on nuclear flask traffic to/from Winfrith power station. Late 1970s/early 80s, IIRC.

 

John

 

 

Am I correct in thinking that for a Palvan to be evenly loaded, it required access from both sides? There must have been plenty of locations where this wasn't possible.

[Fat Controller]

26 minutes ago, locoholic said:

Am I correct in thinking that for a Palvan to be evenly loaded, it required access from both sides? There must have been plenty of locations where this wasn't possible.

You could turn a pallet truck in the width of a wagon, but it wasn't easy.

[C126]

2 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

You could turn a pallet truck in the width of a wagon, but it wasn't easy.

 

So can one say a general rule was: 'Vanfits, etc., were used only for non-palleted sundries'?  I know there will have been many exceptions, but...

 

 

[Southernman46]

Let's face it they were ill-designed vehicles from a practical point of view because that's what happens in the real world - I mean why would the driver of a digger on a track renewal site bother that he's left the last two buckets of ballast remaining in a RUDD wagon over one wheel - because he doesn't understand and trains is someone else's problem ....................... add a minor track defect and I ended up with an interesting couple of days .....................

 

Edited March 20 by Southernman46
grammar

[hmrspaul]

21 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Of which, some were still running into the 1980's & beyond.

 

 

This shows the UIC double link suspension that the Modern Railways article discusses and solved the problem. Apparently too late as the vast majority of the vans had gone for scrap or into internal use. 

 

This is an example of a VB van with UIC suspension https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brpalvan/e30c345d3  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brpalvan/e346c91e4

 

This is the exhibition AB van as mentioned in 1989 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brpalvanvpb/ee531ddc

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

6 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Are those Dowty buffers - thick housing but spindly shank? I didn't realise they hung around that late.

Rather OT but an interesting observation.

 

I have found a standard van in 1980 with such a buffer https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brvanplywooddoorvvv/e35787e62 They are also on some Conflat As later - but these were engineers wagons by then. So, it does look like through the later 1970s they were systematically removed from many wagons built with them. They are easy to find on my photos of VB minerals in Wellingborough in 1975 but the same lots taken later have Oleo pneumatic - sometimes still in green undercoat. 

 

Paul

[KeithMacdonald]

On 18/03/2024 at 10:38, Wheatley said:

now the Bachman model is more than twice the price of the Parkside kit, if you can find one.

 

£14.95 from various online

e.g.

https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/parkside-pc65-oo-gauge-br-12t-pallet-van-palvan-kit

and

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/parkside-pc65-br-12-ton-pallet-van-palvan

etc

 

[Wheatley]

Thanks, although it was Bachmann 16 tonners I meant - they are/were sold out whenever I've been looking for them. 

Edited March 20 by Wheatley

[Hal Nail]

A couple of palvans at Alton this morning. Variations in the buffers, axleboxes and brake gear between these two. Both having repairs to the door timbers which are gradually rotting away.

 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Hal Nail

[D9020 Nimbus]

At least in their N gauge range, Bachmann issued a number of triple packs of wagons — ventilated vans, cattle wagons and mineral wagons at least. I believe some/most were weathered. And the N gauge "Birdcage" coaches were made in 3-sets. It's quite a few years ago now, though. Rapido are also doing sets of their N gauge wagons (at least the SECR ones and I think the GW too).

 

I'm primarily into N gauge so don't remember whether this happened in OO. But Dapol certainly did sets of 5 bulk grain wagons — again weathered — using the old HD SD6 body tooling.

[hmrspaul]

Are they in SR brown? 😒

 

Paul

[21D]

As promised I've located a further source for information about the GWR/BR Pallet vans to V40:

 

Great Western Journal No 10 of Spring 1994: this includes lots of data about which vans were converted from Diagram V12, speculation on building dates AND a 1:120 scale/TT scale plan of the rebuilds. According to the article at least one was marked ‘Return to ROF Glasoed Usk’ which suggests military usage at some time as well as others returning to Kirkcudbright ScR and Port Sunlight LMR for traffic streams previously mentioned on the forum.

 

As noted earlier The 4 mm wagon Part 2 by Geoff Kent contains several pages on the V40 including construction notes and other information on the mainstream BR Palvans. Geoff used information in the Great Western Journal to construct his model.

 

The Historic wagons register lists two wagon bodies rotting on farms in the UK but I don’t know if they are still extant. And that's all I know about the elusive V40 conversions.

 

However, there are the three prototype BR Pallet van(s) to D2177 converted from standard LMS vans in 1950 mentioned on page 179 with a 4 mm scale plan and photo in Essery’s Illustrated History of LMS wagons. I think someone mentioned these vans ‘up-thread’. These had double sliding doors and seem to be a ‘proof of concept’ for the later BR ‘Vanwides’. A 4 mm body and 7 mm sides are made by 5D Stoke on ‘Shapeways’

 

Regards

 

Martin

 

[Michael Hodgson]

On 20/03/2024 at 18:23, 21D said:

According to the article at least one was marked ‘Return to ROF Glasoed Usk’ which suggests military usage at some time as well as others returning to Kirkcudbright ScR and Port Sunlight LMR for traffic streams previously mentioned on the forum.

 

 

Oh dear.  The last thing you want to load ammo into is a wagon that is known to ride badly and be prone to derailments!

 

By the way, that should read Glascoed.

[Fredo]

Hi, I know your summer announcement is next week and looking forward to your new products and what code the pallet vans are going to carry. Fred