HealeyMills Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 I actually ended up filing the valve I made it a bit lower as I thought it too tall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Not a great deal to show for a days work today but I spent time fixing the all handles in place that I fitted yesterday, the bent handrails on top of the loco body and getting the seats and parking brake wheel sorted ready for painting: Also you've seen the water cooling system relief valve that I made plus there is one little extra that I managed this evening. After much to'ing and fro'ing with solder and bits of brass pinging everywhere I managed, with a lot of help and guidance from Mr Grumpy of this parish (thank you!!), to get the AWS protector made: On the face of it, this piece doesn't look much but it measures 5.5mm x 9.3mm so it's not large by any means. It is made from 0.5mm x 0.9mm brass section and follows a pattern (not exact) from several reference photos. I shall add it to the loco tomorrow as I need to drill four holes in the buffer beam to fit it behind the screw link coupling. I think it's time for a glass of red wine Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee , Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2016 I actually ended up filing the valve I made it a bit lower as I thought it too tall Yes well, I didn't like to say it looks a couple of inches too long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 I thought making two of the coupling guards would be the difficult bit... how wrong was I!! Fitting them was a right pain in the.... I have amazed myself at how strong the solder joint is/ can be as I needed to use a small amount of force to get them embedded into the underside of the buffer beam. However, in making these I think I've moved a step in the right direction with soldering. Firstly I wasn't cleaning the parts to be soldered properly and secondly, when soldering I did not make sure the part were held well enough. As soon as I applied the iron I was immediately chasing bits about the table. Lessons learned I almost feel inspired enough to have a go at a brass wagon at some point in the future Anyway, using a 0.9mm drill bit it did not leave much scope for things to go horribly wrong, leading to an unsightly hole in the buffer beam. But after a little patience, I managed to fit both of the guards and a few last detail bits too: No.2 end (I can't seem to straighten out the windscreen wiper either ) No.1 end The items that I have painted previously such as headcode discs, hand rails, lamp irons etc etc I am going to strip and re-do. Firstly because in getting rid of any flash/ sprue fixings I have taken away a little more paint that I thought and secondly, because I am going to spray them and hopefully get a better finish. As you can see from the photos the paint finish is not great at all. You will also notice the absence of the engine bay and nose end hand rails that I fitted yesterday. I took these off once I knew they were good as I don't want to get them damaged so they have been labelled and set aside once the blue overcoat is on. Ok, so I have a couple of things I need to sort out and I wondered if anyone here can help: 1. What to use for cleaning the model prior to spraying (I've asked this before but not had anyone comment so far)? 2. Any recommendations for transfers/ decals as the loco numbers are smaller than standard TOPS number sets, I guess because of the era or perhaps the Scottish numerals that were smaller? 3. What wire do people use for connecting LED's, does anyone use the enameled wire? Hopefully I will get a couple of responses as I'm just researching bits for the future now until I get back home to collect the Shawplan grille and plastic to make the AWS detector. There isn't too much that I can do now until I get the cab parts sprayed, detailed and fixed together. Then I'm in a position to join the front and rear cab components along with the loco body. I have spent a bit of time looking into using the tower/ lens part of the LEDs I have along with some very small SMDs. The reason behind this is that the tower LEDs are going to stick out into the cab from the No 2 end front. I was thinking that using smaller LEDs may help me hide this and not make them so conspicuous in the cab... which incidentally you can see straight into because of the large windows. Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2016 .1. I have heard people use a product called "Shiney Sinks" although personally I have only used Ciff. .2. Fox transfers is usual first port of call. .3. I use the very small DCC wire, enamelled wire is fine but I am still a little cautious over shorting. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/hookup-equipment-wire/2094811/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hi Lee, A few of us myself included use Vikal to clean our models before spraying, it certainly removes any flux residues etc. Regards, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Grumpy Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Lee, Glad to hear you are considering an etched wagon kit. Take a look at Jim's site... He is extremely helpful and he has a range of interesting wagons for the 'beginner' . My first 7mm etched kit was his BR 20t brake van. It went together beautifully and was a massive confidence builder! http://www.jimmcgeown.com/0%20gauge%20locomotives.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 One littlething I don't think you have done yet is the horn cover on the roof. On the kit they stop short so need extending with a bit of plasticard and then a bit of filler where they join. You can see where I did it on my JLTRT 20151. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I thought making two of the coupling guards would be the difficult bit... how wrong was I!! Fitting them was a right pain in the.... I have amazed myself at how strong the solder joint is/ can be as I needed to use a small amount of force to get them embedded into the underside of the buffer beam. However, in making these I think I've moved a step in the right direction with soldering. Firstly I wasn't cleaning the parts to be soldered properly and secondly, when soldering I did not make sure the part were held well enough. As soon as I applied the iron I was immediately chasing bits about the table. Lessons learned I almost feel inspired enough to have a go at a brass wagon at some point in the future Anyway, using a 0.9mm drill bit it did not leave much scope for things to go horribly wrong, leading to an unsightly hole in the buffer beam. But after a little patience, I managed to fit both of the guards and a few last detail bits too: 71. No 2 end with coupling guard.jpg No.2 end (I can't seem to straighten out the windscreen wiper either ) 72. No 1 end with coupling guard.jpg No.1 end The items that I have painted previously such as headcode discs, hand rails, lamp irons etc etc I am going to strip and re-do. Firstly because in getting rid of any flash/ sprue fixings I have taken away a little more paint that I thought and secondly, because I am going to spray them and hopefully get a better finish. As you can see from the photos the paint finish is not great at all. You will also notice the absence of the engine bay and nose end hand rails that I fitted yesterday. I took these off once I knew they were good as I don't want to get them damaged so they have been labelled and set aside once the blue overcoat is on. Ok, so I have a couple of things I need to sort out and I wondered if anyone here can help: 1. What to use for cleaning the model prior to spraying (I've asked this before but not had anyone comment so far)? 2. Any recommendations for transfers/ decals as the loco numbers are smaller than standard TOPS number sets, I guess because of the era or perhaps the Scottish numerals that were smaller? 3. What wire do people use for connecting LED's, does anyone use the enameled wire? Hopefully I will get a couple of responses as I'm just researching bits for the future now until I get back home to collect the Shawplan grille and plastic to make the AWS detector. There isn't too much that I can do now until I get the cab parts sprayed, detailed and fixed together. Then I'm in a position to join the front and rear cab components along with the loco body. I have spent a bit of time looking into using the tower/ lens part of the LEDs I have along with some very small SMDs. The reason behind this is that the tower LEDs are going to stick out into the cab from the No 2 end front. I was thinking that using smaller LEDs may help me hide this and not make them so conspicuous in the cab... which incidentally you can see straight into because of the large windows. Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee For the lighting, why not use 0805 SMD leds mounted on a piece of thin copper-clad circuit board using small lengths of fibre-optic (of a suitable diameter) for the lenses. With a bit of "fettling" most of the the lighting board should be hidden behind the control desk in the cab end. Paint the rear of the circuit board matt black, and if needed use small pieces of black-tack to stop any rear light bleed from the LED's into the cab area. Fine copper enameled magnet wire could be used, or ESU DCC decoder wire - being only 0.6mm in dia. Some ScR 20's had larger than standard tops no's, (ex St Rollox works) but the number size will depend on which class member you intend to model ? HTH Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Lee, A few of us myself included use Vikal to clean our models before spraying, it certainly removes any flux residues etc. Regards, Martyn. Hi Martyn, Thank you for your reply. Does this act as a degreasing agent? It sounds like goods stuff... and useful for the bathroom when I've finished cleaning the model Lee, Glad to hear you are considering an etched wagon kit. Take a look at Jim's site... He is extremely helpful and he has a range of interesting wagons for the 'beginner' . My first 7mm etched kit was his BR 20t brake van. It went together beautifully and was a massive confidence builder! http://www.jimmcgeown.com/0%20gauge%20locomotives.html Hi Grumps, Thanks for the link I shall have a look at the site and perhaps order something One littlething I don't think you have done yet is the horn cover on the roof. On the kit they stop short so need extending with a bit of plasticard and then a bit of filler where they join. You can see where I did it on my JLTRT 20151. Hi Brian, That's another thing I'd missed I've just remembered that you added an extra valve/ drain at the side of one of the battery boxes..... It looks like you used brass tube and some nickle silver wire. I think I need to sit down and really study the class 20 more. A great idea for extending those horn grille plates, what would I do without you keeping an eye on this build?? For the lighting, why not use 0805 SMD leds mounted on a piece of thin copper-clad circuit board using small lengths of fibre-optic (of a suitable diameter) for the lenses. With a bit of "fettling" most of the the lighting board should be hidden behind the control desk in the cab end. Paint the rear of the circuit board matt black, and if needed use small pieces of black-tack to stop any rear light bleed from the LED's into the cab area. Fine copper enameled magnet wire could be used, or ESU DCC decoder wire - being only 0.6mm in dia. Some ScR 20's had larger than standard tops no's, (ex St Rollox works) but the number size will depend on which class member you intend to model ? HTH Ken Hi Ken, That is a good suggestion. I had thought about using fibre-optics but wasn't sure if they were made in red as I need red lenses for the tail lights. I must admit though I'm not looking forward to soldering the 0805 SMD's. The locos numbered at St Rollox did seem to have a different type set and I know some numbers were smaller and other, larger... eg 26 & 27's. The photo I have of the loco has a Bescot (BS) deport allocation sticker on and must have just been transferred to Eastfield in approx 1983 ish??? The numbers are definitely smaller than normal though so I just need to source these. Many thanks to everyone who has commented, I really appreciate everyones help here and it makes for a good resource for other RMWebbers!! Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Ken, That is a good suggestion. I had thought about using fibre-optics but wasn't sure if they were made in red as I need red lenses for the tail lights. I must admit though I'm not looking forward to soldering the 0805 SMD's. The locos numbered at St Rollox did seem to have a different type set and I know some numbers were smaller and other, larger... eg 26 & 27's. The photo I have of the loco has a Bescot (BS) deport allocation sticker on and must have just been transferred to Eastfield in approx 1983 ish??? The numbers are definitely smaller than normal though so I just need to source these. Many thanks to everyone who has commented, I really appreciate everyones help here and it makes for a good resource for other RMWebbers!! Cheers Lee Hi Lee Most fibre optic is clear, but will show any colour - red/white/yellow etc - depends on the colour of the LED's used. The outer tip of the fibre optic light guides used for the tail lights, can also be coated with a red permanent marker, so they will look red with the lights off. Either a needle or 1mm iron tip is best for soldering SMD's. If you'd like any tips on making up the circuit lighting boards, let me know. I've attached a photo of a cab one I made up some time back for a 00 class 20 - but same principal applies, just scaled up in your case. Which tops number are you planning using ? Regards Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Martyn, Thank you for your reply. Does this act as a degreasing agent? It sounds like goods stuff... and useful for the bathroom when I've finished cleaning the model Many thanks to everyone who has commented, I really appreciate everyones help here and it makes for a good resource for other RMWebbers!! Cheers Lee Hi Lee, The brass/ nickel etch or resin always feel dry to the touch after using Vikal, obviously rinse well with warm water afterwards and the smell of it is not to bad either. Cheers, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Lee Most fibre optic is clear, but will show any colour - red/white/yellow etc - depends on the colour of the LED's used. The outer tip of the fibre optic light guides used for the tail lights, can also be coated with a red permanent marker, so they will look red with the lights off. Either a needle or 1mm iron tip is best for soldering SMD's. If you'd like any tips on making up the circuit lighting boards, let me know. I've attached a photo of a cab one I made up some time back for a 00 class 20 - but same principal applies, just scaled up in your case. Which tops number are you planning using ? Regards Ken Thank you very much for the offer of your help Ken. Making a lighting 'board' might be a good way forward as I was thinking of just sticking the SMD's onto the cab surface.... which is probably not the best idea I have had. I may make a template out of card to see how it will pan out. I am going to number the loco as 20045, based at Eastfield circa 1983 ish. Oh, btw... 37260 great Inverness loco Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Lee, https://flic.kr/p/deVvoo Are you going to make the snowplough? Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thank you very much for the offer of your help Ken. Making a lighting 'board' might be a good way forward as I was thinking of just sticking the SMD's onto the cab surface.... which is probably not the best idea I have had. I may make a template out of card to see how it will pan out. I am going to number the loco as 20045, based at Eastfield circa 1983 ish. Oh, btw... 37260 great Inverness loco Cheers Lee Having another look at your 20 photos, due to the large mounting posts on the inside faces of the cab and nose end mouldings, a once piece board obviously won't fit ! so either 2 boards each end with wire links, or as you suggested perhaps gluing the SMD's directly to the inside behind fibre optic guides. It's assumed the centre 2 discs on each end are to be non-working ? due to the mounting posts. Going by this photo the tops numbers look like standard sized 6" https://www.flickr.com/photos/16819691@N08/7388361738/in/photolist-cfThxd-oofshX-9mvnSF-auzfgu-e95iMq-bAZ8cX-9tFbNK-9Dznwm-deVvoo-msbY27-bjY9Tq-mJsz3n-fu34tv-aCj9Pm-tdovAm-6aajB2-9jMug4-dyzFid-v8Uh9B-nMTCpX-ni4gbi-65M1V4-efD8CR-eeMWQk-BUPbWi-fAxWjX-uXjctq-dsHwKU-6HtseP-efUvNP-bqB1bi-dubLoD-8dDr8t-h8y2fK-ayBAVG-qNhD83-tAVWbe-fj6gAs-eAYCDw-9Jtkim-fj3zSu-fiNrma-fiWsEp-BaC7MF-6qDdnr-nXPYct-zZNP4n-9Jtkeb-up8ZLU-dL4on7 A slightly later photo shows the larger/heavier 8"? type of tops numbers used on some locos by St Rollox works - 20/26/27's https://www.flickr.com/photos/84777395@N08/8195243553/in/photolist-dubLoD-8dDr8t-h8y2fK-ayBAVG-qNhD83-tAVWbe-fj6gAs-eAYCDw-9Jtkim-fj3zSu-fiNrma-fiWsEp-BaC7MF-6qDdnr-nXPYct-zZNP4n-9Jtkeb-up8ZLU-dL4on7-efZRRW-CamaAB-nABVPk-e5fRpS-h8x18h-w2Yt4-nT6N9e-6r4ffd-9LetZi-jK9Ji-9Jqwe2-e8jXc-6qZ4Mz-9JqvWc-6uXeiA-n2vhDJ-5T44j4-bobhXo-4GwSwh-4EA4DG-4EA44U-4EA3u7-4EA2Zy-4EvLq4-4EvKWH-4EvKuv-4EA17S-4EzZGm-4EzZc5-4EvHy4-4EwWeW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Hi Lee, https://flic.kr/p/deVvoo Are you going to make the snowplough? Regards Vin Hi Vin, That is one of the pics I have that I have been looking at for detailing. I won't be making the snow plough though Having another look at your 20 photos, due to the large mounting posts on the inside faces of the cab and nose end mouldings, a once piece board obviously won't fit ! so either 2 boards each end with wire links, or as you suggested perhaps gluing the SMD's directly to the inside behind fibre optic guides. It's assumed the centre 2 discs on each end are to be non-working ? due to the mounting posts. Going by this photo the tops numbers look like standard sized 6" https://www.flickr.com/photos/16819691@N08/7388361738/in/photolist-cfThxd-oofshX-9mvnSF-auzfgu-e95iMq-bAZ8cX-9tFbNK-9Dznwm-deVvoo-msbY27-bjY9Tq-mJsz3n-fu34tv-aCj9Pm-tdovAm-6aajB2-9jMug4-dyzFid-v8Uh9B-nMTCpX-ni4gbi-65M1V4-efD8CR-eeMWQk-BUPbWi-fAxWjX-uXjctq-dsHwKU-6HtseP-efUvNP-bqB1bi-dubLoD-8dDr8t-h8y2fK-ayBAVG-qNhD83-tAVWbe-fj6gAs-eAYCDw-9Jtkim-fj3zSu-fiNrma-fiWsEp-BaC7MF-6qDdnr-nXPYct-zZNP4n-9Jtkeb-up8ZLU-dL4on7 A slightly later photo shows the larger/heavier 8"? type of tops numbers used on some locos by St Rollox works - 20/26/27's https://www.flickr.com/photos/84777395@N08/8195243553/in/photolist-dubLoD-8dDr8t-h8y2fK-ayBAVG-qNhD83-tAVWbe-fj6gAs-eAYCDw-9Jtkim-fj3zSu-fiNrma-fiWsEp-BaC7MF-6qDdnr-nXPYct-zZNP4n-9Jtkeb-up8ZLU-dL4on7-efZRRW-CamaAB-nABVPk-e5fRpS-h8x18h-w2Yt4-nT6N9e-6r4ffd-9LetZi-jK9Ji-9Jqwe2-e8jXc-6qZ4Mz-9JqvWc-6uXeiA-n2vhDJ-5T44j4-bobhXo-4GwSwh-4EA4DG-4EA44U-4EA3u7-4EA2Zy-4EvLq4-4EvKWH-4EvKuv-4EA17S-4EzZGm-4EzZc5-4EvHy4-4EwWeW Hi Ken, Thank you once again for your input and help. I've been trying with a one piece board that is shaped to accommodate the fixing/ mounting pillars however,at the moment I haven't got very far with it. You are correct in assuming the centre two headcode lights are to be non-working, it would make a real mess inside the cab I think. I see what you mean about the number sizes now. At least I now know that I need standard numbers. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Well Laurie at JLTRT has sent me: 4 x buffer oleo housings 4 x buffers 4 x springs 4 x locking nuts Plus he has sent me loads of nickle silver wire to complete the nose handrails How's that for service!!!! Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 That's what you pay for, a very good service, and that's why we keep going back to them for goodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm hoping to get the bogies and under frame sprayed next week so in I figured it was a good idea to check the running of the loco before I went any further. To check this I figured it was about time I wired the bogies up and added the Delrin chain. I have to admit it has taken a good while to get the no 2 end bogie wired and soldered having spent ages figuring out ow to add wires to those pesky plunger pickups without impeding them. It seems the wire that is soldered onto the plunger pickups can very easily stop the springs retracting the plunger onto the back of the wheel, or conversely force it onto the wheel... I'm not sure which is worse. I must confess I'm not a big fan of these and I think in future I may get some thin phosphor bronze strips and make wipers to sit on the rear of the wheels. So after a bit of faffing about I managed to get the No 2 end bogie done: I have tested the electrical continuity with the wheels placed on pieces of brass, checking between rail and the two motor feeds that you can see here: All is good with complete isolation between opposing wheel sets of the bogie, so fingers crossed all will be ok when it comes to running. As you can see I have had to bring the power up out of the bogie by drilling a small hole for each wire as I couldn't think of another way to do this. I am hoping to put some small 2 pin connectors (marked for polarity) on these wires so that it will be possible to make the loco DCC with sound at some point in the near future. So I just have to make a start on the second bogie now and then attach to the frame to give the loco a short run to see how it fares. I'm thinking that I may need to add a washer or two in between the bogie and frame as the clearance does seem rather slight. Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 That wire looks very thick for it's use? I'd be looking at thinner if it were me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 That wire looks very thick for it's use? I'd be looking at thinner if it were me. Hi JeffP, Yes, I have thought about that.... but I'm not sure what the current draw is on O gauge locos. The wire is not very thick to be honest and is the thinnest I have at the moment. I may have a look around to see what else I can get that is more flexible. I have just noticed that the wire I have is 16/0.2, so I shall get some 7/0.2 as it's current rated at 1.4Amp max (I have to admit I wasn't happy with what I'd achieved today so I shall take it out and do it again). I have also just spotted a huge mistake........ I have left the gear out that should fit on the axle to drive them... Oooops. I don't think the loco will go very far at all without that. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2016 I have also just spotted a huge mistake........ I have left the gear out that should fit on the axle to drive them... Oooops. I don't think the loco will go very far at all without that. Cheers Lee Yes but a very quiet runner And I reckon you could get away with much thinner wire, when I have measured my Loco's running and stall amps with similar motor g/box it is hard to get them to read over 1 amp at heaviest load, and as that's only for very small time frames a 1 amp rated wire would be fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jcarta Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lee You are using Slaters gearbox to power your loco ......are these a direct fit without cutting up the top of the bogie as I am thinking about these on the 37.... Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lee You are using Slaters gearbox to power your loco ......are these a direct fit without cutting up the top of the bogie as I am thinking about these on the 37.... Jim Hi Jim, Yes I am using the Slater gearboxes for the 20. You still have to cut into the top of the bogie frame but that is not a big deal really. I know it seems a little daunting at first but if you measure the required cut out properly you can make for a really snug fit. Go cautiously and take your time and you will be ok...... measure twice cut once (then do lots of filing) HTH Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Having obtained some 7/ 0.2mm wire today I've managed to get both of the bogies wired and fitted together, with the inclusion of the gear that interfaces between gearbox and axle plus the Delrin chain It took a while to get both of them done but not as long as using the over-sized wire. The pickups seem much more free too and having tested continuity, all seems ok. Then mounting onto the frame: You can see that I have terminated both positive and negative cables from the pick ups using some small connectors. I found these at Eileens Emporium and I think they are normally used for PCB connections. However, I have also bought some from Rapid Online and these were less than a quarter of the price... only talking pence here but hey... looks after the pennies...... I have marked them so I don't mix the polarity up: I have now got to work out the best way of connecting the motors, firstly so they don't pull in the opposite direction (as I did on the class 40) but also so that the wire connections can be made DCC and a decoder easily fitted at some point. A bit of head scratching now but I'm sure I'll work it out. Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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