RMweb Gold jcarta Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lee Thanks for the advice regarding motors Now those bogies look nice albeit there's doesn't look like a lot of room in there.... even fitted the gear I see Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lee Thanks for the advice regarding motors Now those bogies look nice albeit there's doesn't look like a lot of room in there.... even fitted the gear I see Jim Hi Jim, You are welcome. I'm not really the best person to ask about the gearboxes that you are fitting as I have not had much success with those before. The real guru is Brian Daniels and he uses the Romford/ Markits gearboxes most of the time and has, it seems, 100% success with them. Having had no success with those gearboxes before I have been doing a little reading up on them as they are certainly a more economically viable option when compared to the Slaters gearboxes. That said I am very happy with the Slater gearboxes. See this link below which is written by Jim McGeown of Connoisseur Models: Connoisseur Models On Line Catalogue Print Off Motor & Gears Instructions, Hints & Tips Sheet In the document Jim explains how to make and fit the fold up type of gearboxes that you are attempting and it would seem, although not rocket science, it does need a bit of expertise and know how to get them to fit and ultimately to get the gears to mesh properly. If I had read this before I may have stuck with the Roxey/ Markits gearboxes and made them work rather than just churn up the gearing and making shredded metal. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Grumpy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Glad to see you have replaced the wiring....I thought you were wiring your bogies up to the national grid ! :-) They look so much better now, and I can see why your pickups are working properly now. I have enjoyed sharing the experience of your models progress, also your modelling skills are progressing too. It's all down to the experience of actually 'having a go'. It can be daunting cos these kits aren't cheap! My 47 was a massive leap of faith for me! I think posting the build really helps, as you want to up your game, but also can gain the knowledge from some very helpful individuals, who, like us, had to work at finding the techniques that suit them! Keep it up, your loco is looking very nice! Are you fitting a sound decoder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Glad to see you have replaced the wiring....I thought you were wiring your bogies up to the national grid ! :-) They look so much better now, and I can see why your pickups are working properly now. I have enjoyed sharing the experience of your models progress, also your modelling skills are progressing too. It's all down to the experience of actually 'having a go'. It can be daunting cos these kits aren't cheap! My 47 was a massive leap of faith for me! I think posting the build really helps, as you want to up your game, but also can gain the knowledge from some very helpful individuals, who, like us, had to work at finding the techniques that suit them! Keep it up, your loco is looking very nice! Are you fitting a sound decoder? Hi Grumps!! Nice to see you popping into the thread. Yes, the wiring was a little OTT.... I think it must be an OCD I have, not wanting melted wires/ cables The cable I used was 16/ 0.2 before and it was waaaaaay too big for the job. I hope that others get something out of this thread too, namely what not to do so they don't make the mistakes I am making. It is nice to have experienced modelers popping by and giving their advice and guidance as that helps enormously and as you say, it makes me a better modeler eventually. The kits aren't cheap but I think you get what you pay for and I cannot complain about either the product or the service I have had from JLTRT at all... first class all round I'm looking forward to seeing your 47 finished... I've never been a big fan of Duffs (they always showed up on trains when it should have been a 40!!) but your model is just superb and it will be excellent when complete. I still look on in admiration though of anyone that can build those brass kits. Outstanding!!! Eventually the 20 will be DCC fitted with sound but that is for another day really as I'm just enjoying building the kits. I'm looking forward to starting the 40 I purchased too which I think I will find easier because of what I have learnt here and also seen other builds too. Eventually I will have a go at building track and perhaps a small depot... but that's for another day Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Grumpy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 ........The DJH 47 is probably around 90% pewter! Just waiting (VERY) patiently for David Parkins (MMP) to bring out his 33/1 Will be worth the wait though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Pewter... that's got to be even more difficult to use!!! Well today I just managed to check the motor polarity and running of each bogie. Both run really well with no hiccups. I now have an idea of how to connect everything up giving me the flexibility that I need to make the loco DCC later on. Connecting the motors in series, positive to negative means they will run together and both have the same current. Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Won't that mean that each motor will only have half the available voltage across it, 9V if on DCC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi JeffP, Yes, that is correct. Is it wrong to wire motors in series? Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm not sufficiently "up" with DC to know, but if you have a 12V motor for example and only supply it 6V, it draws less current, so runs slow? Someone else could explain better, maybe DCC needs series wiring? Might be an idea to ask on the DCC section? Or start another thread on questions? There are experts on here, but they may not read this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi JeffP, Thank you for your help and guidance - I think I shall take a stab at the series wired motors as I would rather have both motors supplied with the same current. If it goes pear-shaped then I can re-wire it without any problems at all. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Its been a busy day today and started by doing battle with LED soldering. If it was normal sized LEDs I wouldn't have batted an eyelid at the task however, it was these: They are 0603 SMD's and not easy to solder. Funnily enough though the first few went really well, it was a little later where I ended up chasing the things about the table. Eventually I had managed to get 2 red, 2 warm white and a yellow soldered up. Here's one of the red SMD's as proof: The wire that I used is 30SWG so that will give you some idea of scale/ size. Following on from that success I wired and soldered up the bogies with connections such that it is really easy to change the wiring from DC to DCC later on: Testing the loco with a short section of track and a small controller I have I soon discovered how well the loco ran. Even over the short distance it would crawl very nicely indeed and I was impressed by the fact both bogies (without the frame connected) would run together and keep their spacing. This I'm hoping shows that they are well matched and receiving equal power. Ok, so with the success rate soaring I figured now was a good time to sort out the buffers. As you are aware JLTRT sent me a full set to replace the one I had asked for. With a 2.3mm drill bit I opened up the oleo barrels a tad, it took a bit of time as I did this with my Hand Twist Drill. I guess it took about an hour to get the result I have been after all along. Tadahhh!!! Four working buffers: The remainder of the day was spent stripping the bogies down for cleaning and then spraying. I'm not keen on this bit as it seems such a shame to have to dis-assemble everything after it has taken ages to get to the point where they are working. With the bogies split into their components they don't look much do they?: Oh.... and a bit more soldering this evening.... just to finished the day off by making the Shawplan Class 20 fan: Quite a productive day although it seems like bits'n'bobs. Tomorrow I need to make the roof grille and add that: Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Fun to build aren't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Hi Lee, She's looking great. Those 0603 SMD are pigs to solder. As you have usually only about 2 seconds before you damage the diode. If I have to solder wires to them, which is rare as my mate has a reflow machine for SMD's but if I do I get a couple of pieces of masking tape and stick it to the work bench with a sticky bit face up. I then stick one of the LEDs face down on the tape. This not only keeps it in place but if the tape starts to scorch it usually means the LED won't work as the heat has damaged it. I then test it on a piece of bread/prototyping board which has various resistors on it. Keep up the good work. Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Hi Lee, She's looking great. Those 0603 SMD are pigs to solder. As you have usually only about 2 seconds before you damage the diode. If I have to solder wires to them, which is rare as my mate has a reflow machine for SMD's but if I do I get a couple of pieces of masking tape and stick it to the work bench with a sticky bit face up. I then stick one of the LEDs face down on the tape. This not only keeps it in place but if the tape starts to scorch it usually means the LED won't work as the heat has damaged it. I then test it on a piece of bread/prototyping board which has various resistors on it. Keep up the good work. Regards Vin Hi Vin, This is exactly what I have been doing, but thank you for your suggestion. I think the reason I started chasing components about the table surface is that the masking tape started to lose its tack. One point of note though, I appreciate these SMDs are quite delicate but I have to admit the ones I've been soldering have struck me as being quite resilient.... oh and there were lots of scorch marks too One such SMD yesterday took about 6 or 7 attempts to get the solder to take..... and afterwards it tested fine on my breadboard (much to my amazement). Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Fun to build aren't they? Hi Pete, They certainly are and immensely enjoyable too I was looking at class 20 photos yesterday and noticed that I have no windscreen wipers for the small cab windows as seen on 20087: Have you ever done any etches for things like this?? Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2016 To solder those SMDs you could also get a set of self hold metal tweezers, they will not only hold the SMD while soldering but be useful as a heatsink should you spend a little too much time frying the ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2016 Like these........ https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5472&category_id=137&keyword=tweezers&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Like these........ https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5472&category_id=137&keyword=tweezers&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 Ahhhh... I have those already. Next time I solder these pesky things I shall use those Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2016 Good news then, I usually fix the handle end in my small vice or bench vice to help hold them still while soldering, worse thing is chasing some tiny part around the bench with a hot soldering iron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 That's why my 20's are illuminated with bulbs, I like the colour of the light as well, well it is a bulb representing a, well a bulb. Afraid you have to make your own windy wipers for those windows. I used 2 bits of .5 wire soldered together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm not a big fan of whitemetal for buffers, I prefer turned brass, but those do look quite good. I wish the lost wax MMP ones were still available. And the bogies don't look much? Who are you trying to kid, here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 A productive day and a step closer to getting the loco finished. Not many pictures to show though as most components are tucked away in a dust free area drying after being sprayed with etch primer. Sadly I made up too much etch primer and I fear it will not keep... I have now run out of primer and will have to resort to Halfords I guess which means I need a good weather day to spray..... this is where the project comes to a grinding halt until summer Additionally, the filter at the back of my spray extractor is totally clogged with the etch primer so I need to purchase another of those before I can spray indoors. I wanted to have the cab interiors complete by Saturday too. One item I made yesterday and added to the no 2 bogie was the AWS receiver: I used pictures to make it so I cannot claim it is exactly to scale but once fitted it does look quite close. You can't quite see from the photo but there is a small hole (0.5mm) drilled in the top that will take a small piece of wire to represent the signal cable. Following on from the spraying this morning I managed to get the Shawplan grille made. Not an easy task as it is quite fiddly but I got there in the end. The grill and support are soldered together but the top ring is super-glued on as I did not fancy my chances of all the previous soldering not coming undone or having solder run everywhere into the fine mesh: Anyway, it just needs blackening now as I think if I put it onto the loco it may clog with paint if I try to spray it as the mesh is so fine. oooo before I forget... JeffP the buffer oleos are nickle silver and not white metal. The job or opening them out would have been much easier had they been made of softer metal. Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Another couple of hours work completed today on the class 20.. some of it productive... some of it not so. Having discovered that I could clean my spray booth filter by simply knocking the surface paint off then giving it a good bashing to knock the dried particulates out of it, I decided I should try to spray the under frame, bogies and side frames whilst the weather was half decent. As always, I mixed up waaaay too much paint with thinners. I really need to learn how to gauge this better as it must cost me a fortune in paint that I throw away!! I mixed 50/50 thinners with Railmatch 205 - Black.... which I'm hoping is a satin finish!!! Having primed and prep'd the aforementioned several days ago the job was not half as bad. In about 2 hours of setting up and getting ready, then spraying I managed this lot: I decided it was a good chance to learn... or at least try to learn how to use my airbrush before I get onto the body and upper parts of the frame, basically areas that are visible I did overdo the spray paint in areas, but it doesn't matter as these areas can't be seen (only by me ) but I think I've just about got the hang of the basics. Something that does perplex me though is that I noticed how the paint was somewhat reluctant to adhere in corners of the underframe and bogies. Perhaps this is where I may not have caught this with sufficient etch primer. But the paint, although thin just did not take on the first pass instead it would 'sort of' run free from that particular area. However, in the end it has taken ok and just needed an element of patience As I was packing up for the day I noticed the roof grille sat among the components, so I figured while I was making a mess everywhere I should get that blackened too. To clean it I used some of the Cillit Bang (Green bottle - as recommended to me by OzzyO of this parish). I gave it a really good thorough cleaning and then dried it as best I could before applying blackening fluid: As you can see the blackening fluid did not take 100% and this has happened before so I think it may be the superglue or something. I shall wait for it to dry then give it a good clean and perhaps a burnish with a fibre-glass pen and have another go. Slowly I feel that the loco is coming together. However, having sprayed these items now I have realised that I need to smooth out and fill a couple of areas on the bogie sideframe equalising beams and also on the buffer beams themselves where I got a bit carried away drilling holes everywhere So a bit of work to do before I can add another coat of primer and paint to these items. Probably all the wrong order of doing things but hey... one learns Thanks for looking in Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2016 keep going lee, you're getting there! a point to remember though - in the real world, nothing had such a perfect finish as a model in a close-up photo. I know it may annoy you, but once painted and finished it'll probably look just fine (especially the bits only you can see!) unless something is such a total feck-up that you can't hide it, chances are it'll give that bit of 'naturalness' that'll make it look all the more 'real' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Hi Lee Your 20 is taking shape nicely. I've been tempted to go O gauge for some time so have been following a few threads to try and decide what to start with. For soldering smd leds a scrap piece of softwood drill a shallow hole smaller than the face of the led and push the led into it this will hold the led while attaching wires. For tank gauge transfers and possibly a complete set to suit the loco Try Rail-Tec Transfers - Steve is very helpful. HTH Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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