Kernow Adams O2

[mevaman]

As far as I know, the cab surrounds are painted silver!

 

I cannot comment on the coupling rod screws. Perhaps Muz can confirm?

 

As an ex Kernow employee, I am biased but, for what it's worth, think this little model is superb in every way!! One is going to find its way on my 1990s model of Par.

 

Andrew

[Graham_Muz]

Just wondering why is the edge of the cab aperture white? I have never seen a photograph of a white surround on an 02, and why the black coupling rod screws? It does look a bit toy like. Especially when compared with the Bachmann 64XX at £ 30 less

 

David

 

As per Matt's post above the loco has been produced in ex works condition which includes the steel edging to the cab opening and has therefore been picked out in in silver (as have the handrails) not white,  the steel bands on the pull push Westinghouse pump are also so treated (although these often tarnished to a yellow colour due to hot oil stains to look almost brass like but they were indeed steel.

 

My number 225 will be weathered in due course.

 

The coupling rod screws are indeed black and again mine will soon be weathered. Comparing with the price of a Bachmann model is not comparing apples with apples as this is s retail shop commission and therefore costs and pricing complexities are not the same.

 

The model ran impeccably on my ex LSWR 46' ex Emigrant Pull Push set all day yesterday at the Worthing MRC exhibition and certainly looked the part.  It can next be seen at the Hornby Magazine Great Electric Train show on the 10/11th October where Fisherton Sarum will be present.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Graham_Muz

[Ian Hargrave]

Just wondering why is the edge of the cab aperture white? I have never seen a photograph of a white surround on an 02, and why the black coupling rod screws? It does look a bit toy like. Especially when compared with the Bachmann 64XX at £ 30 less

 

I must confess that I am somewhat mystified by your direct comparison with an entirely different model which is of a conventional production run.The O2 is specially commissioned by Kernow with another manufacturer...in this case DJM.....with an entirely different specification. Are you implying that the 64XX is "better value" ? I assume you have seen the model in the flesh,as it were,because it is unsafe to rely on images seen on line.This is a much heralded model of a favourite little loco which has been welcomed enthusiastically by many knowledgeable members of this forum. Please don't rush to judgement just yet.

[Oldddudders]

You either want an O2 or you don't. Even if the Kernow product were inferior - which it patently ain't - it would still be the only RTR 4mm O2 in my lifetime. Price is therefore of limited relevance, especially since an 0-4-4 takes a great deal more developing than an 0-6-0.

 

Since my SR layout depicts an area which didn't regularly see this class, I have no real need - but the models look delish, so I'm sure one will get here in due course.

[DCB]

I was at Kernow last Tuesday afternoon, The black coupling rod screw also appears on the Beattie Well Tank, Can it be changed for something more realistic? Is it a standard hex set screw with a standard thread?  Is it chemically blackened? can it be filed to look more like steel?

The shiny cab aperture surround appears to be something added to "Calbourne" in preservation days, From photos it looks like stainless steel. I still have not found any pictures of any other 02 with a shiny, or rusty, cab surround.  Generally Handrails were painted ex works and polished up with continued use in service.  

Edited September 28, 2015 by DavidCBroad

[The Stationmaster]

So an engine is running round with polished steel surround on the cab sidesheet and polished steel handrails.  No doubt in traffic such features did the same on O2s as on many other engines and either weren't painted (a common situation on many Western engines for example) or weren't polished up (a common situation on probably the vast majority of engines in later years).  But in some cases crews tried to look after engines and handrails, in particular were kept clean and therefore looked like clean steel, others looked like grubby steel, and the majority looked like handrails in everyday use.

 

Cleaning arose from both the action of crews and the simple effect of leaning on or holding such surfaces.  The preserved O2 might, or might not, be unique - we simply do not know - and if you happen to buy one and don't like the polished steel effect there is a very simple answer - weather it to the colour of well used steelwork on an everyday working engine.  That of course either means that one was familiar with everyday working engines, be they well looked after or not so well looked after, or using photographs and perhaps even some imagination.  Incidentally I have in my collection a picture of (W) 28 Ashey recently ex-works in green livery, lettered 'British Railways' and it is pretty clear from that picture that the cab handrails are not painted; and why would anyone bother to paint them, the paint would soon wear off? 

 

All that is being talked about is a little bit of tiddly steel work and it's simple to deal with for those who don't like it.  And of course the same goes for the colour of the crank pins - a dab of paint and all is resolved.  Mind you we could perhaps say of any r-t-r steam outline engine that the rods and valve gear are the 'wrong' colour for everyday working condition so that sort of criticism can be extended to a lot of model which cost ten or twenty times more than the Kernow O2 or even the latest museum commissions with prices between £150 and £200. 

[tetsudofan]

I was at Kernow last Tuesday afternoon, The black coupling rod screw also appears on the Beattie Well Tank, Can it be changed for something more realistic? Is it a standard hex set screw with a standard thread?  Is it chemically blackened? can it be filed to look more like steel?

The shiny cab aperture surround appears to be something added to "Calbourne" in preservation days, From photos it looks like stainless steel. I still have not found any pictures of any other 02 with a shiny, or rusty, cab surround.  Generally Handrails were painted ex works and polished up with continued use in service.  

 

If you were at Kernow last Tuesday I'm surprised that you did not ask the questions posed above when you visited the shop. Would have thought that they would have been able to answer your questions especially as they commissioned the model.

 

Keith

[IWCR]

I  have  looked  through  many  Isle  of  Wight  O2  photos  including  some  in  colour.

The  steel  cab  surround  is  polished  in many  of  these  as are  handrails.

In  SR  days  it  appears  on  most  photos  and  often  the  edging  strip  along  the  tank  top  is  also  polished  steel.

During  later  BR  days  it is  less  obvious  but  shows  up  on  many  photos  of  very  clean  engines  however  on  some  locos  it    has  been  painted  black.   On  a  dirty  loco  it  is  very  difficult   to  make  out,  more  so  in  Black  &  White  photos.

For  many  years  Island  O2s  were  alocated  to  regular  crews  who  took  a  pride  in  keeping  their  loco  clean.

 

Looking  at  a  colour  photo  of  35  &  36  ex  works  at  Southampton  docks  awaiting delivery  (1949)  these  certainly  have  the  cab  surround  painted  black,  the  brass  beading  on  the  splasher  painted  over  in  black,  cab  handrails  clean  steel,  other handrails  black.

This  is  probably  the  "official"  livery  having  just  been  overhauled at  Eastleigh.

In  service  the  crews  would  clean / polish  bits  as  they  saw  fit,  many  O2s  including  mainland  ones  had  the splasher  beading  polished.

In  addition  Ryde  repaints  have  often  not  followed  the  rules

A  1964  photo  of  35  shows  polished  bright  steel  cab  surround,  cab  and  tank  handrails.  (still  painted  over  spasher  beading)

 

 

As  always  check  photos  for  the  time  and  place  relevant  for  your  specific  model  &  period.

 

"Calbourne"  certainly  had  a  polished  steel  cab  surround  when  in  service,  One  of  her  regular  BR  drivers  was  for  many  years  a  driver  at  Havenstreet  and  he  should  know.  

On  many  period  photos  it  is  not  clear  and  I  suspect  there  were  periods  when  it  was  painted   

 

The  cab  surround  is  plain  steel  and  if  not  cleaned  rusts,  the fine  rust  gets  dirty  or  is  wiped  over  with  oil  giving  it  a dark  appearance  very  quickly.  "Calbourne"s   is  kept  bright  and  at  the  end  of  a  working  day  is  wiped  over  with  oil  if  rain / damp  is  expected  overnight.  If  this  is  not  done  it  makes  for  a  lot  of  work  cleaning  it  up  again.

 

Pete

[mevaman]

Dear all

 

The key point is that the cab surrounds on the model ARE silver.

 

David was incorrect in his assertion (sorry - nothing personal).

 

Andrew

[coachmann]

It seems BR painted everything black including cab handrails. The silver cab surround looks to me like preservation bullsh*t, so I presume that is what the manufacturer has replicated. I found no evidence of polished surrounds in LSWR days during Drummonds time (I haven't got the Adam book), nor in SR days and definitely not in BR days. A modeller could easily attend to the matter on the 02  if he wants it black. I dont suppose it matters one jot to collectors. Realistically, that surround would take some keeping 'clean' in everyday service. It would be affected by rain, damp, an engineman's damp sleeve, hosing the footplate etc etc and it would be regarded by enginemen as a darned pest if light rust got onto their clothing and skin every time they leaned over the side. Paint wore off the bottom ledge anyway over time and that would be nuisance enough. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by coachmann

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I have a book covering the O2's and they are quite noticeable in the LSWR days, through SR, although this was only covering the Island's locos and the developments through time, although that doesn't speak for the mainland they were certainly polished on the photos in the book I have, from 1923  to the 60's, so certainly not just a preservation thing but they were duller toward the end, or maybe they just looked after them better here.

[Mike Storey]

I  have  looked  through  many  Isle  of  Wight  O2  photos  including  some  in  colour.

The  steel  cab  surround  is  polished  in many  of  these  as are  handrails.

In  SR  days  it  appears  on  most  photos  and  often  the  edging  strip  along  the  tank  top  is  also  polished  steel.

During  later  BR  days  it is  less  obvious  but  shows  up  on  many  photos  of  very  clean  engines  however  on  some  locos  it    has  been  painted  black.   On  a  dirty  loco  it  is  very  difficult   to  make  out,  more  so  in  Black  &  White  photos.

For  many  years  Island  O2s  were  alocated  to  regular  crews  who  took  a  pride  in  keeping  their  loco  clean.

 

Looking  at  a  colour  photo  of  35  &  36  ex  works  at  Southampton  docks  awaiting delivery  (1949)  these  certainly  have  the  cab  surround  painted  black,  the  brass  beading  on  the  splasher  painted  over  in  black,  cab  handrails  clean  steel,  other handrails  black.

This  is  probably  the  "official"  livery  having  just  been  overhauled at  Eastleigh.

In  service  the  crews  would  clean / polish  bits  as  they  saw  fit,  many  O2s  including  mainland  ones  had  the splasher  beading  polished.

In  addition  Ryde  repaints  have  often  not  followed  the  rules

A  1964  photo  of  35  shows  polished  bright  steel  cab  surround,  cab  and  tank  handrails.  (still  painted  over  spasher  beading)

 

 

As  always  check  photos  for  the  time  and  place  relevant  for  your  specific  model  &  period.

 

"Calbourne"  certainly  had  a  polished  steel  cab  surround  when  in  service,  One  of  her  regular  BR  drivers  was  for  many  years  a  driver  at  Havenstreet  and  he  should  know.  

On  many  period  photos  it  is  not  clear  and  I  suspect  there  were  periods  when  it  was  painted   

 

The  cab  surround  is  plain  steel  and  if  not  cleaned  rusts,  the fine  rust  gets  dirty  or  is  wiped  over  with  oil  giving  it  a dark  appearance  very  quickly.  "Calbourne"s   is  kept  bright  and  at  the  end  of  a  working  day  is  wiped  over  with  oil  if  rain / damp  is  expected  overnight.  If  this  is  not  done  it  makes  for  a  lot  of  work  cleaning  it  up  again.

 

Pete

 

Absolutely right about the IOW locos. That was where the footplate crews rested their fish and chips and there is no way they would have allowed that area to become insanitary.

[Mike Storey]

- it would still be the only RTR 4mm O2 in my lifetime. 

 

which is quite a long time.

[john flann]

Simple question, what length is an O2 over buffers?

[PhilH]

30' 8 1/2" (12" / ft)

Edited September 28, 2015 by PhilH

[coachmann]

30' 8 1/2" (12" / ft)

Holy shmoly....I drove 30ft double deckers and it is amazing to think those little 02's were that long let alone 8½ inches longer....

Edited September 28, 2015 by coachmann

[JZ]

Still in two minds about getting one, memories of the Withered Arm and the Isle of Wight gave me a liking for these engines, but justifying it on the S&D? 

 

As for comparing it to the 64XX, let's be honest, if the area you're modelling calls for an O2, you won't want a pannier tank.

[coachmann]

Still in two minds about getting one, memories of the Withered Arm and the Isle of Wight gave me a liking for these engines, but justifying it on the S&D? 

 

As for comparing it to the 64XX, let's be honest, if the area you're modelling calls for an O2, you won't want a pannier tank.

Except at Bodmin....

 

Surprising lack of photos being uploaded.

Edited September 29, 2015 by coachmann

[Dunsignalling]

Still in two minds about getting one, memories of the Withered Arm and the Isle of Wight gave me a liking for these engines, but justifying it on the S&D? 

 

As for comparing it to the 64XX, let's be honest, if the area you're modelling calls for an O2, you won't want a pannier tank.

 

I actually do want both but I already have a Bachmann 64xx and don't need more than one, so it's not really a valid comparison for me, either.

 

I'd be very surprised if O2s (or any other SR tanks) ever worked over the S&D, unless there was no alternative. I understand that the spacing of watering facilities on the main line meant that tank locos were restricted to local work (for which you need Midland 0-4-4Ts or, later, Ivatt 2MTs). After inter-regional services were redirected off the S&D, loads and schedules were "managed down" to a level where the water capacity of the efficient Riddles 4MTs allowed their use.

 

There's a nice fresh tin of Humbrol Satin Black waiting to cover up the rather garish preservation-era decorative features when my O2s arrive!.

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

I have a book covering the O2's and they are quite noticeable in the LSWR days, through SR, although this was only covering the Island's locos and the developments through time, although that doesn't speak for the mainland they were certainly polished on the photos in the book I have, from 1923  to the 60's, so certainly not just a preservation thing but they were duller toward the end, or maybe they just looked after them better here.

There are plenty of photos on the 'net showing that O2s didn't have painted cab handrails and that some had the steel rim around the cab side opening buffed up.  Even a quick Google reveals loads of evidence - including colour photos of engines in traffic on the Isle of Wight.

[Peter Bedding]

I actually do want both but I already have a Bachmann 64xx and don't need more than one, so it's not really a valid comparison for me, either.

 

I'd be very surprised if O2s (or any other SR tanks) ever worked over the S&D, unless there was no alternative. I understand that the spacing of watering facilities on the main line meant that tank locos were restricted to local work (for which you need Midland 0-4-4Ts or, later, Ivatt 2MTs). After inter-regional services were redirected off the S&D, loads and schedules were "managed down" to a level where the water capacity of the efficient Riddles 4MTs allowed their use.

 

There's a nice fresh tin of Humbrol Satin Black waiting to cover up the rather garish preservation-era decorative features when my O2s arrive!.

 

John

 

Hello John,

 

I may have a short-lived advantage, the postie delivered my K2105 earlier this morning, and amongst other issues, i can advise that the concerns over the replication of the bright steel have been over-stated to the point of irrelevance. I remember other critics jumping on the chimney taper bandwagon pending deliveries of the BWT. As soon as the model had been distributed the critics turned on their "silent button" and I hope the same will be repeated here. First reactions are the K2105 is a stunning little gem, and fully worthy of our expectations. Kernow have raised the bar in the past, and now there are contenders with other products, but this must be shortlisted for a Model of the Year award.

 

I hope to post an ensemble photo before the day is out.

 

PB

Edited September 29, 2015 by Peter Bedding

[Oldddudders]

Mike Storey, on 28 Sept 2015 - 22:10, said:

which is quite a long time.

Bloomin' cheek! Any more of that and you'll be back Early Turn at Cannon St!

[DCB]

I actually do want both but I already have a Bachmann 64xx and don't need more than one, so it's not really a valid comparison for me, either.

 

I'd be very surprised if O2s (or any other SR tanks) ever worked over the S&D, unless there was no alternative. I understand that the spacing of watering facilities on the main line meant that tank locos were restricted to local work (for which you need Midland 0-4-4Ts or, later, Ivatt 2MTs). After inter-regional services were redirected off the S&D, loads and schedules were "managed down" to a level where the water capacity of the efficient Riddles 4MTs allowed their use.

 

John

 

 

The Southern lent half a dozen Adams T1 /F6 0-4-4 Ts to the LMS for S/D work in WW2.  They were shedded at Highbridge and Templecombe so presumably worked on the "Branch" rather than the "Main Line"  The T1/ F6 (It seems the surviving F6s were referred to as T1 when the T1s were withdrawn) were 5' 7" driving wheel 36 foot long against 4' 10" 30 foot long 02  sort of a cross between an 02 and an M7.  The SR also lent a number of mainly Drummond 4-4-0s for S & D work at this time.

 

64XX and 02 must have frequently met at Plymouth as 64XX were allocated to Plymouth Laira for Plymouth Area Auto trains and 02 to Plymouth SR (Friary?)   I don't think 64XX got to Bodmin.  They definitely got into Cornwall to Saltash  and the Tavistock / Launceston line. Probably Liskeard. I have seen one picture of an 02 approaching Bodmin General from Boscarne Junction on passenger stock.  

[Graham_Muz]

The Southern lent half a dozen Adams T1 /F6 0-4-4 Ts to the LMS for S/D work in WW2.  They were shedded at Highbridge and Templecombe so presumably worked on the "Branch" rather than the "Main Line"  The T1/ F6 (It seems the surviving F6s were referred to as T1 when the T1s were withdrawn) were 5' 7" driving wheel 36 foot long against 4' 10" 30 foot long 02  sort of a cross between an 02 and an M7.  

 

Although hijacking this thread slightly this is what the O2's bigger brother the T1 looks like:

[mclong]

Although hijacking this thread slightly this is what the O2's bigger brother the T1 looks like:

T1 10_6.jpg

   I don't think a T1 ever looked quite like that , with a Drummond dome and safety valves and Adams ramsbottom safety valve on the firebox . One or the other but not both.