Dapol 'Western'

[rembrow]

I've had a response from Dapol and DCC supplies on the issue of who pays for the cost of repairing any faulty circuit boards on Class 52 early models. The response was to the effect that if the fault was linked to the faulty manufacturing issue, which they have identified in some circuits fitted to the first issue Class 52s, any repair or replacement part would be provided free of charge and not linked to the warranty period limits or requiring the service to extend the warranty into the second year. The advice is to contact DCC supplies by phone or internet to log the fault. The repair or replacement part will be provided on proof of purchase and   return of faulty model or part.

This clarifies the issue for me and indicates a longer term support for these early Class 22 and 52 models than we expected. For those who have the ability and are satisfied that the circuit board is at fault, it will be straightforward after logging the fault and agreeing the method of return, to send the faulty circuit board and proof of purchase to DCC Supplies and wait for a replacement. I have been offered a refund of the cost of the circuit board and p&p, which I've accepted with thanks. I think I'll still replace the early type circuit boards in my other Class 52 and 2 split box Class 22s, that is my choice and I'm content to pay for them  B) B)

Edited April 19, 2014 by rembrow

[brushman47544]

A word of caution/advice to those buying the latest batch of OO Westerns.

 

D1023 in Maroon has the Talisman clips so is only correct for the loco in preservation. And not suitable renaming, except as D1015 also in one of its preserved guises.

 

Of the two latest BR blue versions, both have the Talisman clips but D1021 Western Cavalier has the red spots on the cab sides below the data panel, whereas D1010 Western Campaigner doesn't have them.

[southernelectric]

A word of caution/advice to those buying the latest batch of OO Westerns.

 

D1023 in Maroon has the Talisman clips so is only correct for the loco in preservation. And not suitable renaming, except as D1015 also in one of its preserved guises.

 

Of the two latest BR blue versions, both have the Talisman clips but D1021 Western Cavalier has the red spots on the cab sides below the data panel, whereas D1010 Western Campaigner doesn't have them.

 

Thanks for the tip! So...what about D1072 Western Glory (Blue with FYE)? I was thinking of renaming to D1011 Western Thunderer, with my D1005 Western Venturer from the first run will most likely become D1002 Western Explorer.

 

I might just keep it as D1072 though, quite like the name.

 

Also, I recently acquired D1012 Western Firebrand (Maroon with FYE). Thinking of renaming this as well....but not sure what to....or is renaming that a no-go? I was thinking of Western Thunderer if I keep Glory as is.

 

Talisman clips....can you please explain what they are and where they are on the loco? Sorry if it's been explained somewhere else already in this 127 page thread! 

[southernelectric]

One other question about these models...

 

The black surround on the headcode box, present on the Western Venturer model from the first run that Dapol did last year, is not present on Western Glory from the second run of earlier this year.

 

On pictures of the prototype I've looked at online, I cannot see any examples with a black headcode box surround. Which begs the question, why did Dapol do this if it's not prototypical? 

[Southernman46]

Talisman clips....can you please explain what they are and where they are on the loco? Sorry if it's been explained somewhere else already in this 127 page thread!

A modification to the battery boxes cover retention clips following the Ealing Broadway derailment in 1974 ?? in which D1007 was damaged beyond repair - if you google it, a copy of the accident report can be found on the net

Edited June 28, 2014 by Southernman46

[southernelectric]

A modification to the battery boxes cover retention clips following the Ealing Broadway derailment in 1974 ?? in which D1007 was damaged beyond repair - if you google it, a copy of the accident report can be found on the net

 

Thanks Southernman! I found the accident report online and looking at pictures of the various Dapol models I can now see the difference between clips and non-clips versions.

[buffalo]

...So...what about D1072 Western Glory (Blue with FYE)?...

If you haven't read the whole topic then you may not have come across Rugd1022's excellent western liveries topics which are pinned at the top of the Diesel Hydraulic Group. All the livery answers are to be found there.

 

Nick

[Downendian]

Thanks for the tip! So...what about D1072 Western Glory (Blue with FYE)? I was thinking of renaming to D1011 Western Thunderer, with my D1005 Western Venturer from the first run will most likely become D1002 Western Explorer.

 

I might just keep it as D1072 though, quite like the name.

 

Also, I recently acquired D1012 Western Firebrand (Maroon with FYE). Thinking of renaming this as well....but not sure what to....or is renaming that a no-go? I was thinking of Western Thunderer if I keep Glory as is.

 

Talisman clips....can you please explain what they are and where they are on the loco? Sorry if it's been explained somewhere else already in this 127 page thread!

 

The Talisman clips are the small hinges of metal that keep the battery box doors from opening. They were large painted yellow strips of steel, applied after the West Ealing disaster of December 1973, and were fitted after it was discovered that the battery box doors swinging open caused this tragic derailment.

 

Thus , you need to have "non-Talisman clips " ( as per the Dapol D1072 model) Westerns if you are modelling pre-1974. Indeed, the first Westerns to go in 1973 and early 1974 never had the yellow Talisman clips fitted. All Westerns of course by 1973 were blue, thus any earlier liveries having the new design clips can only be in preservation. My D1072 changed identity and became D1032, the first Westerns to be withdrawn, but languished at Swindon until late 1974.

 

Neil

[southernelectric]

If you haven't read the whole topic then you may not have come across Rugd1022's excellent western liveries topics which are pinned at the top of the Diesel Hydraulic Group. All the livery answers are to be found there.

 

Nick

 

Thanks, I took a look. Interesting that D1002 Western Explorer's withdrawal is stated on that thread as 29-01-74, Wikipedia shows October 1976::

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Rail_Class_52_locomotives

 

If the 1974 date Rugd1022's thread is the correct one, then the Dapol blue D1005 Western Venturer will not work for renaming to D1002 Western Explorer as surely the Talisman clips would not have been fitted to D1002 before wihdrawal? In which case renaming the Dapol maroon D1012 Western Firebrand (which doesn't have the clips) to D1002 Western Explorer would work.

 

That being the case I'll probably rename the Dapol BR blue D1005 Western Venturer to D1011 Western Thunderer, the latter not being withdrawn until October 1975 - so I would image the Talisman clips would have been fitted to that loco? 

 

[Edited to reflect correct number for D1012 Western Firebrand - originally stated D1023]

Edited June 29, 2014 by southernelectric

[southernelectric]

A word of caution/advice to those buying the latest batch of OO Westerns.

 

D1023 in Maroon has the Talisman clips so is only correct for the loco in preservation. And not suitable renaming, except as D1015 also in one of its preserved guises.

 

Of the two latest BR blue versions, both have the Talisman clips but D1021 Western Cavalier has the red spots on the cab sides below the data panel, whereas D1010 Western Campaigner doesn't have them.

 

What's the significance (if any) of the red spots?

[TrevorP1]

What's the significance (if any) of the red spots?

 

Refers to the old GWR, BR(W) route availability code. Uncoloured was the lowest axle weight, through yellow, blue, red (most express passenger types) and double red for Kings.

[47137]

 

That being the case I'll probably rename the Dapol BR blue D1005 Western Venturer to D1011 Western Thunderer, the latter not being withdrawn until October 1975 - so I would image the Talisman clips would have been fitted to that loco? 

D1011 Thunderer was fitted with the Talisman clips. This loco also had headboard clips at both cab ends (like the Dapol moulding), unlike the real D1005. I felt the Dapol blue FYE model was closer to D1011, and wanting something slightly different I went for this and sold on the original plates on eBay.

 

- Richard.

[southernelectric]

D1011 Thunderer was fitted with the Talisman clips. This loco also had headboard clips at both cab ends (like the Dapol moulding), unlike the real D1005. I felt the Dapol blue FYE model was closer to D1011, and wanting something slightly different I went for this and sold on the original plates on eBay.

 

- Richard.

 

Great! Very useful to know. D1005 shall become D1011. And I'll sell the D1005 plates on eBay...

[47137]

A word of caution/advice to those buying the latest batch of OO Westerns.

 

D1023 in Maroon has the Talisman clips so is only correct for the loco in preservation. And not suitable renaming, except as D1015 also in one of its preserved guises.

 

Of the two latest BR blue versions, both have the Talisman clips but D1021 Western Cavalier has the red spots on the cab sides below the data panel, whereas D1010 Western Campaigner doesn't have them.

 

I have updated my spreadsheet of details for a blue Western with full yellow ends. The changes are in bold text in rows 5 and 13. This spreadsheet replaces revision d which I posted last summer.

 

- Richard.

 

Class 52 Western details e.xls

[dgilbert2]

Just got my first ever Dapol model, the OO Western and but unfortunately I am having problems in that it almost constantly derails over point work, even at slow speeds. It seems to be when the "front" bogie is leading that the problems occurs i.e. the first wheel set fails to negotiate the points.

 

I tried unclipping the front valance to ensure that nothing was interfering with the bogie movement but it made no difference. The bogie does appear free to rotate, having read similar derailing problems in this thread.

 

For reference I'm using standard Hornby track from 2013 and have almost 60 other locos, none of which have problems with my points. This Dapol model is having real problems though.

 

Have checked the wheels B2B and looks OK.

 

Can anyone suggest a fix for this problem?

Edited July 16, 2014 by dgilbert2

[Gwiwer]

Plenty of advice back through the thread but to save reading 100+ pages I'll summarise what fixed the same problem for me.

 

There is a very (very fine indeed) tolerance between the body-mounted and bogie-mounted elements of the suspension mouldings.  These can just come into contact sufficiently - or might have just enough moulding flash on them - that they are causing the derailment because they prevent the free swing required of the bogie.

 

A rub with wet and dry on both parts fixed it for me and on more than one loco.

 

There are other issues which might be in play.  

 

You have already had the valence off but if you are not going to use the front-end coupler I suggest cutting the socket right off as that removes any possible point of contact between it and the valence.

 

If cab steps are fitted they may need to be carefully moved; located exactly in their sockets they too can just could the bogie swing so some of mine are moved by around 0.5mm and a couple are slightly bent (pushed by finger pressure but they look as though there's been a realistic small knock to them at some point).

 

If speedo cables are fitted check they too are not fouling the bogie swing.  None of mine do but they come close and at the extreme of rotation the free end which normally sits close to the wheel is pushed slightly outwards and rests on the wheel briefly.

[owentherail]

There D1026 has headboard clips :-(

[dgilbert2]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Have tried all the suggestions including those I could find in this thread.

 

Sadly I've not got the problem resolved but found that the when the loco was put onto a flat surface, that the front wheelset (which are derailing), were not touching the surface. ie I could see daylight under them! I am therefore sure this is the problem!

 

In any case it does not look as though l can resolve this so the friendly store I purchased it from has agreed for me to return it for a refund.

 

So, nearly had a Dapol but based on this and also the fact that the cab lights are soooo bright, I've decided to stay away from Dapol for now.

 

Really disappointed

Edited July 16, 2014 by dgilbert2

[Ray M]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Have tried all the suggestions including those I could find in this thread.

 

Sadly I've not got the problem resolved but found that the when the loco was put onto a flat surface, that the front wheelset (which are derailing), were not touching the surface. ie I could see daylight under them! I am therefore sure this is the problem!

 

In any case it does not look as though l can resolve this so the friendly store I purchased it from has agreed for me to return it for a refund.

 

So, nearly had a Dapol but based on this and also the fact that the cab lights are soooo bright, I've decided to stay away from Dapol for now.

 

Really disappointed

Ditto.

[Gwiwer]

Cab lights can be dimmed but are not authentic anyway for a moving loco.  They should be turned off.  Mine are.  The headcode and marker lights on the Dapol Western are much closer to the actual thing than, for example, the equivalent on the Bachmann Warship.  Those really are bright and are "cold" white akin to fluorescent strips as well rather than "warm" or yellowy white as an incandescent bulb should be.

[Johnfromoz]

Hi all,

 

Having received the customary email from Hattons that my pre-ordered weathered western ('Centurian') is on its way to me, I've taken a look at the online images and am intrigued by the good standard of weathering, albeit slightly different to the earlier Kernow batch. It seems equally well done, but with different shades used for the track dirt etc.

 

On closer examination, it is apparent that the body panel lifting eyelets have all been pre-fitted, a big plus for us modellers who are time starved/ eyesight challenged or both!  I am bemused that Dapol can offer this and professional weathering for a 4GBP premium over the pristine blue ones. Makes this model great value in my book. Just hope the chassis is a good 'un in this batch.

 

The only mild concern I have is that there is possibly a bit of weathering overkill on the front windows. Does anyone have any ideas for gentle removal of the gunk without destroying the glazing?

 

John

[Gwiwer]

The RRP is apparently £145.60 so the Hattons offer of £113.00 is a bargain indeed.  

 

Of interest is the fact that Kernow MRC is currently offering their original commissioned locos at £159.95 (plus £100.00 with sound fitted) and the latest Dapol catalogue releases at £123.99.  All have detail already fitted whereas the original Dapol pristine ones did not and required us to fit the name and number plates ourselves as well.   Those commissions are getting thin on the ground now; I suspect rather few are left on the shelves.

 

There might or might not be any substance to the points that after the first release the R&D costs per unit can be pretty minimal and the marginal utility for more of the same among the customer base reduces as well.  Also as is well known there has been a divergence of commercial ways between Dapol and Kernow MRC.

 

I believe the Dapol Westerns remain fundamentally a remarkably good piece of mass-produced machinery for the price for which we must acknowledge the significant input of Dave Jones and our own expert members here.  I have serious doubts about whether Dapol will be able to match that quality and detail in future without such input.

 

In terms of "de-weathering" I have found light rubbing with a cotton-wool bud is often all that is required to remove sprayed-on dirt from glazing.  The Dapol weathering on the Kernow ones (at least) is well bonded to the body panels and despite extensive - though careful - handling here none has so much as scratched or chipped let alone come away entirely.

[Johnfromoz]

Indeed, Dapol's weathering seems to be a step above the norm of a pass of mud coloured spray recent years (maybe the often cited 'Mercig' influence and effect).

 

The overspray on the windows is trying to emulate the 'unwiped' area of windscreen outside the arc of the wipers which seem slightly too small compared to the prototype. I will have a shot at removing some of it, but if this is too hard I can live with it, as the general weathering is superb.

 

This will be my third Dapol Wizzo,  Here's hoping the electric circuitry is now solid, wheelsets are true and bodyscrews not overtightened!  I'm keeping the faith at this time. I hope that they issue further weathered versions in due course.

 

John

[railroadbill]

Been dithering about getting another maroon one but because of previous agro etc etc - an accurate model though. While I was browsing around I noticed that model rail direct has blue ones for £107.50.  No connection with them, just something I noticed. Might just be of use to someone who wants a later livery one.

Edited July 17, 2014 by railroadbill

[Geoff Endacott]

Five Westerns were built without headboard clips. The other 69 were built with them. So why choose D1026 as the identity of the weathered model when it is one of the five which never had the clips?

 

Geoff Endacott