Heljan Class 14s for Hattons

[Kenton]

That is the first shot of the exhaust pipe of the real thing as all photos in books just show photos from the ground level.

 

Well done that man for posting that picture.

 

It also shows the rain strip location rather well further up the cab roof.

 

But there needs to be some caution - if that is a "restored" example of the prototype.

 

On the "slop" issue - could this be deliberate so that when sold to "normal" users it copes with trainset curves rather than those of us who are perhaps a little too fussy.

 

I'm still praising both Hattons and Hejan for producing what is a fine model ... even if bits fall off in transit

[craigwelsh]

The fine mesh material behind the steps is great, Bachmann should take notice of this.

From the test pictures of the Bachmann 03 it appears to already feature a beautiful fine etch behind the steps. I don't know if they have done another loco that could have required this unless the 08s should have this feature?

[Pennine MC]

On the "slop" issue - could this be deliberate so that when sold to "normal" users it copes with trainset curves

 

Hardly a blinding revelation, I thought that went without saying.

 

? ? rather than those of us who are perhaps a little too fussy.

 

 

 

 

As the slop is quite possibly exacerbating any other mechanical problems, I dont see it as fussy at all

[Pete Piszczek]

There's a lot to like with this model, D9500 arrived in one piece

 

I find it amazing that this is worthy of comment. Are our expectations slipping - surely this should be an absolute given?

 

Not really, I regularly get models that have been "shock tested". The plastic sleeves that Bachmann and Hornby use aren't really fit for international shipping without additional padding. Some UK merchants have been slow to adapt larger boxes with padding. This is really only an issue with locomotives, wagons can have the snot knocked out of them without breaking...

[Trevor H]

Have moved the rainstrip up on mine, used some 15 thou plastic rod which was sanded down once the Mek had set, has very much improved the apperance.

 

Other jobs I've done is to fill the recess in the bonnet door to suit my chosen prototype, fill the miss moulded part in the exhaust with just the single hole, get rid of the rivet detail around the cabside windows, fill the buffer beam holes and move them both back as they are to far forward by about the depth of the buffer beam.

 

All in all very happy with these subtle changes, although it was never a bad model to start with.

 

Trevor

[Pennine MC]

... and move them both back as they are to far forward by about the depth of the buffer beam.

 

 

This sounds interesting Trevor, are you talking about the error that Brian (Kirby) pointed out?

[Brian Kirby]

I agree with Pete and Trevor, that replacing the rainstrip will be an easy mod to improve the look even further, save a touch-up of paint. What's gonna be more difficult is cutting back the footplate fore and aft, with those delicate lights in the way.

Obviously i've already invalidated my loco's warranty by carving up the chassis and now i hear of another D95xx (Pete's) burning out or failing. (That's four that i've heard of). I managed to get the cab and bonnets off mine, but haven't unearthed the motor yet. Despite my chassis mods, i still haven't worked out how to separate the chassis from the footplate ! There are two big screws in the cab that i loosened, but nothing dropped away. Didn't want to force it.

Pardon my ignorance, but what are the "T" shaped slots on the prototype's buffer beams for ?

Cheers, Brian.

[Pete Piszczek]

Here's what killed my Teddy Bear after about an hour of run time:

 

 

The bottom of the DCC plug extends down into the chassis. There's a piece of black electrical tape covering the bottom and sides of the recess. When the tape was removed, there was a puncture wound from one of those DCC plug prongs. Unscrewing the circuit board and lifting it, brought my loco back to life. Not good, I could see some pricey decoders getting fried when the insulating tape wears through...

 

It still runs like a pig though, now I'm going to have to investigate what's wrong in the drive train.

[Trevor H]

This sounds interesting Trevor, are you talking about the error that Brian (Kirby) pointed out?

 

Yes it is Ian, basicaly the front of the bonnet should be about parallel with the the buffer beam.

 

At first I thought it was the bonnets that were to short as the front of the footplate was rather excessive, but on further research I realised it was the buffer beam that protruded to far by about the by about it's own thickness, which makes me think HJ had measured a distance from one point to the front of the bufferbeam and then applied it to the model minus the buffer beam.

 

Picture of unmodified D95xx

 

The mod was not difficult for me as I had already removed all lighting as it's something that does nothing for me, but if you wish to keep the lighting their is a PCB which will also need to be moved back the same distance as it is where the buffer beam needs to go.

 

Once the pcb is removed a cut needs to be made about the thickness of the buffer beam (where the red line is in picture), then the beam will need to be glued directly back on with Mek or your prefered solvent, adding a couple of bits of plasticard to the inside for added strength.

 

This will now show how excessive the front of the footplate is, which can now be filed back about 1 - 1.5mm, I sanded mine back to just in front of the rivet detail.

 

Sorry if my explanation is not to clear but it gives you an idea of how I went about it, will try and take some pics.

 

Trevor

[Brian Kirby]

Glad to hear that you fixed your's Pete, perhaps that was the cause of other total failures ? It does seem to be a rather poor arrangement.

 

Regarding the "T" shaped slots on the buffer beams, are they anything to do with shunter's poles ? 08 shunters seem to have smaller, chunkier "T" slots.

 

I like the 1960s b/w "retro" pic PMP Paul.

 

All this trouble we're all having is quite prototypical, the real Teddy Bears spent most of their BR careers parked up in sidings.

Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

Looking forward to seeing the pics Trevor, would like to see how you get on. I want to keep my working tail-lights, they are one of the best things on this RTR model and look as though they could be easily broken. It will be far harder to fit working tail-lights on my other whitemetal one ! Fibre optics anyone ?

Cheers, Brian.

[Trevor H]

I agree with Pete and Trevor, that replacing the rainstrip will be an easy mod to improve the look even further, save a touch-up of paint. What's gonna be more difficult is cutting back the footplate fore and aft, with those delicate lights in the way.

Obviously i've already invalidated my loco's warranty by carving up the chassis and now i hear of another D95xx (Pete's) burning out or failing. (That's four that i've heard of). I managed to get the cab and bonnets off mine, but haven't unearthed the motor yet. Despite my chassis mods, i still haven't worked out how to separate the chassis from the footplate ! There are two big screws in the cab that i loosened, but nothing dropped away. Didn't want to force it.

Pardon my ignorance, but what are the "T" shaped slots on the prototype's buffer beams for ?

Cheers, Brian.

 

Hi Brian,

 

To get to the motor remove the two screws you mentioned, also their ar two more screws undeneath the chassis at the ends by the couplings, remove these.

 

The metal chassis is in two halves, see parts diagram in HJ instruction sheet, by holding the bottom half pull the top half above the footplate off. You may find it a bit tight, the reason been the motor (same as the Clayton) has two O rings around the motor can and this sandwiches between the two halves of the chassis, I think the compression of the O rings has made a bit of a seal between the two halves, but with a bit of a pull they will seperate, probably no more strength need than it took to remove the cab.

 

My mod of moving the rainstrip up made a vast improvement along with sanding those oversize rivets on the cabside windows. If you actualy look at the rainstrip end on, it's a sought of triangular shape and you'll notice the top actualy travels up the roof, making it look a lot bulkier than it should be.

 

Trevor.

[Coppercap]

Pardon my ignorance, but what are the "T" shaped slots on the prototype's buffer beams for ?

Cheers, Brian.

 

Aren't they for lifting the loco in the works? The 08 shunter has large holes in the bufferbeam too, but not the same shape.

 

I'd love a class 14, but after the class 17 fiasco, I've been watching from the sidelines. Perhaps the class 14 Mk.2 version when it comes along..............

[Trevor H]

Looking forward to seeing the pics Trevor, would like to see how you get on. I want to keep my working tail-lights, they are one of the best things on this RTR model and look as though they could be easily broken. It will be far harder to fit working tail-lights on my other whitemetal one ! Fibre optics anyone ?

Cheers, Brian.

 

The lights are still in place just minus the electrikery bits , I know a lot of people like lighting and agree they can look good, but for me looking back at my spotting days it was something you could never see until dark.

 

The T shapes on the buffer beams I believe are lifting points similar to the class 08s.

 

Trevor.

 

Coppercap beat me too it

[Trevor H]

I too am interested in seeing the mods done. Watching mine closely, as it travels in the short nose direction, the crankshaft travels laterally across the chassis. I'm intending to shim mine, I may just do the crankshaft at first to see if it affects the running.

 

 

Here's what killed my Teddy Bear after about an hour of run time:

 

The bottom of the DCC plug extends down into the chassis. There's a piece of black electrical tape covering the bottom and sides of the recess. When the tape was removed, there was a puncture wound from one of those DCC plug prongs. Unscrewing the circuit board and lifting it, brought my loco back to life. Not good, I could see some pricey decoders getting fried when the insulating tape wears through...

 

It still runs like a pig though, now I'm going to have to investigate what's wrong in the drive train.

 

Glad to see you found the problem Pete, although it could of happened at anytime I always give my locos a thorough run before fitting a decoder otherwise it can become expensive. Also can never understand why manufacturers make the pins longer than the sockets so they protrude out the bottom.

 

 

PMP and Pete,

 

As mentioned earlier the counter gear was rubbing on the one side of the chassis on mine, this is due to the lateral movement when travelling in one direction, obviously when going in the oposite direction the gear would move to the otherside which wasn't causing a problem.

 

I only came across this as i had the loco completely stripped down, so was able to drift the shaft out and fit a shim, which is behind the plastic sideframes so a bit awkard to get too, an easier way without all this work maybe to remove the top half of the chassis as mentioned in my previous post to Brian K and then slide a quarterised shim in location.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Well i paid 115 quid, so i'm keeping my lights !

Thanks Trevor, for the motor access heads-up, it sounds even trickier than i thought, i will venture forward very carefully. Thanks also to Trevor and Coppercap for the "T" explanation, body hoisting does make sense. Come to think of it, i'm sure i've seen a pic of an 08 held up by a hook and chains this way.

Cheers, Brian.

[Trevor H]

Well i paid 115 quid, so i'm keeping my lights !

Thanks Trevor, for the motor access heads-up, it sounds even trickier than i thought, i will venture forward very carefully. Thanks also to Trevor and Coppercap for the "T" explanation, body hoisting does make sense. Come to think of it, i'm sure i've seen a pic of an 08 held up by a hook and chains this way.

Cheers, Brian.

 

No Probs Brian,

 

Seperating the chassis is not as difficult as it sounds, It just sounds scary when you dont know what to expect for the first time.

 

I dont blame you for keeping the lights, do you think HJ will give me a fiver if I return them , another reason I'm not fond of lights is beause I hate wiring

 

Cheers

Trevor

[Brian Kirby]

I like the tail/side lights, not so keen on Heljan's headcode lights. To be fair, i haven't fitted the Class 14 headcodes yet, but on previous models their bulbs or LEDs seem to illuminate only the two centre characters. For this reason i ripped out the headcode lights on my Heljan Clayton and replaced them with wide angle white LEDs mounted directly on the chassis. Trouble is, there's a lot less room inside this Class 14, the whole thing is like a six-wheeled Rubik Cube !

Cheers, Brian.

[Pete Piszczek]

Here's what it looks like when it's been disassembled for those willing to break the model down. You really need the right size screwdriver too, all the fasteners on my sample were so tight that I almost stripped the fastener heads. I also noted that when I removed the fasteners that hold the chassis together, and then ran the model on rollers, slow speed performance improved greatly.

 

 

Two shots of the keeper plate on the bottom that covers the gears. If you slip a flat blade in at the right spot it comes off easily.

 

 

I'm annoyed they left the hole in the keeper plate under the gear. There should be a arched piece here to keep dirt and hair out. The keeper plate is also very weak at this rectangular hole, be careful or you may break it.

 

 

I had trouble disassembling the chassis even after removing the fasteners. Why? Because the wiring was caught between pieces when it was assembled, that's probably why the fasteners were way too tight. This bit was crushed between the metal chassis halves, that's copper showing, a short was probably inevitable at some point.

 

 

Another crushed wire, this time between the plastic hood and platform.

 

 

This is what my counter gear looks like. I was going to follow Trevor's advice and fit a pair of shims to lessen the lateral movement. Close examination revealed a bad tooth (see arrow). Not sure if this is from damage or poor molding- you can really see the bad tooth though when you rotate the gear. The loco has a distinctive thump in one direction. The hairs in the photo are my fault- trying to clean excess lubricant with a cotton bud.

 

 

This model had to be a nightmare for the nimble fingered factory workers to assemble. Not sure how I am going to get it back together.

 

I'm going to ask Hattons for a new counter gear and shim the heck out of everything to reduce slop. There's a part of me that says I should return the loco for a replacement. My personal feeling is that the next might have issues too, there's a lot that can go wrong apparently, and at least I know what's wrong with this one.

 

It is a nice model, in my case though there are some quality issues- caveat emptor.

[Guest Max Stafford]

 

All this trouble we're all having is quite prototypical, the real Teddy Bears spent most of their BR careers parked up in sidings.

Cheers, Brian.

 

Bl**dy 'ell, all this and the Claytons too?, Doesn't bid well for the Baby Deltic...!

 

Dave.

[Baby Deltic]

Looks like my class 14 will be a static exhibit or a display case canditate.

[mikesndbs]

Love that picture!

 

Re the LED and headcode.

Once I fitted the headcode as shown on my video, I found the light more than OK!

 

Reading the tales of errors here, and seeing as these are made in China, I fail to see why they are so highly priced!

Can't imagine Bachmann charging ??115 for the same thing?

 

But, all that said and errors accepted, this is a fantastic ready to run model! I love mine and am very pleased with it.

 

Cheers all

 

Mike

[Brian Kirby]

I'm pleased to report that after a bit of chassis surgery, my Class 14 has settled down to be a nice smooth runner. I had to alter the depth of my rocker beam on the axle at the crank end, i'd made the loco ride slightly high at that end, all fixed now. Apart from improving pick-up, adhesion and stability, compensation should theorectically keep the wheels cleaner, with less arcing, now all wheels are always in contact with the track. Credit to Heljan, the motor and mechanism are lovely and quiet, perhaps the heavy castings have deadened the sound ?

 

Paul, your loco must have the equivalent sideplay (or slop) as everyone else's, perhaps your pick-ups are tighter ? Now i've sorted the running, i can fit the brakeshoes and do the body mods. Perhaps it would be better to replace the handrails (mine were broken) with pins and metal strip. Looking at real pics, the handrails appear to be continuous around the ends, with no gaps.

 

One other slight worry, i'm not sure how much strain those delicate coupling rods will take ?

Cheers, Brian. (85% happy now)

[Pete Piszczek]

I'm pleased to report that after a bit of chassis surgery, my Class 14 has settled down to be a nice smooth runner

 

I'm there now too, smooth running both long hood and short hood directions. Slow speed performance is really good, very quiet, it will be even better once chipped. The missing bit of gear tooth proved not to be a problem, there is enough there to engage, the contact stresses are probably low enough to where it doesn't matter. None of the gears were shimmed, just the external crank.

 

 

Spent hours today checking quartering, looking for tell tail rubs, etc. trying to diagnose why it was a thumper going long hood forward. In the end shims were fitted to the external crank to lessen it's sidewards play- the crank seemed to be the problem. The blocks are 40 thou thick, 70 thou wide, and 125 thou tall. Not sure how wide you could go before the crank might have trouble on sharper curves, there's still side play even with 80 thou worth of shims. The shims were glued in place with rubberized cyanpoxy, a elastic form of superglue. They worked like a charm.

 

 

Be warned, if you shim the crank, the crank pin extends through the back side of the crank and can catch. A Dremel motor tool was used with a cutting wheel to grind the pin ends off flush with the backside. A dab of epoxy may end up in the pin recess on the backside, then filed down flush with the back crank face so there is an even bearing surface on the rear of the crank. I don't want an edge that could eat into my relatively soft plasticard shims. Could get fancy and put a brass wear plate on the face of the shim too...

 

 

I'm pleased with the model's performance now. It still waddles a bit, but the prototype is supposed to be lively, especially at speed.

 

Cosmetics next, blacken the pick-ups, shave the rainstrip off the cab side and relocate it upwards a bit, fill in the pilot, and beg for some accurate numerals from someone's decal set. Even if your cab steps survived shipping without coming adrift, if you plan on disassembling the model, just cut them cleanly off first. That will save you the aggravation of breaking the steps off as you work on it. The steps will be the last thing reattached, with brass pins, when the Teddy Bear is put back together.

 

I agree with Brian, I'm at about a 85% happiness factor with the model. Philosophically speaking, if you treat this as a not strictly RTR model, but a nearly finished kit, and are prepared to put 2-3 hours into fine tuning it, you'll be quite happy. Of course, a decoder isn't fitted yet...

[RedgateModels]

Just had notification from Hattons that my replacement order has been processed, now that's fast, only posted the 14 back on Friday Hope the replacement is okay