Heljan Class 14s for Hattons

[Mark Saunders]

There are plenty of real liveries to produce before these fictional ones are produced!

 

The NCB livery one sold well and I believe that Ashington Blue and Philadelphia Green would sell!

 

Mark Saunders

[47137]

The point I am failing to make is this.

 

These locomotives have spent most of their lives in private hands, and there is no livery which we could reasonably describe as "typical of the class" i.e. "prototypical". If a livery is applied to a locomotive, the livery becomes real and we need to look for a new adjective to describe it - perhaps "industrial" or "preservation" or "one-off" or "sponsored" or even "new" - whatever is the most appropriate for the locomotive in question. I am unhappy about describing them as fictional - only the Loadhaul example cited in the list is fictional - unless we are adopting "fictional" as a jargon word.

 

I think, this locomotive can carry off a wide variety of different schemes very well, but I'm not proposing a particular scheme for a production run. Sorry if this has mislead people.

 

- Richard.

[islandtraction]

I think the preservation liveries of D9523 and D9537, maroon and desert sand respectively are very attractive and would almost certainly have quite a crowd of Teddy bear enthusiasts willing to spend on them.

[br2975]

These locos were owned and operated by BR for 5 years at most, for the next 45 years (that's 9 times longer) they have been in private hands, be it industrial or preservation.

Their 'history' didn't stop on 3rd. May 1969 when the last were withdrawn.

.

I may cringe at some of the liveries now carried, but then I don't own those locos, and the owners are free to paint them however they like.

.

If Heljan want to produce one in pink with lumious yellow spots, so be it - I won't buy it.

 

Brian R

[Mark Saunders]

These locos were owned and operated by BR for 5 years at most, for the next 45 years (that's 9 times longer) they have been in private hands, be it industrial or preservation.

Their 'history' didn't stop on 3rd. May 1969 when the last were withdrawn.

.

I may cringe at some of the liveries now carried, but then I don't own those locos, and the owners are free to paint them however they like.

.

If Heljan want to produce one in pink with lumious yellow spots, so be it - I won't buy it.

 

Brian R

 

Brian

 

How many people are regretting buying their Load Haul liveried one or was it just because it was a Limited Edition?

 

Mar

[mikesndbs]

Mine has been running well ever since I did my easy mod on the jack cranks, but it's now clear the gears and motor bearings need lubrication.

Has anyone done this without destroying the loco? I had a look but can't find a way in.

 

Thanks

[br2975]

Brian

 

How many people are regretting buying their Load Haul liveried one or was it just because it was a Limited Edition?

 

Mar

 

That's why I adopted a purchasing strategy ............... having spent a small fortune over the years on models I liked the look of, but were wholly inapropriate for anything other than a display cabinet or the back of an already full drawer ................................ 

.

Brian R

[islandtraction]

Prototypical livery was BR Green for BR service. In industry it was the industry that acquired them.

The various toy town liveries applied in preservation, have no bearing on the classes history and can't be considered prototypical... unless of course we are widening that to encompass all noddy liveries that have appeared on every other class over the years, but relatively speaking class 14s (and probably J94s ) have been the more historically abused in terms of accurate portrayal of history in preservation, some liveries better than others.

As others have said people are free to choose what they buy with their own money, and "heritage/preservation" etc style liveries won't appeal to everyone, but will to many. The hobby is or should be a broad church where enjoying how your money is spent is key. Most of us wouldn't have model railways at all if it was compulsory to be historically correct in every aspect e.g. you can't have 80032 on your ex LSWR line because it was at Crewe North throughout the period of the layout. Many BR layouts are of fictitious locations yet host regional types that wouldn't ordinarily have been seen there. Many have light railways where prototypical freedom is enormous with imagination. Manufacturers are well aware of the diversity of tastes within the hobby and thankfully strive to serve them all. As the French say, "Vive la difference".

[malcolmy]

Having spent many frustrating hours taking my 14 apart, and checking everything, and then struggling to cram everything back in place to put it back together, I have a nice smooth running unit on DCC (using a TCS chip). The erratic running issue I had was solved by tweaking all the wheel pickups, so that they bent further outwards from the chassis and contacted the (cleaned) wheel backs much more reliably.

 

Amazingly (for me) I have managed to retain all the extra bits to add on (although I did manage to break both sets of steps off too!)

 

My only remaining issue is the supplied couplings. They are way too short. On other stock, the tension lock coupling bar is generally on the same line as the buffer faces, whereas if the Class 14 couplings are pushed home, they are too far back, and don't swivel through the slot in the buffer beam.

 

Has anyone sourced viable replacement couplings, or found a reliable solution please? I suppose I could just glue the existing couplings into the sockets and hope the glue is stronger than the weight of any trains it hauls?!?

Edited April 23, 2015 by malcolmy

[47137]

My only remaining issue is the supplied couplings. They are way too short. On other stock, the tension lock coupling bar is generally on the same line as the buffer faces, whereas if the Class 14 couplings are pushed home, they are too far back, and don't swivel through the slot in the buffer beam.

 

Has anyone sourced viable replacement couplings, or found a reliable solution please? I suppose I could just glue the existing couplings into the sockets and hope the glue is stronger than the weight of any trains it hauls?!?

My model has Kadee #20 couplers fitted (I use Kadees on all my trains now), these are long enough to put the rear of the knuckle in front of the buffers. So (and I know this is far from ideal for your situation), if you could attach a wagon with a similar Kadee on one end and a tension lock on the other, this would work.

 

- Richard.

Edited April 23, 2015 by 47137

[SRman]

Hornby and Bachmann also have some longer couplings available, which will simply plug into the existing pockets.

[malcolmy]

OK - I'll look for those. I noted last night that the 'fingers' on the Heljan coupling were much finer than any Hornby/Bachmann coupling I have seen. By 'fingers' I mean the prongs that lock the coupling into the mounting. So perhaps the Heljan mounting/socket is non standard? i.e. too narrow?

[47137]

The Heljan socket is too long and it is in the wrong place too! The socket should be short enough to let the 'fingers' on the coupler emerge and lock around the back of the socket.

 

The specification for the size and location of the sockets is NEM 362, "Aufnahme für austauschbare Kupplungsköpfe" - German text only as far as I know, but at least it's easy to understand the illustrations.

 

- Richard.

 

nem362-d.pdf

[class37418stag]

I brought class 14 British steel no.45 and wish buy one more to how need new different number means no.52 on class 14 make twi shunter at British steel work by what I want

 

Anyone know how or who can do that?

 

Thank you

 

Or maybe I buy blue class 14 for shunt at modern yard

[Phil Bullock]

Hi there

 

You can remove the original numbers with Modelstrip paste and speak to Steve at Rail Tec about transfers for the new numbers

 

We did this to renumber our BR loco to D9525

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[BlackRat]

Prototypical livery was BR Green for BR service. In industry it was the industry that acquired them.

The various toy town liveries applied in preservation, have no bearing on the classes history and can't be considered prototypical... unless of course we are widening that to encompass all noddy liveries that have appeared on every other class over the years, but relatively speaking class 14s (and probably J94s ) have been the more historically abused in terms of accurate portrayal of history in preservation, some liveries better than others.

The livery applied today, becomes a historic livery tomorrow, the argument being whether a livery in 'preservation' becomes historic.

 

These loco's aren't preserved as I take it they are still working for a living, so any livery is therefore 'authentic'?

[BlackRat]

what point was it I was trying to score then?

[Jenny Emily]

I wouldn't consider a livery that a real loco carried as not prototypical. If the real think carried it, then the livery is prototypical for that loco at that point in time. The class 14s look pretty good in liveries that they have acquired post preservation. I also wouldn't mind a class 15 in the Railfreight livery it carried early in preservation, but then I'm odd and have a class 04 with TOPS number applied. I only later discovered that a real one had acquired a similar livery in preservation.

[class37418stag]

Hello everyone

 

I has searched to find class 14 loadhaul livery but nothing there

[Phil Bullock]

Do you mean the model?

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/33112/Heljan_1407_Class_14_Teddy_Bear_14701_Loadhaul_Livery_Limited_Edition_of_200_with_certificat/StockDetail.aspx

 

The real thing never existed...its a fake livery

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[class37418stag]

Do you mean the model?

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/33112/Heljan_1407_Class_14_Teddy_Bear_14701_Loadhaul_Livery_Limited_Edition_of_200_with_certificat/StockDetail.aspx

 

The real thing never existed...its a fake livery

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

Ok I understand why Heljan painted that loadhaul by fake BUT Heljan just paint Railfreight by swanage railway own that and painted Railfreight livery and been running on swanage railway route by I believe that class 14 carry Railfreight colours

[SRman]

Ok I understand why Heljan painted that loadhaul by fake BUT Heljan just paint Railfreight by swanage railway own that and painted Railfreight livery and been running on swanage railway route by I believe that class 14 carry Railfreight colours

The class 14s never ran in Railfreight colours under BR - they were all sold off long before that. If a preserved one is in Railfreight colours, then that, too, is a fictional livery, in much the same way as there was a preserved class 40 (was it 40 145?) running in large logo blue livery for a while ... and damned good it looked too (IMHO)!

[Ian J.]

It could be argued that any livery, once applied, ceases to be fictional, regardless of whether that's in revenue earning service or preservation. What is true, is that a livery of a given company/organisation applied to an item of rolling stock when that item is not owned by or operated by that company/organisation, is unofficial. But if you were operating a model of a preserved item and that item had that livery in preservation then it is a valid livery.

 

What it might then come down to is context. If someone wants to run a model of a class 14 in Railfreight colours on what in effect would be main line revenue earning duties then it would be a fictional operation, rather than a fictional livery.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Ian J.

[SRman]

That thought did occur to me, Ian, but I didn't want to get bogged down in the finer definitions. You are certainly correct that it ceases to be "fictional" in the strict sense, once a livery has been applied to the real thing. I think it starts to get messy if we dig too deeply, though.

Whichever way one thinks of these things, some of the 'might-have-been' liveries applied in preservation look very attractive.

Then again, some of these fictional liveries applied to models also are very attractive; there is a whole topic devoted to model versions elsewhere on RMweb. One of those that stood out to me was a Western in DB red and black livery, as applied originally to their V200 locomotives. But that is digressing a bit. Regardless of whether it was an original livery, the class 14 in Railfreight livery would look very attractive to me, probably more so than the Loadhaul livery on the Hattons model.

[Steve K]

I may cringe at some of the liveries now carried, but then I don't own those locos, and the owners are free to paint them however they like.

.

If Heljan want to produce one in pink with lumious yellow spots, so be it - I won't buy it.

 

As carried by Crinkley Bottom Quarry, I believe.