Heljan Beyer garratt

[ozzyo]

I agree the model has been produced to a budget, the 'down to a price' effect if you like.

 

The retention of pony truck brakes, the very light weathering, the apparent inability to effectively blacken rods, and the (hopefully few) quality control issues suggests to me that manufacturing of parts and assembly of finished models received little in the way of care and changes which might have delayed sales. [edit; 'further delay sales'] Thus also the 'down to a price' occasionally warped cab, seized drivetrain, and so on.

 

The basic model is I think very brave and when compared to a similarly complex model for the Euro market I cannot see is being less than double the price.

 

I'm personally never likely to be running models for many hours, never have in the past, I have always been there in the room, and while I fully accept that a model should run faultlessly for many hours in its lifetime, it would take years of use to reach (for me). Do people actually leave the room with an engine circulating and then come back every now and then to see if it is still going correctly? How many hours of running is acceptable proof of 'fit for purpose'? To what extent must the retailer be responsible for small imperfections in assembly, lubrication, possible mis-handling by manufacturer or buyer?

 

To me the smooth DC running of my Garratts is a sheer pleasure to watch. I am very impressed by Hattons replacement policy. I do hope they will make some money out of it all.

 

Hello all,

 

when I'm building a loco I tend to run them in for about 24-48 hours. Sometimes in blocks of 8 hours at a time and yes I sometimes leave the room but not for long.

 

Some of the problems should have been noticed at the factory, I'm thinking about the cab, the brakes well it's easer to remove them than add them. The valve gear / drive train locking up that could show that the locos have not been road tested, but for some people this did not show up until the loco had run for a number of hours.

 

Saying all of the above if I modelled in 4mm I would have had one, as at £200 for what is in effect two locos it must be very good value (even with some of the "small" problems).

 

Yes the heavy weathering does look a bit on the light side to me (but if they had gone for total grot, it could have been too much for some people), you can always add more. But to remove it?

 

As re6/6 said it looks like a Garratt so it must be one. Looking at the numbers in Re6/6s post they also look a bit big.

Now lets see all of the threads about improving the model appear.

 

OzzyO.

[Rail-Online]

Just got my credit card bill through and I have been charged twice for my model despatched on 27th June. Spoke to Hattons and they are looking into it.

 

Am I the only one? - Check your credit card bills chaps!

 

Tony

[Grovenor]

 

Also the bunker ledge seems to be too short.

Not so much also, rather 'instead', the numbers look to be correctly placed wrt to the cylinders and valve gear, if the ledge was the correct length then the dribble would correctly cover the number. Incidentally does the Irwell book give any support for the backward facing Lion? Or is that also in need of a replacement.

Regards

Keith

[Re6/6]

You're quite right Keith. The error is that the ledge is too short. The numbers are in the correct position (if a tad large IMHO).

 

I shall be looking into correcting the ledge in due course to achieve the characteristic limescale dribble.

[robmcg]

Ignoring number positions and bunker ledge lengths for a moment, here's one to be going on with...

 

Another nail in the coffin of BR steam art. After all is said and done, Garratts weren't hard on coal, never made a fuss, were usually out-of-service with a hot axle box anyway... so what if crews didn't like them, and shed foremen didn't have a single polite word for them... it was all a plot by Derby men to keep their 3Fs and 2Fs in the style of the ancient Midland.

 

But they looked spectacular!

 

[robmcg]

Not so much also, rather 'instead', the numbers look to be correctly placed wrt to the cylinders and valve gear, if the ledge was the correct length then the dribble would correctly cover the number. Incidentally does the Irwell book give any support for the backward facing Lion? Or is that also in need of a replacement.

Regards

Keith

The ledge looks a little short to me, also I suspect the numbers have been placed rather haphazardly, my LMS 7983 has them possibly a fraction low.

 

As to the Irwell book, I have looked at every photo during the last year and a further perusal shows ZERO backward-facing lions, but several where grime renders the emblem all-but-invisible, e.g. page 28 with 47967 in 1956 with a lot of weathering effects, including the usual water staining and a patch on the lower rear edge of the water tank. Actually there seem to be rather fewer pics of these engines around than many others, maybe because most went in 1956-7 last one in1958 and photography of goods trains was somewhat less common than in the 1960s?

Edited August 5, 2014 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Unfortunately my planned trip to Hattons has had to be cancelled, pressure of work.

 

It has now arrived at my pals who ordered it for me, and I shall meet up at the pub this evening for the official unveiling and hand over ceremony.

 

No more pills.!!!!!!

 

Bob

You realise, don't you, that the 'unboxing' of these models requires a calm mind and a clear head, or is that a calm head and a clear mind, aided by a pair of dextrous hands and a large clear table top or workspace.

Thus the model can be viewed from several angles, turned around, and tentatively run on a short length of track to gasps of astonishment when it (in my experience anyway) runs smoothly and quietly at low speed.

 

Then you look for misalignments, errors, imperfections and suchlike, and share them with us in RMweb.

 

As you can see, it is a ceremony of the most complex and intense nature, and I have two such events expected later this week....

 

Rob

Edited August 5, 2014 by robmcg

[panzerjaeger]

Unfortunately, my BG will be going back to Hattons tomorrow. Upon opening the packaging, I thought I had been sent the wrong model but as others have commented, for the price, it isn't a problem to tackle the weathering yourself or have it done professionally.

 

However, upon careful examination, it appears that mine had been assembled late on Friday by the final shift after the quality control man had gone home for the weekend.

 

Patches of gloss paint had been painted over imperfections on the loco frame, the sanding pipes pointed everywhere except at the wheels, plus the plate at the rear of the cab fell off as it came out of the package and so on.

 

I ran it in for an hour or so in each direction and it performed superbly, as all Heljan mechanisms do. 

 

I had made a foam cradle in which to lift the loco from the track and turned the model upside down. The wheels were almost black with tar and each one needed cleaning with GOO GONE. I must admit to being very surprised as my trackwork is clean and my other loco wheels seldom need cleaning. 

 

This morning, prior to returning the BG to its box, I noticed more missing or badly fitted parts and decided to give Hattons a call. They suggested I return it for replacement. At first, I felt guilty about such nitpicking but there were so many minor faults with the model, it had to go back. Within minutes I had received a return postage voucher by email from Hattons, another example of the superb service offered by the company.

 

I appreciate that RTR models are mass produced and that some parts will become dislodged in transit or the odd handrail etc. will be bent slightly and I am more than happy to repair the damage. Unfortunately, this example had far too many examples of poor and shoddy workmanship; I just hope that its replacement was produced midweek.

 

Bob

[robmcg]

Of the five I have bought so far, I have a had two instances of parts not assembled correctly, like handrails, and the plate across the front of the frames (ahead of smokebox) off, and one where the cab is not seated properly on the frame, and possibly the cab assembly or the frame is a little warped, but none where the wheels are gunked-up, nor things falling off. I'm not sending the model(s) back to the UK unless they are very bad. Expensive. Although Hattons might eventually defray some cost. That said, I don't have a layout to run these models apart from a short up-and-down straight track, so I cannot comment about that side.

 

It seems that assembly is in a bit poor in general, but I would suggest that this is not out of kilter with Hornby or Bachmann, who use similar production system?

 

In any event, commiserations and I hope you receive a better model. Most disappointing.

 

Rob

[coachmann]

The 1949-56 totems were produced LH and RH so's they could face the smokebox. The Garratts were no different.

[robmcg]

Well that settles that then. Unless someone somewhere put an emblem on the wrong side...

 

BR never made mistakes....

Edited August 4, 2014 by robmcg

[toboldlygo]

Well that settles that then. Unless someone somewhere put an emblem on the wrong side...

 

BR never made mistakes....

 

Unlike Hattons and Heljan....

[Stevelewis]

Re  the  assembly  problems etc.........I would think  that  the BG  is  not  made in the  same factory  as  Heljans  0 Gauge  locos?

 

Never  had  any problems  with  those over the  years.

[coachmann]

Even if one loco got out with an early totem facing the wrong way, one would not copy a one-off for mass production. It's a modelling mistake.

[enginelane]

Saw an example running on the test track at the club rooms yesterday and was running very well. An impressive piece of kit. Up in the loft is a part built K's Kits example that will never turn a wheel and if I was still modelling that era would have taken the plunge on the Hattons version.

[trains12]

I received my garratt 47996 on Saturday, agree that the heavy weathering is very light, if you blink you will miss it.

 

As usual filler caps, steps etc lying in the box but can easily be re-attached.

 

The main problem, and I apologise if this has already been discussed here, is the cab roof vents. On mine it is just 2 holes in the roof with no sliding vents either separate or moulded. Is this correct? It means that the poor driver and fireman are open to all the weathers. Can someone advise if this is the same in all cases or an omission with this model?

 

Peter

[bigherb]

The main problem, and I apologise if this has already been discussed here, is the cab roof vents. On mine it is just 2 holes in the roof with no sliding vents either separate or moulded. Is this correct? It means that the poor driver and fireman are open to all the weathers. Can someone advise if this is the same in all cases or an omission with this model?

 

Peter

It is correct, see page 46

[trains12]

Hi bigherb

Thanks for that.

Peter

[Monjac]

The gentleman postie arrived this morning at 9.0 am prompt ,hooted his horn and waited patiently for me to arrive at the gatepost whereupon he handed the parcel over to me.

6 days to get here , although Royal Mail track is still saying that it is in Paris !

Up to the roof space to open and test. No broken bits. Weathering light for a heavy weathering but effective.Superb model.

So , mm ????,  there must be something to complain about .

Oh yes. Whilst it runs smoothly it goes too fast ! Measured with my Speedwagon it goes 78 mph and that is without running in .

I am now going to send it back to Hattons and demand they fit a speed limiter restricting it to 50 .mph or less ?

[cctransuk]

I received my garratt 47996 on Saturday, agree that the heavy weathering is very light, if you blink you will miss it.

 

As usual filler caps, steps etc lying in the box but can easily be re-attached.

 

The main problem, and I apologise if this has already been discussed here, is the cab roof vents. On mine it is just 2 holes in the roof with no sliding vents either separate or moulded. Is this correct? It means that the poor driver and fireman are open to all the weathers. Can someone advise if this is the same in all cases or an omission with this model?

 

Peter

 

Look again - the sliding vents are there, in the wide open position, but moulded in very low relief.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[JZ]

One thing I have just discovered. When coupling up with most loco's, a little overspeed and the wheels just slip as the wagons touch the bufferstop. With the Garratt you end up with a pile of wagons. Now set the deceleration for maximum control. 

[JSpencer]

Mine too arrived today at lunch time (in Paris as well).

 

The first indication it had arrived was that it suddenly went from day to night out doors as the postman catapulted it over the fence.

The box was blackenned as re-entered Earth's atmosphere, in fact the box is more weathered than the loco.

 

The blocked sun was then replaced by a raging fireball which slammed into the concrete drive The shockwave could be felt for miles, my wife calling instantly to complain "not another parcel...".

 

I went out into the garden with fearful trepidation. Box crushed and scared in all directions. Removed the hot outer box, bubble wrap ok, but the blue Heljan box outer is a write off being bent crushed and deformed in all sense.

 

Time to look at the loco. The cab had sprung off, the filler cab had popped. For the former, I wanted an open cab Garrett anyway (see comment on 1F thread)... the latter I popped back on. Paint had flaked off the conrods...

 

I will look closer tonight, compare with online photos and then give it a test run tonight.

But so far looks intact after my first impression. I will compare with photoes on Hattons website tonight

Edited August 5, 2014 by JSpencer

[Monjac]

You have my sympathy . I have complained from time to time  by letter sent to the depot with photos when I have had problems, e.g things squeezed into the letter box with 50 % hanging out etc, always accompanied by photos. Each time the facteur personally apologized.

But your treatment is ......... just not on !

Bonne chance

[JSpencer]

Good news, loco is healthy, runs really well.

 

Ditto others on comments about sand pipes etc. not too hard to correct. We now know 2 of these Garrett's are in France.

 

My French rail friends looked at it and said "what an odd loco..." One said "looks too big and awkward to be practical on a layout". Maybe but I did not buy it to fill a motive power gap.

[Grovenor]

Look again - the sliding vents are there, in the wide open position, but moulded in very low relief.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Very low relief indeed, and the hatch covers are not big enough to actually close the hole, but a minor point in the scheme of things.

 

On another note, have now an oval of track to give it more of a run, and no sign of any locking up, radius 2 is pretty marginal for it though, does go round smoothly enough but one or other end driving axle pops off now and again. it does show up why they put the boiler unit pivots in the wrong place, if they had been at the prototypical position the bunker would foul the cab on such corners.

Keith