Kernow commission ex LSWR Gate Stock Pull Push Sets

[Butler Henderson]

Surely a sample of the production should approved by Kernow. If the factory have changed it without agreement then they are in breach of contract.

[bubbles2]

Kernow Models had some for sale at the Bodmin exhibition yesterday (and maybe today if any left), all liveries I think at the full price, just a few that had been air freighted for the magazine reviews, I will wait for the boat to come in with my prepaid one.  

Edited October 29, 2017 by bubbles2

[Ian Hargrave]

Surely a sample of the production should approved by Kernow. If the factory have changed it without agreement then they are in breach of contract.

 

Er...exactly how do you apply "breach of contract" in terms of a factory in China ? Some very rich pickings for counsel there.......far too rich for most,Kernow included I imagine...

[dibber25]

Er...exactly how do you apply "breach of contract" in terms of a factory in China ? Some very rich pickings for counsel there.......far too rich for most,Kernow included I imagine...

 

...and isn't this the factory that demanded cash up front before the models were shipped? (CJL)

[woodenhead]

...and isn't this the factory that demanded cash up front before the models were shipped? (CJL)

Maybe they knew something was about to be spotted so covered the risk by demanding payment up front.

 

Lets hope it's not this factory that Kernow are now dealing with direct.

[NHY 581]

Surely Kernow are simply the customers of who ever was commissioned to produce these on their behalf. Any faults rest not with Kernow or researchers but with whoever produced the CADs etc or have the specs been changed since then?

 

Did they commission the factory direct?

 

If so there would have been terms and conditions when these were commissioned.

 

Were the T&C changed before release.

 

This is a bit messy tovsay the least and I feel for Kernow. They appear to have been had over and placed in a difficult position.

 

To their credit they have kept their own council over these issues.

 

 

 

 

Rob.

[woodenhead]

Surely Kernow are simply the customers of who ever was commissioned to produce these on their behalf. Any faults rest not with Kernow or researchers but with whoever produced the CADs etc or have the specs been changed since then?

 

Did they commission the factory direct?

 

If so there would have been terms and conditions when these were commissioned.

 

Were the T&C changed before release.

 

This is a bit messy tovsay the least and I feel for Kernow. They appear to have been had over and placed in a difficult position.

 

To their credit they have kept their own council over these issues.

 

 

 

 

Rob.

According to the review from Graham Muz the Cads were in order it was at the factory things appear to have gone awry.

 

Kernow do keep their own counsel on this and just deliver the goods, the 1361 is another example where they don't feel the need to explain themselves - the splashers were always on the CADs so we missed them, it was there in plain sight from very early on.  Which is very different from Dave Jones himself who is expected by all to explain every little thing he does like we own him (seperate topic I know).

[Ian Hargrave]

According to the review from Graham Muz the Cads were in order it was at the factory things appear to have gone awry.

 

Kernow do keep their own counsel on this and just deliver the goods, the 1361 is another example where they don't feel the need to explain themselves - the splashers were always on the CADs so we missed them, it was there in plain sight from very early on.  Which is very different from Dave Jones himself who is expected by all to explain every little thing he does like we own him (seperate topic I know).

 Now that's an entirely different matter. DJ is almost entirely dependant upon online publicity and marketing...most of it on this forum...and that is his choice .....he wants it that way and so he has to take what comes.,To be fair he takes it all with equanimity.Chris Trerise keeps his own counsel for which there are valid reasons I have no doubt.He does not post on this forum.There is no obligation upon any person to explain themselves,least of all a commercial organisation which has to keep many plates in the air all at the same time and for which confidentiality is sometimes necessary.Mike ( Stationmaster ) has explained the position with regard to the 1361 which is produced with the participation and cooperation of the GWS Didcot members,A donation from each purchase (£5) goes towards the 1363 Restoration project

[Butler Henderson]

Kernow do keep their own counsel on this and just deliver the goods, the 1361 is another example where they don't feel the need to explain themselves - the splashers were always on the CADs so we missed them, it was there in plain sight from very early on.  Which is very different from Dave Jones himself who is expected by all to explain every little thing he does like we own him (seperate topic I know).

Apart from the little fact that both are DJ Models products. Wonder how long before they appear at Hattons etc marked down in price.

[woodenhead]

Apart from the little fact that both are DJ Models products. Wonder how long before they appear at Hattons etc marked down in price.

The 71 was DJM crowdfunding with Kernow the distributors, the 1361s are Kernow products and will unlikely be passed on to anyone else - you don't see 02s appearing anywhere except as second hand.

[roythebus]

The picture I was sent was monochrome. It's pretty obviously a crimson vehicle though, as the alternative would be green, and that wouldn't have single horizontal lining. As to the crimson shade, it's academic as we all see colours differently, but to my eye the gate stock is slightly more purple than the Bachmann birdcage which I checked alongside it. If you check the on line references for birdcage stock (I don't have the link but I'll try to find it and post it later) there's a shot of an ex-works restored birdcage in glossy crimson and its a very much brighter red than either the Bachmann or Kernow models. For years we've been conditioned to models in fairly subdued shades of carmine (perhaps because the true colour looks too bright and gaudy on a model) but it should be the same shade as the bottom half of a blood & custard Mk1 and it seldom is. (CJL)

 

Here's the link. The KESR is renowned for the accuracy of its historic carriage restorations:

http://www.preservation.kesr.org.uk/coaching-stock/se-cr

 

When the KESR Birdcage brake received its 2nd repaint on BR crimson/carmine/whatever it's called, it was a different shade to the first repaint. I speak from first hand experience of working with the real thing on the operating department. It's now the darker shade the IWSR coaches are painted.

[Butler Henderson]

The 71 was DJM crowdfunding with Kernow the distributors, the 1361s are Kernow products and will unlikely be passed on to anyone else - you don't see 02s appearing anywhere except as second hand.

I would expect the 02s are selling relatively well and their is no need yet to seek to shift them quicker than they are selling. We have seen models sold be others elsewhere, Olivias 76s for example. The Gatestock is taking quite a hammering on MRF from Mr Swain and one poster on their has cancelled their order having seen the late BR version. The review by Graham Muz does raise the issue of can the underframe be easily corrected by a purchaser, and will there be a second batch with the obvious errors addressed - aside from the underframe, the seat, the misaligned ends compared to the sides and an extra coat paint on the late BR one to make the sunken rivets look less like the coach has received the attention of a machine gun.

[roythebus]

Presumably Mansell wheels had a fairly predictable life-span, (I'm guessing, shorter than those made in one piece?) and vehicles originally equipped with them would have received current components as replacement became necessary.

 

I've never seen it expressly stated, but consider it probable that, at some point, it would have become "policy" to replace surviving Mansell wheels with steel ones as track-circuiting became more common. 

 

John

 

Some of the Bluebell Maunsell coaches have Maunsell wheels AND are passed for for use on the big railway. they were taken to kings Cross along with the Met Railway Chesham set and the C class for a film job. My son was the fireman on there for a couple of days and as a rolling stock engineer took interest in that fact.

[woodenhead]

I would expect the 02s are selling relatively well and their is no need yet to seek to shift them quicker than they are selling. We have seen models sold be others elsewhere, Olivias 76s for example. The Gatestock is taking quite a hammering on MRF from Mr Swain and one poster on their has cancelled their order having seen the late BR version. The review by Graham Muz does raise the issue of can the underframe be easily corrected by a purchaser, and will there be a second batch with the obvious errors addressed - aside from the underframe, the seat, the misaligned ends compared to the sides and an extra coat paint on the late BR one to make the sunken rivets look less like the coach has received the attention of a machine gun.

If they correct the later batch does that mean we early adopters get replacement chassis or a discount?

 

One 02 model has been part of an offer package to clear some stock, the Maunsell green sold out (sadly I missed out through my own stupidity) but the others still exist in numbers.  Maybe with the Gate Stock available people will pick up some more 02s.

 

Mr Swain hammers anything that isn't his I think, however he will have bragging rights about the 1361 splashers I suppose, but the underframe issue here is a mistake by the factory not a CAD issue.

 

Anyway I am looking forward to my Gate Stock, I am sure when I see it I will be hard pressed to find anything wrong as I don't have the luxury of drawings or having seen one in the flesh to know any better - sometimes being ignorant can be a blessing.

[Tim Dubya]

Anyway I am looking forward to my Gate Stock, I am sure when I see it I will be hard pressed to find anything wrong as I don't have the luxury of drawings or having seen one in the flesh to know any better - sometimes being ignorant can be a blessing.

 

Exactly!

 

The other option is to get ripped off on eBay for the almost impossible to build Jidenco kits or scratch build.

 

If anybody doesn't want theirs drop me a pm, I'll take it off your hands - any livery, I've got a hair brush

.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[gwrrob]

Mr Swain could have an argument in an empty room and seems to me to be an obnoxious fellow. Those on MRF are welcome to him.

[PrestburyJack]

Edited below....

Edited October 30, 2017 by PrestburyJack

[PrestburyJack]

Anyway I am looking forward to my Gate Stock, I am sure when I see it I will be hard pressed to find anything wrong as I don't have the luxury of drawings or having seen one in the flesh to know any better - sometimes being ignorant can be a blessing.

Agreed 100%

[NHY 581]

Put quite simply, Kernow have entered into parnership with various bodies to produce a model of, to me at least, a very desirable prototype.

 

It appears that they have been badly let down by some elements of this partnership.

 

 

No doubt they will learn from this and distance themselves from these partners for their future projects.

 

 

Rob

[Oldddudders]

Exactly!

 

The other option is to get ripped off on eBay for the almost impossible to build Jidenco kits or scratch build.

 

If anybody doesn't want theirs drop me a pm, I'll take it off your hands - any livery, I've got a hair brush

.

 

And that is the issue. Would you prefer a slightly flawed coach set or none at all? The choice is yours and mine. I will be 69 next month, and am deeply unlikely ever to see a better affordable representation than this. Thankyou, Chris Trerise. 

[Clearwater]

Interestingly Mr Muspratt refers in his review to “those most vocal & critical rivet counters for whom perhaps no model will ever meet their perceived standards.”

 

No model is ever going to be absolutely spot on - there are too many parts some of which are never going to scale down.

 

Kenrow has taken the commercial risk, produced something that’s a hell of a lot better than no model, we can debate whether it’s 79,80,90 or 95% accurate. If want to improve it, either get your scalpel out or learn CAD and negotiate with the factory and get your own fully assembled rtr product to market.

 

Let’s keep a sense of proportion. How many 1970s/80s models would stand scrutiny today? The compromises on those seem legion in comparison

 

David

[JSpencer]

The 71 was DJM crowdfunding with Kernow the distributors, the 1361s are Kernow products and will unlikely be passed on to anyone else - you don't see 02s appearing anywhere except as second hand.

Well some of the second batch Bachmann to Kernow exclusive 2H class 205s did eventually appear elsewhere but that was purely Kernow's decision to dispose of them.

Unlikely on the gate stock or tank locos unless a serious number were cancelled.

 

I,ve read the minor flaws but remember seeing far far worse on 4-VEPs yet I have 3 of those. Those on the gate stock are not really going to be noticed as it is push-pulled around the layout, but lack of passengers will clearly stand out a mile on these highly glazed models. And if you are going to add passengers, fixing two of the errors can easily be done at the same time.

[Dunsignalling]

And that is the issue. Would you prefer a slightly flawed coach set or none at all? The choice is yours and mine. I will be 69 next month, and am deeply unlikely ever to see a better affordable representation than this. Thankyou, Chris Trerise. 

Having, several years ago, inherited a part-built set (Jidenco kits) that gets taken out periodically, tutted over, and put away again, I couldn't agree more. 

 

John

Edited October 31, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[woodenhead]

Well some of the second batch Bachmann to Kernow exclusive 2H class 205s did eventually appear elsewhere but that was purely Kernow's decision to dispose of them.

Unlikely on the gate stock or tank locos unless a serious number were cancelled.

 

I,ve read the minor flaws but remember seeing far far worse on 4-VEPs yet I have 3 of those. Those on the gate stock are not really going to be noticed as it is push-pulled around the layout, but lack of passengers will clearly stand out a mile on these highly glazed models. And if you are going to add passengers, fixing two of the errors can easily be done at the same time.

I wouldn't be without my 4-VEP, the Dapol Railcar is another with big windows asking for passengers.

[trevor7598]

Some of the Bluebell Maunsell coaches have Maunsell wheels AND are passed for for use on the big railway. they were taken to kings Cross along with the Met Railway Chesham set and the C class for a film job. My son was the fireman on there for a couple of days and as a rolling stock engineer took interest in that fact.

 

This is utter rubbish, ALL the Bluebell coaches that went to King's Cross in February 2016 for filming had steel wheels.

The four Metropolitan coaches also have steel wheels.

You refer to Maunsell wheels, I think you mean Mansell wheels, which have wooden centres, usually teak,

,

For this reason my Birdcage brake 3363 did not go to King's Cross, as it has Mansell wheels.

Edited October 30, 2017 by trevor7598