brossard Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My friend came hurtling round today with two 4mm signals clutched in his hand. I started to wire them up but ran into a snag. The instructions say that a 16VAC power supply should be used. I have an old DC controller that has an AC accessory output. Trouble is, the voltage is 19VAC. Now, I don't think this should matter, but I wonder, for those that have got their signals working, what did you use for power? The layout is DCC. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Jeez... if they do I might as well chuck me tools away...... JF Don't be daft John, we make model signals, these are straight from "Toy Land", they look nothing like the real thing. Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hi Mick, Did you forget to put an ironic smiley in your post or do you really think that little about a ready to plant working signal for £24.95? If they look nothing like the real thing I am immediately concerned as to what I considered worthy experienced opinion on this forum who seem to like them. Cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 These look a lot more like signals than those from that other major manufacturer and they put working signals at the price point and complexity level (or lack therof) in range of most railway modellers - yay! John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Don't be daft John, we make model signals, these are straight from "Toy Land", they look nothing like the real thing. Mick. Hi Mick, Did you forget to put an ironic smiley in your post or do you really think that little about a ready to plant working signal for £24.95? If they look nothing like the real thing I am immediately concerned as to what I considered worthy experienced opinion on this forum who seem to like them. Cheers Dave As I see it: The Dapol signals do not compare with the Hand-built masterpieces Mick and others construct (no Ready to Use product ever will) They do have certain design compromises in the interests of producing a robust item at a commercially viable price (e.g. lack of a balance weight, thickness of the arms). However: They are a big step forward from any previous attempt to produce a ready to use signal. I very much doubt anyone could build by hand and motorise a comparable item for the same price. They aren't sufficiently accurate to satisfy the 'top end' of the market, but are probably sufficient to appeal to a significant proprtion of 'middle ground' modellers and there will be others for whom they represent a reasonable basis to start from and customise e.g. fit balance weights, replacement etched brass arms... Paul 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 If they look nothing like the real thing I am immediately concerned as to what I considered worthy experienced opinion on this forum who seem to like them. Like them? Of course they like them! As PLD has said, they cannot reasonably be expected to compete with the handbuilt offerings such as Mick and others (but not many) can produce, but they will be more than good enough for many, many modellers. They will sell, and sell, and sell. Keep going, Dave! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 Don't be daft John, we make model signals, these are straight from "Toy Land", they look nothing like the real thing. Mick. Happy to stay in toy land then. This comment reminds me why there's a large sector of this hobby that makes me want to take up pot holing. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Hi, This really is question for 'Dapol Dave' and it is a follow-on* to the query concerning SR signals - as you state, you are considering how to replicate this style of post, however do you have a target for the release of the Southern signals? Your response would, at least, be a comfort to the modellers of Southern outline who anxiously await confirmation that their interests will be satisfied. Thank you Tim *I did send a PM, as you suggested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Indge Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Don't be daft John, we make model signals, these are straight from "Toy Land", they look nothing like the real thing. Mick. There's always one who is never satisfied, isn't there! I am not able with my sausage fingers/eyesight and skill that could make anything like these products from Dapol and as far as I am concerned these signals will do what I want them to. Micknich should remember that everyone's layout is a matter of some sort of compromise. Dapol have done something that the vast majority of modellers have been asking for, for many years - good luck to them! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) There are those for whome signals mean something more than a stick in the ground with an arm on top. michnick2003 simply showed there is a wider world out there. Producing electrically worked semaphore signal for £25.00 is quite an achievement and if using them as a basis for further detailing is possible then great! Edited June 22, 2012 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) There are those for whome signals mean something more than a stick in the ground with an arm on top. michnick2003 simply showed there is a wider world out there. Producing electrically worked semaphore signal for £25.00 is quite an achievement and if using them as a basis for further detailing is possible then great! I think most of us were well aware that there's a difference between what can reasonably be expected from an inexpensive, easily installed RTR product and a handbuilt example made by an expert modeller; we didn't need it rubbed in our faces with nonsense about "toy land". By the way, I've admired Michnich's signalling models on many an occasion. Edited June 22, 2012 by Barry Ten 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 There are those for whome signals mean something more than a stick in the ground with an arm on top. michnick2003 simply showed there is a wider world out there. Producing electrically worked semaphore signal for £25.00 is quite an achievement and if using them as a basis for further detailing is possible then great! If the arm isn't quite fine enough, I'm sure there'll be a way of replacing it with an etched brass one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) There are those for whome signals mean something more than a stick in the ground with an arm on top. michnick2003 simply showed there is a wider world out there. Producing electrically worked semaphore signal for £25.00 is quite an achievement and if using them as a basis for further detailing is possible then great! Exactly so - it really is impossible to compare apples with pears (except in preference for taste) and that is what is going on here. I've looked at one of these signals fairly carefully and posted my views elsewhere in this thread and I won't repeat them - Posts 245, 261, and 265 contain my main points so far and I'll quote a couple of bits from them below - "We must not overlook the basic fact that these are mass-produced signals offered at a reasonable price and and requiring very little work to install them on a layout and get them operational - and for that Dapol are to be commended. .... but - testing etc still awaited - I reckon they're a pretty good answer to many a modeller's prayers and wishlist entries. I await the tubular steel post version with great interest because it is the real test of getting the overall proportions right." "Overall of course as an RTP signal it's in the same sort of modelling league as an RTR loco and a spot of detailing work apart it would benefit from some subtle dirtying .. " I think that says most of it - they're not in the same league as signals from the expert makers and at the price we could hardly expect them to be. I'm sure the hobby has not only room for both but home for the various shades of skill, cost and realism that are offered additionally by Ratio and MSE kits. We live in a broad church. PS Thanks to the kindness of MickNich I now have to hand some material which will hopefully correct the most obvious shortcoming of these signals as supplied - could be very helpful as I suspect my eyes and hands might not be quite as steady fore painting signal arms as they were 40 years ago, I only hope I can cut straight with a scalpel Edited June 22, 2012 by The Stationmaster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Hi Tim, I'm not being evasive here honestly, but I am working on both "ladder" (rail) and lattice type at the moment. These are more complex to produce than standard post signals and I am working out ways of manufacturing whilst keeping the price down. The ladder for instance cannot be a single mould as the lack of internal rail profile would be glaring. So I'm looking at a 3 piece item with a ladder that glues into 2 rails and thus keeps the 'look' of the signal. The lattice is altogether a different beastie involving 4 parts and construction to make it viable. So bear with me, I havnt got a release date yet as we will probably only announce the date when I have them on a ship in transit (just playing safe). Hope you understand. Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 Cheers, Dave - another custome for SR signals here (although I've got one of the GWR examples for Paynestown's starter). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Don't be daft John, we make model signals, these are straight from "Toy Land", they look nothing like the real thing. Mick. Mick and Jon, The signals which you guys make are the result of years of practice, researching the prototypes, refining building techniques, identifying and adapting suitable materials. I make signal models too, but would not expect the r-t-r trade to do what we do; that's why folk are prepared to pay the prices which are charged for hand built models and I've quoted (and agreed) a price with four digits of £'s in it for one particular model. Who but someone with quite a lot of money and a very specific requirement would do that; very, very few? Most model railway enthusiasts would not expect, nor would probably be able to pay those prices and even if they were, the relatively few 'professional' model signal builders couldn't produce enough to satisfy the demand. I'm not going to comment on these Dapol models, it wouldn't be right; it's simply not a fair comparison. All I will say is that if one of the r-t-r suppliers - Dapol - has recognised a gap in the market, then good on 'em and I wish them well. The acid test of these signals is whether people buy them and buy them in quantity, not whether a few very knowledgeable and highly skilled model builders (and I'll exlude myself on both counts from this) actually rate them alongside their own efforts. I remember once being taken to task, on here, for comments on one of the r-t-r suppliers locomotive models and, in retrospect, it was probably right that I was taken to task. Far from these Dapol products diminishing the demand for your hand built and exquisite models, surely anything which focuses interest on this aspect of railway operation - signalling - will, ultimately, lead to an increase in demand for your models, just as the availability of r-t-r locomotives has not killed off the professional loco builders, modifiers and weatherers (is that a real word - weatherers?). Cheers Mike Edited June 22, 2012 by mikemeg 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Hi Tim, I'm not being evasive here honestly, but I am working on both "ladder" (rail) and lattice type at the moment. These are more complex to produce than standard post signals and I am working out ways of manufacturing whilst keeping the price down. The ladder for instance cannot be a single mould as the lack of internal rail profile would be glaring. So I'm looking at a 3 piece item with a ladder that glues into 2 rails and thus keeps the 'look' of the signal. The lattice is altogether a different beastie involving 4 parts and construction to make it viable. So bear with me, I havnt got a release date yet as we will probably only announce the date when I have them on a ship in transit (just playing safe). Hope you understand. Cheers Dave Dave, I do understand and I appreciate your effort to respond, many thanks. The iconic rail-built signals will be greatly appreciated by all modellers of the Southern and its successor whilst their lattice work predecessors are equally desirable to modellers of both NE region and exLSWR. The recent Southern releases undoubtedly makes us impatient for items that were once only an aspiration. Thank you Tim Edited June 22, 2012 by Tim Hale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Thanks to Dave for the information that both rail-built and lattice SR signals are being worked on. My personal Padstow will be able to use both as up starter and down home. I currently use a none-working starter (unless I manually raise/lower the blade) made from the taller lattice mast of the Ratio LNER signal kit. Do I dare mention working ground signals.....oh and the working rodding to control both points and signals in round and square/rectangular forms.....I am thankful for what we are getting/soon to get now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted June 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2012 Don't be daft John, we make model signals, these are straight from "Toy Land", they look nothing like the real thing. Mick. This made me chuckle. Aren't we all just playing with trains? Some might be made of plastic for pennies, others carefully put together from brass and wire and with a price to match. But they're all toys! Cheers Ben A. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted June 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2012 For my money these working 4mm signals look great and are on that ever growing shopping list for the railway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Aren't we all just playing with trains? Seeing as you asked, some of us grew out of toys and started modelling railways seriously, but of course I have no wish to stand in the way of those who prefer to think of themselves as infantiles. There will always be those who aspire to higher levels both in school, work and in their chosen hobbies so please don't assume everyone on RMweb has followed the populist trend and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted June 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2012 Seeing as you asked, some of us grew out of toys and started modelling railways seriously, but of course I have no wish to stand in the way of those who prefer to think of themselves as infantiles. There will always be those who aspire to higher levels both in school, work and in their chosen hobbies so please don't assume everyone on RMweb has followed the populist trend and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Hello Coachmann, Yes, that's fair up to a point but I would still content that this hobby is, at heart, a play activity done for enjoyment. But I do question why those at the self-appointed "top end" of the hobby feel the need to denigrate those who have simpler tastes. Phrases like "toy-land" (and, I might add, "infantile", "dumbed down" and "lowest common denominator") strike me as unnecessarily sniffy and reflect poorly on those whose skills we admire! cheers Ben A. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moria Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Seeing as you asked, some of us grew out of toys and started modelling railways seriously, but of course I have no wish to stand in the way of those who prefer to think of themselves as infantiles. There will always be those who aspire to higher levels both in school, work and in their chosen hobbies so please don't assume everyone on RMweb has followed the populist trend and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Sometimes I am so glad I am just an infantile playing with trains at the lowest common denominator. I feel happier sitting there and knowing that I enjoy a hobby and have no self appointed desires to be better than others, even when we do admire what those people can produce. Regards to most Graham Edited June 23, 2012 by Moria 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2012 For my money these working 4mm signals look great and are on that ever growing shopping list for the railway! This post sums up my attitude, too, Neal. I may do a bit of detailing on them but for the moment I have plenty of other priorities to worry about and these signals are more than adequate. Well done Dapol. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Remembering the "fuss" about the Dapol "2-wire" activation system (on-up/ on-down), I have recently aquired an old Trix Twin electrically operated semaphore signal (with light). This uses the same "2-wire" activation system, but with a solonoid of some type. (The lighting has a seperate power feed.) Nothing new? On Rail-built signals. Doesn't the Ratio kit type use a cast metal post? Edited June 23, 2012 by Sarahagain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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