Black Country Blues

[Clearwater]

I had a PM from Clearwater of this parish in the week asking how the scenics were built up from or down into the boards. Took a trip down memory lane and these photos from nearly 6 years ago (doesn't time fly) hopefully show what was done.

Boards as built by Damian with the trackbed raised up from the lowest datum point.

post-6675-0-49133700-1344849444.jpg

The viaduct had wooden piers and a ply edge strip on which to add the scenic overlays.

post-1-0-22679100-1344538340.jpg

The scenic landforms were built up from the board datum by adding in sheets of Celotex or polystyrene to slightly higher than needed level and then lots of carving and cutting to get the required contours. The big long hole is for a canal lock.

post-6675-0-18522700-1344985148.jpg

So it looked like this before disappearing in green stuff...

post-1-0-34056700-1345738514.jpg

The Celotex/polystyrene was covered in a layer of Wickes lightweight filler and scrim mesh before being painted a delightful green to seal it off.

post-6675-0-25032800-1346527899.jpg

Lots more photos in the June-August 2012 date range in this thread.

(the garage is nowhere near as tidy or empty these days and I'd struggle fitting in any boards!)

Thanks Chris - much appreciated. It's really fascinating to look back and see how the natural flow of the layout was created. I'm sure I'm not alone in finding one of the hardest things to conceptualise and achieve is how to move from a flat board "train set" to a contoured layout without it all being too right angled and angular. I find this thread, and LNER4479's Shap one, invaluable for thinking how I want to go about what I want to achieve. I'm very much in the extremely early planning stage. WHat's also clear, and from a comment below, that the natural desire to rush off and get track laid is something which should be resisted and the more time/care spent in planning / building mock-ups the better the eventual outcome.

 

David

[Stubby47]

Will you keep BCB in the same era? Or are there any plans to use a later time frame?

 

( Do you need more posters for the bill boards?)

[2ManySpams]

I’ve looked very closely at these pics of the ‘working party’.

I don’t think anybodys fooled, especially with empty pint glasses clearly in view...

Perhaps I should have described it as a talking, eating, drinking and taking the pi55 out of John party?

[ELTEL]

Well done Damian, I also feel a move to a roundy roundy is the way fiorward.

 

I also would be willing to help at the occasional exhibition in the future.

 

Good luck.

 

Eltel (Terry)

[Indomitable026]

Well done Damian, I also feel a move to a roundy roundy is the way fiorward.

I also would be willing to help at the occasional exhibition in the future.

Good luck.

Eltel (Terry)

Thanks Tel,

 

Perhaps we need to bring it to that show of yours at some point...

[2ManySpams]

Thanks Chris - much appreciated. It's really fascinating to look back and see how the natural flow of the layout was created. I'm sure I'm not alone in finding one of the hardest things to conceptualise and achieve is how to move from a flat board "train set" to a contoured layout without it all being too right angled and angular. I find this thread, and LNER4479's Shap one, invaluable for thinking how I want to go about what I want to achieve. I'm very much in the extremely early planning stage. WHat's also clear, and from a comment below, that the natural desire to rush off and get track laid is something which should be resisted and the more time/care spent in planning / building mock-ups the better the eventual outcome.

David

IMO the main starting point should be having a good idea what the landform looked like before any man made items were imposed on it. Then think about the order the man made items appeared and what structures, embankments and cuttings might be needed. There's also the need to think about how subsequent man made items change or add to what items preceded them. The real world is full of overlapping, layered development that can sometimes look awkward or bitty but it all adds to the realism.

 

Somewhere in this thread there's a sequence of plans showing how we considered the 'history' of the area affected the landscape. I'll see if I can find the post. It was also covered in one of the BRM BCB articles from 2012/13.

[2ManySpams]

Here's the potted history text... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56607-black-country-blues/?view=findpost&p=757638

 

I thought I'd done some plans too or was that just in the mag?

[Indomitable026]

Will you keep BCB in the same era? Or are there any plans to use a later time frame?

( Do you need more posters for the bill boards?)

The beauty of this layout being a secondary backwater is that it will have had very little investment in infrastructure over the years. This means that it could probably be run almost modern day right back to steam days.

 

It won’t be modern day, but let’s see what transpires. My initial priority will be to get it fully functional and reliable in its new format.

 

Thanks for the offer on the bill boards I’ll keep you posted.

[Clearwater]

Where I werk, and have werked for 33 years!, there was a tradition amongst foundry men, of drinking beer on the job. Being the youngest in the foundry it was my job every morning, and just before dinner time, to go to the pub and fetch the ale allowance. I had a few hundred yards to walk with a sack trolley, and if the pub landlord was in a good mood, he would give me a half.

The beer would be paid for on account, and once back at the foundry, the leading hand (head furnace man) would distribute the ale.

The foundry is still going, but times have changed, no beer now, but the pub also lives on, as the Bottle and Glass in the Black Country museum.

 

Gary

One of my earlier memories is being taken by my primary school (early to mid 80s) to our local glass factory (Stuart Crystal I think.). The glass blowers there used to cool their mouths with swigs of Banks's from the 2l bottles you were then able to buy.

[Mark Saunders]

One of my earlier memories is being taken by my primary school (early to mid 80s) to our local glass factory (Stuart Crystal I think.). The glass blowers there used to cool their mouths with swigs of Banks's from the 2l bottles you were then able to buy.

I was visiting the Steelworks at Brymbo and it was explained to me that drinking water caused blistering but beer didn’t for those charging the furnaces!

 

Mark Saunders

[TheSignalEngineer]

The beauty of this layout being a secondary backwater is that it will have had very little investment in infrastructure over the years. This means that it could probably be run almost modern day right back to steam days.

 

It won’t be modern day, but let’s see what transpires. My initial priority will be to get it fully functional and reliable in its new format.

 

Thanks for the offer on the bill boards I’ll keep you posted.

To me the infrastructure has the air of late steam to early diesel in an area where corporate image never quite caught up. Charlie's Cabin at Curzon Street which was the inspiration for the little hut at the end of the sidings had Class 86 locos hauling Mk2 stock past it and blue FYE diesels arriving on the Bescot trip whilst still wearing 1950s paint.

[Indomitable026]

To me the infrastructure has the air of late steam to early diesel in an area where corporate image never quite caught up. Charlie's Cabin at Curzon Street which was the inspiration for the little hut at the end of the sidings had Class 86 locos hauling Mk2 stock past it and blue FYE diesels arriving on the Bescot trip whilst still wearing 1950s paint.

In all likelyhood i’ll be sticking with the blue era it’s always run with.

 

Interesting you say about the electric loco as it’s been mentioned on more than one occasion about having an early electric with a long rake of Mk1s on a drag.

 

By chance I’ve got a dozen blue/grey mk1s somewhere...

[Siberian Snooper]

This layout deserves to be shown in the South West of England, so that I can visit it without having to pack supplies for a major expedition to the Uncharted Lands North of Tiverton.

 

That's because it's one of the best layouts I have ever seen and because I like it a lot.

 

So there.

I have seen the train set a couple of times, when I have ventured to the far off places East of Lee Mill.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Interesting you say about the electric loco as it’s been mentioned on more than one occasion about having an early electric with a long rake of Mk1s on a drag.

 

I rode on several drags over the Cannock line when travelling to Crewe in the early days of the electrics. Due to the engineering works patterns in those days it used to happen for about two 8-week periods in a year. Prior to electrification there were some Sunday trains booked between New St and Walsall via Tipton, Princes End and Wednesbury. It even happened with 34079 on a 'CrankEx' in 1964 but no doubt you will be able to prevent 'Spams' from trying that now.

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer

[Indomitable026]

I’ve had a bit of unexpected time off today, so I’ve been wondering around with a tape measure and looking through my DitD thread as I gather my thoughts on what the propose fiddleyards look like.

 

My current thinking are three roads in each direction. Looking back through what I built for DitD the yards were nominally just that, albeit confirgured differently and they were dead end. The point I’m trying to get to is that those boards were 20 inches wide and comfortatbly held the 6 tracks.

 

 

 

 

In fact I may be able squeeze it down to 18 inches, that would mean I could use some sheets of ply I already have.

[Indomitable026]

I rode on several drags over the Cannock line when travelling to Crewe in the early days of the electrics. Due to the engineering works patterns in those days it used to happen for about two 8-week periods in a year. Prior to electrification there were some Sunday trains booked between New St and Walsall via Tipton, Princes End and Wednesbury. It even happened with 34079 on a 'CrankEx' in 1964 but no doubt you will be able to prevent 'Spams' from trying that now.

 

 

By chance I’ve got a dozen blue/grey mk1s somewhere...

 

Believe me if Young Spams desires such a thing, there will be no stopping it occur.

 

Resistance is futile - honestly...

[Stubby47]

I’ve had a bit of unexpected time off today, so I’ve been wondering around with a tape measure and looking through my DitD thread as I gather my thoughts on what the propose fiddleyards look like.

 

My current thinking are three roads in each direction. Looking back through what I built for DitD the yards were nominally just that, albeit confirgured differently and they were dead end. The point I’m trying to get to is that those boards were 20 inches wide and comfortatbly held the 6 tracks.

 

D510E692-58BB-4CB5-872F-184F44435B26.jpeg

 

C73374BB-A249-492C-8371-875A41264CDE.jpeg

 

64F9C005-59EC-4C5D-8847-548D97602D61.jpeg

 

In fact I may be able squeeze it down to 18 inches, that would mean I could use some sheets of ply I already have.

 

 

Given the length of BCB, could you align the up/down FYs end to end, rather than side by side?

 

EG -  the UP train leaves the scenic section, turns 180 deg, passes the Down FY, then enters a spare track in the UP FY.  Then are then nearer to the exit for their next run.  You'd not need boards that are that wide then.

[Indomitable026]

Given the length of BCB, could you align the up/down FYs end to end, rather than side by side?

 

EG -  the UP train leaves the scenic section, turns 180 deg, passes the Down FY, then enters a spare track in the UP FY.  Then are then nearer to the exit for their next run.  You'd not need boards that are that wide then.

I’m not sure what you mean, you might have to draw that for me.

[Worsdell forever]

I’m not sure what you mean, you might have to draw that for me.

I was thinking the same.

 

 

Either great minds think alike or fools rarely differ...

[Indomitable026]

I was thinking the same.

20180611_151246.jpg

 

Either great minds think alike or fools rarely differ...

Ah, I see.

 

But I was looking for the length so I could have multiple trains in each road.

[Stubby47]

Paul has drawn what I thought ( except I had it the other way, so the exit from the loops is nearer going on-scene - this would reduce the time between selecting a train and it appearing).  Unless you want 30ft trains, you should still get two trains per loop  ( I seem to remember the trains were only about a 1/4 of the layout length ? ).

[Worsdell forever]

Paul has drawn what I thought ( except I had it the other way, so the exit from the loops is nearer going on-scene - this would reduce the time between selecting a train and it appearing).  Unless you want 30ft trains, you should still get two trains per loop  ( I seem to remember the trains were only about a 1/4 of the layout length ? ).

 

I think one of the reasons for the roundy roundy was to increase the train length, especially the bogie tankers.

[Stubby47]

Ah, ok. But even with double length trains, especially if you use some of the curves for the points ladder, you should still be able to stagger the FYs. 

 

The FY lines can be closer too, if you're not having to remove / replace locos & contend with AJs..., so you might get more across the board.

[Indomitable026]

Ah, ok. But even with double length trains, especially if you use some of the curves for the points ladder, you should still be able to stagger the FYs. 

 

The FY lines can be closer too, if you're not having to remove / replace locos & contend with AJs..., so you might get more across the board.

I’m happy with the track spacing, you need to be able to get your hands around the stock to put it on or off and to deal with derailments.

[Andrew P]

Given the length of BCB, could you align the up/down FYs end to end, rather than side by side?

 

EG -  the UP train leaves the scenic section, turns 180 deg, passes the Down FY, then enters a spare track in the UP FY.  Then are then nearer to the exit for their next run.  You'd not need boards that are that wide then.

 

 

I was thinking the same.

 

20180611_151246.jpg

 

Either great minds think alike or fools rarely differ...

 

 

Paul has drawn what I thought ( except I had it the other way, so the exit from the loops is nearer going on-scene - this would reduce the time between selecting a train and it appearing).  Unless you want 30ft trains, you should still get two trains per loop  ( I seem to remember the trains were only about a 1/4 of the layout length ? ).

Damian, would it be possible to make a Fiddle Yard that would do for both BCB and DitD? I think there both EM aren't they? If I'm wrong then shout at me.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Andrew P