Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[jjb1970]

I wouldn't expect any retailer to sell product at a loss. Equally however if a supplier advertises a guaranteed pre-order price which is presented as a way to beat known price rises then I would expect them to honour that price at least with respect to any price rises which were known at the point of making the offer. Where there have been subsequent further price rises it is a more complex matter however you have to ask the question that when all the manufacturers are being pretty open about price inflation why are dealers still offering pre-order discounted prices when it is highly uncertain what the SRP will be. So I also understand how some of this has upset customers.

[Robin Brasher]

I have found out some more information about the pre-order saga that may be of interest to members.

 

Hattons have details of their pricing policy on forthcoming releases on the E-Hattons web site. "Pre-order prices are calculated using the supplier's Recommended Retail Price (RRP). If suppliers increase the RRP we may proportionately increase our seller's price. In these instances we will contact you first and ask if you would like to maintain the order."

 

In the case of the Southern E4 and a number of other items I had ordered the pre-order price had already taken a 20% price increase in the RRP into account. On 12 December Hattons increased the price of this item on my account from £76.46 to £84.96. I queried this and the reply was "Apologies for any confusion ... but your pre-order is due to be charged at £76.46."

 

When the model became available Hattons simply sent an email saying that my order had been processed at a price of £97.46 including £4 postage and Hattons did not contact me first to ask if I would like to maintain the order. 

 

I cancelled the order for this locomotive but I have kept the order for the other items I made on the pre-order and sent copies of the correspondence to my credit card company.

 

Members may wish to take this into account when making pre-orders with Hattons

[Richard Lee]

I had a similar experience, except that I have not raised the matter with Hattons.  The price was £76.46 when I pre-ordered in April 2014.  The next email that I had from them regarding this order was on 30th March 2015 to notify me that the order had been processed, and that the price of the E4 was £93.46.  I am expecting delivery in the next couple of days.  (Easter is next week here.)

 

Don't get me wrong, I still want the E4 at that price.  However, I am not pleased with Hattons.  If the cost had been increased more than I had been prepared to pay then I would be making a fuss about their conduct.  If they couldn't sell it at the price they advertised then they should at least let me know so that I can decide whether or not to continue with the order.

 

There doesn't seem to be a lot of benefit in pre-ordering from them.  I could have ordered it at the same price from most of the model shops that I have book-marked the links for.  I could also have ordered a few more items to so that the overseas postage was diluted over several things.

[Robin Brasher]

I agree with Richard Lee's post above. The Southern E4 is still good value for money at £93.46. It has sold out at this price for members at my local Swanage Station shop which proves this. It runs very well and will easily haul 6 Hornby coaches.

 

My Southern E4 was part of a larger order which included a LBSCR E4 for £76.46, a BR green PMV or £16.11 and a blue Graham Farish Merchant Navy for £127.46 which are now showing on my account at £93.46, £24.61 and £135.96 respectively.

 

It will be interesting to see whether the credit card company forces Hattons to honour its agreement. If it does not and I cannot get the models for less elsewhere I will probably buy the LBSCR E4 and the Merchant Navy from Hattons and cancel the order for the PMV.

 

There is a huge increase from the price of £16.11 that I agreed to pay for the PMV to the price of £24.61 showing on my account that does not include postage or any future increases in the recommended retail price. I am not very good at crystal ball gazing but I expect that this model will not sell well at this price and in a year's time it will end up as a bargain with Hattons and many other shops.

[caradoc]

I agree absolutely that Hattons should not be advertising a guaranteed pre-order price and then increasing that price.....It kind of misses the point of what the word 'guaranteed' means ! However I'm not sure how a pre-order can be deemed to be a binding contract to supply at that price, as no money has changed hands at that time.

[Robin Brasher]

I think that the legal position is the same as booking a hotel room six months in advance for an agreed price of £76.46 payable when I arrive at the hotel and then finding that my credit card has been debited by £97.46.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Robin Brasher

[Free At Last]

In reply to a Facebook question on the price increase on the pre-ordered Porthole coach Hattons' reply was

 

 "I'm very sorry but we had no choice but to increase the price as per RRP trading terms with Bachmann. We endeavour to absorb any price increases where we can but in this case it was just not possible. The items are still at the best possible price that they can be but we apologise for the inconvenience caused by this."

[sub39h]

Doesn't sound like good news for the Mk2Fs then. The guiaranteed pre order price is £25.46, but new Mk2As are closer to the £40 mark which is probably indicative of the actual price once they come to market. I've had quite a few on order for a couple of years now but both out of principle and because of the cost I won't be buying any if the price is going to be increased by 60% after I placed an order at a guaranteed order price. 

 

I understand Hattons have to make money and I wouldn't expect them to sell items at a loss or jeopardise their contract with one of their biggest suppliers. It's Bachmann's new trading terms and frankly ridiculous rolling stock prices that I don't agree with. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by sub39h

[darren01]

The items are still at the best possible price that they can be ,Hum i don't think so,as i have seen other shops selling the E4 for a bit less.

[Robin Brasher]

E4. Hattons' price £97.46 including £4 postage. Rails £93.46 post free. Swanage Station shop with members' discount £93.46 with no postage as I live ten minutes walk away.

[reevesthecat]

I think it may be fair to point out this has so far only affected Bachmann items and so far my Hornby items have been kept at their pre-order price. Is it not true this is related to Bachmanns policy of not allowing a discount of more than a certain percentage. I am affected by these price rises and am pi**ed off I ordered following the email that promised to beat the price rises but they went up anyway but here we are. I retain the option to cancel my purchases if I wish I suggest if others are unhappy they do the same but can we stop going on and on and on about it!! Complain to Hattons!

Mark

[Kris]

I retain the option to cancel my purchases if I wish I suggest if others are unhappy they do the same but can we stop going on and on and on about it!! Complain to Hattons!

Mark

 

I did, they don't care.

[DropTheTap]

 I retain the option to cancel my purchases if I wish I suggest if others are unhappy they do the same but can we stop going on and on and on about it!! Complain to Hattons!

 

I thought that's what this thread was for...

[Bernard Lamb]

The items are still at the best possible price that they can be ,Hum i don't think so,as i have seen other shops selling the E4 for a bit less.

The prices are probably as low as Hattons can make them.

However now that they are forced to employ extra staff to deal with the moaners costs will have to rise. 

I thought we had dealt with negativity in another thread, seems not.

Bernard

[Robin Brasher]

Hattons have maintained the pre-order price of £101.90 on each of the Hornby Drummond 700s I have ordered. It looks like demand is likely to be heavy for these with Kernow and Gaugemaster charging the full retail price of £109.99.

 

TTC Diecast are offering a price of £99.99 for pre-orders. The Swanage Station shop offers a 10% discount for members and Platform Models in Poole normally offers a 10% discount so they are likely to be cheaper than Hattons. Buying from a local model railway shop also saves on £4 postage.

 

It is worth shopping around.

[Robin Brasher]

I am sorry that the posts are negative. Taking postage into account Hattons cannot raise their prices of items like the Hornby 700 much before they exceed the recommended retail price. They won't need to employ additional staff if they lose their previous customers who can obtain the items more cheaply from their local model shops.

[Richard Lee]

The prices are probably as low as Hattons can make them.

However now that they are forced to employ extra staff to deal with the moaners costs will have to rise. 

I thought we had dealt with negativity in another thread, seems not.

Bernard

To put my comments in context, the situation as far as I am concerned is not "I will never use them again" but rather "Not so sure that their pre-order facilities are always a good idea for me".  I also think that they could have managed things a bit better, for instance, by being clearer about the fact that the price might change. 

 

Living outside the UK I find that I use Hattons more than any non-Internet oriented model shop.  (I do try to visit at least one model shop whenever I visit the UK.)  The nearest model shop to where I live that I know of is about 3 hours drive away, and if it does do trains they will not be British outline.

 

On the whole, Hattons has given me good service, reasonable prices, good range without charging a lot for postage.

[Budgie]

I took the advice that has been given on here and went to my local model shop, rather than ordering from Hattons. I was extremely pleased to notice that what I bought cost a bit less than it would have done if I had bought from Hattons, and I got it immediately rather than having to wait for it to be delivered by Yodel.

 

Sidcup 1, Liverpool 0.

[Georgeconna]

Good for the Local Models shop them The paying field is level for a change. They may be able to hang around a bit long. Got my E4 yesterday €124.00. Not bad at all.!!

[Robin Brasher]

I have just bought an Oxford Diecast 0 gauge Ivo Peter's Bentley from Hattons. This was not a preorder but a notification of a delivery.

 

I live in Swanage and my nearest model shop is in Poole. Last time I went there they had the Austin 7s I wanted but could not sell them to me because they had not priced them yet. The model looks like it is selling fast as Hattons have only nine left so rather than risk a wasted journey to Poole and then find that Hattons and everyone else had sold out I bought it from Hattons who know the price and the postage is only two pounds.

 

For people waiting for the Oxfordrail Adams Radial there are delays at Oxford Diecast as the Bentley was due in the last quarter of 2014 but has only just arrived.

 

I don't know if Ivo Peters' Bentley ever made it to the Swanage Railway but when I get it I will be able to show you what it would have looked like if he did.

 

I think Hattons' notification and efficient postage service are where it scores.

[Dunsignalling]

I have just bought an Oxford Diecast 0 gauge Ivo Peter's Bentley from Hattons. This was not a preorder but a notification of a delivery.

 

I live in Swanage and my nearest model shop is in Poole. Last time I went there they had the Austin 7s I wanted but could not sell them to me because they had not priced them yet. The model looks like it is selling fast as Hattons have only nine left so rather than risk a wasted journey to Poole and then find that Hattons and everyone else had sold out I bought it from Hattons who know the price and the postage is only two pounds.

 

For people waiting for the Oxfordrail Adams Radial there are delays at Oxford Diecast as the Bentley was due in the last quarter of 2014 but has only just arrived.

 

I don't know if Ivo Peters' Bentley ever made it to the Swanage Railway but when I get it I will be able to show you what it would have looked like if he did.

 

I think Hattons' notification and efficient postage service are where it scores.

8 left when I looked, but I quickly reduced it to 7.

 

Oxford's release dates for cars etc. always have been prone to wander about a bit (though nothing like as badly as some other suppliers!) and sometimes things arrive a month or two earlier than expected. It will be interesting to see if the same occurs with their railway models when they start coming through.

 

I also use Hatton's notification service but rarely pre-order to avoid the risk of multiple items being despatched individually.  

 

John

Edited April 7, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Robin Brasher]

Hattons have launched a project update list showing how far manufacturers have progressed with their models. I thought Hornby had progressed beyond simply announcing the class 700 in December 2013.

[darren01]

Just been looking and the have the 700 due in march?, Also they are still showing the Brighton Atlantic at £89.00 can not see how this will come out at that price.

Mind you did find this bargain on there site 37-716

Triple Pk 8 Ton Cattle Wagon BR Bauxite Weathered
OO Gauge (1:76 Scale)
Pre-order price: £15

 

And this one has me scratching my head? 38-400A

SR 25 Ton Pill Box Brake Van SR Brown
OO Gauge (1:76 Scale)
Pre-order price: £14.15

 

The thing is the Pill box was £24.95 a few month ago, so how can it have dropped down to this price!

Edited April 8, 2015 by darren01

[Legend]

I feel sorry for Hattons in a way getting all this negative publicity. I've never had anything but outstanding service from them , whether its Airfix, Die Cast or Trains . However I think their price promise has been ill thought out, and perhaps an email or a paragraph in their news letters might at least explain why they've had to take this action.

 

Of course we don't know what contractural terms they have with suppliers. However they did honour their price on my Bachmann Porthole coaches, even though the retail price had gone up considerably. But possibly Hattons had ordered at old price from Bachmann and Bachmann honoured it (don't know?) . Could it also be that Bachmann withdrew from sale the missing brake 3rd (is that the one?) and are only now releasing it at higher price , which would explain why the price can't be honoured on that one. I don't know but seems plausible.

 

I think the price promise started when increases were 3-5% per annum. Its conceivable that they could safely have absorbed such increases in their retailers margin. However , as we now know Bachmann from July 2014 have had 2 increases of 15-20%(a lot more in some cases). At the same time Hornby have increased their prices to trade and reduced retailers margins. You cannot absorb that level of increase from Bachmann or small increases from Hornby on the now smaller retail margin. The result will be selling models lower than cost and inevitably the retailer going bust. We really do not want that, it would certainly not be good for the hobby or the staff and owners of Hattons!

 

They really need to issue a statement to clarify things and stop this price promise thing, if they haven't already done so. The LB&SCR Atlantic from Bachmann is a case in point. There is no way on earth this is going to arrive at that price(we cant even predict when it will arrive, probably another 2 15%pa increases away!). I can see it being double price quoted!

 

It is a shame that because of this price promise its Hattons getting all the agro, while the manufacturers who are whacking massive increases through (where else have you seen 15-20% twice in the year 2014/2015) or changing terms (lower retail margin)seem relatively unscathed.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Legend

[Robin Brasher]

The problem with the pre-order saga is that Hattons gave their price promise after Bachmann had announced its price increase of an average of 20%. In my case I queried a price of about £86 on my account around December for a pre-order for the E4 and Hattons told me to ignore it as I would be charged £76.46. When they processed my order they charged me £97.46.

 

My account now shows a price of £24.61 for a Bachmann BR green PMV that I had pre-ordered with Hattons' price promise of £16.11. This represents a large increase.