Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

I plead "guilty as charged" in connection with the tension lock couplings on the low sided wagons by the crane in the loading dock. I can however adopt smug, tea-drinking mode in connection with the lamps on Robert the Devil and the varying ride heights / angles of the coaches, since I believe that responsibility for neither matter rests with me. They may be my lamps on the Pacific, but I don't think 4479 had come out of its box when I was fitting lamps yesterday, so I suggest somebody else probably fitted those - they may even have been on the loco since Grantham's last shows in February or March of this year, variously disturbed by handling since then. Not one of those coaches in the Leeds train is mine, so I'm squeaky clean of guilt in that regard  .

[Bucoops]

You mean me?

 

If so, yes. 

 

I think for the running weekend, I'll operate the fiddle yard. One poor soul got completely bamboozled yesterday! 

 

Just think how easy it would be if you went DCC 

[Allegheny1600]

 

Trains running 02 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg

 

Hi Tony, All,

That picture is Fan-bloomin-tastic!

Like many others, I look forward to more of the same and I must say "Thanks" for back-dating your layout.

Wonderful stuff.

Cheers,

John.

[LNER4479]

Further to Tony's post above, here is the information for that Leeds train, together with a few other bits n pieces from the last 24 hours
 

First of all, a drone-like view of mine (not possible in 1938!) shows the train in a wider perspective. This is train 324 (down), which departed King's Cross at 10.15am in summer 1937 and 10.10am in summer 1938, following in the wake of the Flying Scotsman and 'Junior Scotsman' and destined for Leeds ... and other destinations in the Ridings, as will become clear.
 

This is the front of the train and dates it as 1937 as the first vehicle behind the loco is the avant garde cinema coach, a typical publicity-driven feature of the LNER in this era. This vehicles is not shown in the 1938 formation, hence 1937. Despite it being completely enclosed as built, Roy Mears assures us all that it comes complete with projector and raked seats, cinema style! Behind this vehicle, we then have a classic three coach through portion, formed up as Brake Third - All Third (corridor) - Brake Composite. Such formation provides a proportionally small amount of first class accommodation and is otherwise a complete train - it is destined for Harrogate but is shown to reverse at Leeds (Central), which must mean that the main formation behind it was shunted out of the way first at Leeds before continuing its journey; either that, or it was detached at Wakefield and went ahead of the main train. The diagram book does not say.
 

Here is the main 'core' formation of the train and is of course made up of the famous - and unique - ex-GNR Quintuplet dining set. The first class end is marshalled at the buffer stop end from King's Cross - note the one less window; larger bays of the first diner compared to the third diner.
 

The final third of the train is equally as interesting (well, I think so!). Immediate behind the Quint is another 3-coach through portion, this time for Bradford. It is not the same as the Harrogate portion however, as this is formed up as Brake First - All Third (corridor) - Brake Third, ie a greater proportion of first class accommodation. Note how the Brake First is marshalled next to the dining set, giving the least distance necessary for the toffs of Bradford to walk through for their (early) lunch. This is all indicative of Bradford being regarded as a more important destination to the LNER than Harrogate (not quite the same story today, perhaps?!), a legacy of the wealth from the woollen trade. This portion would have been detached at Wakefield and the brake van immediately behind is also for Bradford, making a four coach train for onward transit.
By comparison, the last two coaches in the train are a comparatively mundane two coach portion for Hull (detached at Doncaster); both are brakes however - Compo and All Third so, again, a smattering of first class seating available.
 
We don't have the space to run such a large train on Grantham so it was a delight to put this together this morning. The formation is 100% as per the 1937 diagram book for a mid-week (Tues-Thurs) service in terms of type of vehicle, although I can't guarantee that every last vehicle is the correct diagram number. Other than the cinema coach, this is all Jonathan's work. Great also to see Grantham's 'pet' A1 No.4479 'Robert the Devil' equal to the task.
 

A few other pix of mine, although it's scarcely worth bothering, seeing as how the master lensman will be able to capture much better images. These are really so as I can capture the replacement signals in position. Here, the 'drone' has hovered over the station pointing south. No trains (apart from the solitary horse box) but what a lovely, homogeneous railway scene.
 

Looking the other way as the northbound Silver Jubilee hoves into view. This is based on a photo Tony has and I think he might try getting a better version of it himself over the next week or so.
 

Down at the platform ends, we see a full-fitted express goods rattling down the bank. Very much the preserve of the K3s trains like this in the 1930's - the V2s were only just starting to appear in squadron numbers as the war broke out.
 
And finally, to prove that we just didn't plonk all this in front of the camera, here are two mediocre video clips, nevertheless showing this goods train and the Leeds express in motion.
 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by LNER4479

[Mallard60022]

Wonderful stuff. May that Quint KC have been attached slightly incorrectly at one end? I know that if it was a Comet set then the Comet connectors need to be set in a particular order otherwise one end of the KC or one of the Diners can look 'high'; how do I know this?

I think this whole project has brought a big helping of historic atmosphere to LB; thank you all.

Phil

 

Edit to enter Quint(uplet) as advised.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Headstock]

Further to Tony's post above, here is the information for that Leeds train, together with a few other bits n pieces from the last 24 hours

 

DSC03497.JPG

First of all, a drone-like view of mine (not possible in 1938!) shows the train in a wider perspective. This is train 324 (down), which departed King's Cross at 10.15am in summer 1937 and 10.10am in summer 1938, following in the wake of the Flying Scotsman and 'Junior Scotsman' and destined for Leeds ... and other destinations in the Ridings, as will become clear.

 

Leeds train 1.jpg

This is the front of the train and dates it as 1937 as the first vehicle behind the loco is the avant garde cinema coach, a typical publicity-driven feature of the LNER in this era. This vehicles is not shown in the 1938 formation, hence 1937. Despite it being completely enclosed as built, Roy Mears assures us all that it comes complete with projector and raked seats, cinema style! Behind this vehicle, we then have a classic three coach through portion, formed up as Brake Third - All Third (corridor) - Brake Composite. Such formation provides a proportionally small amount of first class accommodation and is otherwise a complete train - it is destined for Harrogate but is shown to reverse at Leeds (Central), which must mean that the main formation behind it was shunted out of the way first at Leeds before continuing its journey; either that, or it was detached at Wakefield and went ahead of the main train. The diagram book does not say.

 

Leeds train 2.jpg

Here is the main 'core' formation of the train and is of course made up of the famous - and unique - ex-GNR Quintuplet dining set. The first class end is marshalled at the buffer stop end from King's Cross - note the one less window; larger bays of the first diner compared to the third diner.

 

Leeds train 3.jpg

The final third of the train is equally as interesting (well, I think so!). Immediate behind the Quint is another 3-coach through portion, this time for Bradford. It is not the same as the Harrogate portion however, as this is formed up as Brake First - All Third (corridor) - Brake Third, ie a greater proportion of first class accommodation. Note how the Brake First is marshalled next to the dining set, giving the least distance necessary for the toffs of Bradford to walk through for their (early) lunch. This is all indicative of Bradford being regarded as a more important destination to the LNER than Harrogate (not quite the same story today, perhaps?!), a legacy of the wealth from the woollen trade. This portion would have been detached at Wakefield and the brake van immediately behind is also for Bradford, making a four coach train for onward transit.

By comparison, the last two coaches in the train are a comparatively mundane two coach portion for Hull (detached at Doncaster); both are brakes however - Compo and All Third so, again, a smattering of first class seating available.

 

We don't have the space to run such a large train on Grantham so it was a delight to put this together this morning. The formation is 100% as per the 1937 diagram book for a mid-week (Tues-Thurs) service in terms of type of vehicle, although I can't guarantee that every last vehicle is the correct diagram number. Other than the cinema coach, this is all Jonathan's work. Great also to see Grantham's 'pet' A1 No.4479 'Robert the Devil' equal to the task.

 

DSC03499.JPG

A few other pix of mine, although it's scarcely worth bothering, seeing as how the master lensman will be able to capture much better images. These are really so as I can capture the replacement signals in position. Here, the 'drone' has hovered over the station pointing south. No trains (apart from the solitary horse box) but what a lovely, homogeneous railway scene.

 

DSC03505.JPG

Looking the other way as the northbound Silver Jubilee hoves into view. This is based on a photo Tony has and I think he might try getting a better version of it himself over the next week or so.

 

DSC03501.JPG

Down at the platform ends, we see a full-fitted express goods rattling down the bank. Very much the preserve of the K3s trains like this in the 1930's - the V2s were only just starting to appear in squadron numbers as the war broke out.

 

And finally, to prove that we just didn't plonk all this in front of the camera, here are two mediocre video clips, nevertheless showing this goods train and the Leeds express in motion.

 

 

 

They make a lovely purring noise when in motion.

[jwealleans]

I'll have a look at that Quint (note to Ducky - count the bogies) when I come back down. The tab holding the upper half of the presstud on MJT articulations can get bent in attaching/detaching and create the height mismatches. Very easily resolved.

 

I'm impressed with 17, although they are all tested (fairly) regularly for free running and oiled. I'll have to see what some of my pacifics will do when we reassemble.

 

I took a few pictures on Sunday as we set the scene a little:

 

 

View across the goods yard with a coal wagon which has come up from the merchant at Grantham. Something of interest in that barrel as well, it seems.

 

 

Closer view of the goods shed and that van has come all the way down from the North British - Ian Kirk, I think. The shunter has given that coupling a hell of a flick when he's detached it.

 

 

Looking slightly further left past the two empty cattle wagons, the shunter looks a bit puzzled as to what he's supposed to do with that van from which the local oiks have purloined the coupling.

 

That's a black mark for No. 2 son who was supposed to have been through all the stock checking for just that.

 

 

Down at the south end, an ex-NER G2 van and a David Geen tank wagon.

 

 

This would have more of a familiar look to those who took an interest, a Great Northern outside framed van.

 

 

From across the running lines, there's still no sign of that coupling (it's in a bag in my toolbox waiting to be assembled). I think this is the van which was dropped off Grantham at the last show and had to have fairly major reconstructive surgery.

 

 

A better view of the different roofs on the two allegedly identical LNER cattle vans and the other side of the goods shed. I don't know whether the Scammell is in period, but the road vehicles hadn't arrived at this point on Sunday morning.

 

 

Out photographer now recrosses the lines and looks up from the road somewhere towards Tony's house to some Engineers' vehicles in the Up refuge siding.

 

 

This is what he had in view - Lord Claud himself traversing the M & GN with what looks like quite an ordinary working for a celebrity locomotive.

 

 

Back across the lines and there's a CCT, LNER built from an NER diagram, in the Down refuge.

 

 

It was the O4 on a down coal which actually attracted his attention - we all know what locoholics photographers are.

 

 

Northward it trundled. Colwick still haven't got round to attaching the nameplates.

 

You can tell this was taken in Sir's absence - huge Kadee on the front and not a lamp in sight.

 

 

The coal having meandered out of sight, the last thing we see this evening is an Up stopping train slowing for its call at Little Bytham. Apart from the leading Gresleys, this could as easily be 1908 as 1938.

 

 

Finally a better look at the stock - Kirk Gresleys, then a Bill Bedford Howlden BC, Danny Pinnock CL (I think), D & S D. 183 BC, another Bill Bedford BT under the bridge and a D & S GN horsebox to complete.

[LNER4479]

I'm impressed with 17, although they are all tested (fairly) regularly for free running and oiled. I'll have to see what some of my pacifics will do when we reassemble.

 

 

Finally a better look at the stock - Kirk Gresleys, then a Bill Bedford Howlden BC, Danny Pinnock CL (I think), D & S D. 183 BC, another Bill Bedford BT under the bridge and a D & S GN horsebox to complete.

1) Only 15, I'm afraid - the coaching stock superintendent didn't bring enough TKs with him ...

 

2) Minor pedantry - the 6-wheel CL is a Bill Bedford etch.

 

As always, some 'different' pix from your lens

Edited July 30, 2018 by LNER4479

[micklner]

JW

 

Origin of the lovely Bogie Engineering Coach please. Shame about the huge couplings on that one !!

 

 

Scammels are post war I believe ?

Edited July 30, 2018 by micklner

[Manxcat]

Tony,

 

These are wonderful photos and videos of the LNER weekend preparations and really whet the appetite. Like many others here, I am looking forward to the main photos and videos. Thank you for sharing them.

 

If I may ask, how wide is your 20 road fiddle yard?

 

Archie

[jwealleans]

coaching stock superintendent didn't bring enough TKs with him ...

You mean you didn't look in enough boxes. There is at least one 12 wheel third there.

 

... and yes, I wasn't sure about the CL.

[Tony Wright]

They make a lovely purring noise when in motion.

Who needs DCC sound? Or DCC of any kind!

[teaky]

JW

 

Origin of the lovely Bogie Engineering Coach please. Shame about the huge couplings on that one !!

 

 

Scammels are post war I believe ?

You're probably thinking of the Scammel Scarab, Mick.  The Scammel Mechanical Horse dates from the 1930s, so Jonathan's photo is OK.

[Tony Wright]

I plead "guilty as charged" in connection with the tension lock couplings on the low sided wagons by the crane in the loading dock. I can however adopt smug, tea-drinking mode in connection with the lamps on Robert the Devil and the varying ride heights / angles of the coaches, since I believe that responsibility for neither matter rests with me. They may be my lamps on the Pacific, but I don't think 4479 had come out of its box when I was fitting lamps yesterday, so I suggest somebody else probably fitted those - they may even have been on the loco since Grantham's last shows in February or March of this year, variously disturbed by handling since then. Not one of those coaches in the Leeds train is mine, so I'm squeaky clean of guilt in that regard  .

This is great stuff, Graeme, just like being back in front of a load of oiks. 

 

'It wasn't me, Sir, it was 'im!'. Wait until I get to photographing more of your stuff, boy! 

 

Seriously, there is some wonderful stuff on my trainset, and it'll be a joy to photograph as much of it as possible. 

 

I've taken a few more this afternoon........................

 

 

The Down Silver Jubilee was first. With respect to the question of different ride heights and angles of vehicles, I wouldn't tolerate this many discrepancies in the LB BR trains. I've built many of the ex-streamliner cars and none is so 'rubbery' as these. I suppose it comes down to the difference between the camera's absolute clinical perception, compared with the human eyeball. Still, it's one of the trains now (for the next twelve days) on Little Bytham, 'The Streamliner Years'. 

 

 

The Up Coronation came next; not quite so leany as its predecessor.

 

 

No less than MALLARD then appeared on the Down Queen of Scots. For practical reasons, we're using my Pullman sets for the pre-War depiction (even though, strictly-speaking, the Thirds aren't correctly-branded - still, from this angle, can anyone tell?). I think this is one of the best model railway pictures I've ever taken.

 

 

In total contrast, the last train photographed this afternoon was this delightfully-arcane stopper. The J6 on the front looks positively modern. 

 

You Grantham chaps, what kind of adhesive do you use to fix buffers on with? Toothpaste? Take a look at that adjacent CCT! 

 

More to come in the next few days.......................

 

Just out of interest, when LB returns to 'sanity', and the somersault signals have been replaced, Graham Nicholas has kindly suggested they be sold on behalf of CRUK. There's a single home (seen in the pictures above) and a splitting home (seen in the pictures from yesterday). These are really miniature works of art and operate perfectly. Anyone interested, please PM me. Thanks Graham. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Tony Wright

[gr.king]

JW

 

Origin of the lovely Bogie Engineering Coach please. Shame about the huge couplings on that one !!

 

 

Scammels are post war I believe ?

 

My not-very-detailed scratch-built model of one of the MS & LR 1887-ish 25 ton South Yorkshire mineral brakes (with wooden framed bogies!). Some of these were later used as breakdown train vehicles (one still being in the breakdown train at Immingham in the 1950s according to notes and accompanying drawings in April 1977 MRC), grounded bodies of others having been spotted post WW2 in photographs of Cleethorpes in use as offices, mess rooms, stores or even scout huts. A very basic drawing also appears in one of George Dow's "Great Central" trilogy. I have no idea if any of these vehicles actually appeared on the GN section as engineers' vehicles, and if they did they presumably went into blue livery at some point, but with two pretty little ballast wagons having been given to me and my GN ballast brake kit still un-built, I decided that on this occasion the MS & L brake was either on loan, on trial to test suitability, or so recently acquired and urgently needed that no time for a repaint had been found.....

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

These are wonderful photos and videos of the LNER weekend preparations and really whet the appetite. Like many others here, I am looking forward to the main photos and videos. Thank you for sharing them.

 

If I may ask, how wide is your 20 road fiddle yard?

 

Archie

Good evening Archie,

 

Three feet. You need thin fingers, or locos/stock which don't derail.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

In case folk are interested............

 

My Hornby A3 is not a dud (but it's not as good a hauler as ROBERT THE DEVIL). LB's BR trains are a lot heavier than Grantham's! 

[micklner]

Thanks Graeme lovely looking vehicle.

 

Tony

     The Silver Jubilee photo, surely that is lens refraction/distortion , it seems to be a very common problem on modern cameras. One of the coaches is totally distorted it actually looks like its melting. My recent photo of my A2/3 Edward Thompson shown on this thread a few pages back, had a similar banana shape to its centre due to a similar problem with the lens on my camera .

[robertcwp]

In case folk are interested............

 

My Hornby A3 is not a dud (but it's not as good a hauler as ROBERT THE DEVIL). LB's BR trains are a lot heavier than Grantham's! 

Hornby A3s can be duds in other ways, such as warped running plates on the newer ones and the tender sitting too high compared to the engine. Here is my almost out of the box A3 Ladas - a type that doesn't really belong on my layout:

P1080262am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

It had no problems on an 8-car set, but 6 of those are Bachmann Thompsons. The other two are kits built by John Houlden. 

[Tony Wright]

Thanks Graeme lovely looking vehicle.

 

Tony

     The Silver Jubilee photo, surely that is lens refraction/distortion , it seems to be a very common problem on modern cameras. One of the coaches is totally distorted it actually looks like its melting. My recent photo of my A2/3 Edward Thompson shown on this thread a few pages back, had a similar banana shape to its centre due to a similar problem with the lens on my camera .

Mick, 

 

If you paid in excess of £3,000 for a camera/lens (second-hand!), wouldn't you send them back if they suffered from refraction/distortion? Take a look at the QoS picture, taken from much the same angle, please. 

 

I have to say, I get rather tired of 'excuses' for 'bendy' models being laid at the 'feet' of cameras/lenses. Perhaps, if they're cheap/inexpensive? I don't know. 

 

Is the A4 melting? Is the signal box doing the same? Is the CCT made of chocolate in this hot weather? If it's lens aberration, why isn't Graham's signal shaped like a banana? No, that train is bendy, I'm afraid. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Tony Wright

[robertcwp]

Interesting comments about ride height.  Have a look at this set:

P1080334am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

The first two are Bachmann Mark Is. I didn't realise there was such a problem until I looked at this photo. I haven't yet worked out why there is such a difference but it was nothing obvious such as not sitting properly on the bogies or body not being on underframe properly. Further investigation needed...

 

Bonus mark if anyone can work out what the formation represents. The other end of the train is visible in an earlier post showing the carriages built by John Houlden that came to me via Tony.

[gr.king]

This is great stuff, Graeme, just like being back in front of a load of oiks. 

 

'It wasn't me, Sir, it was 'im!'. Wait until I get to photographing more of your stuff, boy! 

 

Seriously, there is some wonderful stuff on my trainset, and it'll be a joy to photograph as much of it as possible. 

 

I've taken a few more this afternoon........................

 

 

Honestly Sir, it was nothing to do with me. I wasn't there when it happened, it was already like that when I arrived. None of them streamliner coaches aint nuffink to do wiv me, neither, I swear it Sir.....

[Mallard60022]

Sorry Jonathan. I didn't look at the side on pic that shows clearly that the set is a Quint (and that is impressive), only the front three quarter view that appeared to show a naughty KC and I only know about KCs in Triplets.Bogies duly noted. I can count to five now but only just as it is ever so hard on my webs.

P

[micklner]

Mick, 

 

If you paid in excess of £3,000 for a camera/lens (second-hand!), wouldn't you send them back if they suffered from refraction/distortion? Take a look at the QoS picture, taken from much the same angle, please. 

 

I have to say, I get rather tired of 'excuses' for 'bendy' models being laid at the 'feet' of cameras/lenses. Perhaps, if they're cheap/inexpensive? I don't know. 

 

Is the A4 melting? Is the signal box doing the same? Is the CCT made of chocolate in this hot weather? If it's lens aberration, why isn't Graham's signal shaped like a banana? No, that train is bendy, I'm afraid. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony,

         I can't explain the "effect" and I certainly wasn't down grading your equipment. or the general quality of the photos which are as usual excellent !!

 

If possible could you do a comparison photo(s) of the Jubilee set taken using a side view !!. It would be very interesting to see if the "distortions" are the same. The earlier posted overhead photo taken by LNER 4479 of the A4 with only the first Jubilee Coach in view ,shows the roof join to be different from the other photo, albeit it is the other side of the Coach.

 

The Peterborough North thread a while ago ,has shown some similar 3/4 views of 'unusual effects" photos again involving Coaches, its seems to be ones further down the train that are unusual shapes. It never seems to occur in photos of Wagon in Trains.

 

thanks

 

Mick

Edited July 30, 2018 by micklner

[drmditch]

This is all very inspirational. (Well, except for the stuff about cameras and distortion which I don't pretend to understand!)

Thank you everybody for the marvelous modelling of splendid prototypes.

 

It's also making me very frustrated that re-building my railway is taking so long.

I shall have to take to take some time out from boring stuff like wiring and laying track and build something exciting.