Hollar Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Interesting comments about ride height. Have a look at this set: P1080334am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr The first two are Bachmann Mark Is. I didn't realise there was such a problem until I looked at this photo. I haven't yet worked out why there is such a difference but it was nothing obvious such as not sitting properly on the bogies or body not being on underframe properly. Further investigation needed... Bonus mark if anyone can work out what the formation represents. The other end of the train is visible in an earlier post showing the carriages built by John Houlden that came to me via Tony. I've seen something similar on John Brighton's Millhouses, which is another large layout where engines are expected to work for a living. Apparently it's because over long distances the pinpoint wheels wear away the holes the run in, resulting in the coaches running lower than when new. One quick solution would seem to be replacement RTR bogies with brass flangeless bearings. Tone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Interesting comments about ride height. Have a look at this set: P1080334am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr The first two are Bachmann Mark Is. I didn't realise there was such a problem until I looked at this photo. I haven't yet worked out why there is such a difference but it was nothing obvious such as not sitting properly on the bogies or body not being on underframe properly. Further investigation needed... Bonus mark if anyone can work out what the formation represents. The other end of the train is visible in an earlier post showing the carriages built by John Houlden that came to me via Tony. Have the sides of the Bachmann TSO at the end nearest the camera lifted up from the underframe? Possibly the self tapping screw through the underframe has not engaged with the interior moulding (which holds the sides down). As for the train I reckon the Master Cutler (I seem to remember you mentioning it when you bought the Gresley RF and Thompson coaches!). Edited July 30, 2018 by mark54 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Tony, I can't explain the "effect" and I certainly wasn't down grading your equipment. or the general quality of the photos which are as usual excellent !! If possible could you do a comparison photo(s) of the Jubilee set taken using a side view !!. It would be very interesting to see if the "distortions" are the same. The Peterborough North thread a while ago ,has shown some similar 3/4 views of 'unusual effects" photos again involving Coaches, its never the first one or two always seems to be ones further down the train. It never seems to occur in photos of Wagons. thanks Mick Thanks Mick, From the 'side' view, any distortion will not be as apparent. It's only in tight perspective that the 'undulations' are so obvious. I've taken pictures on PN, and also got some 'unusual effects', but only 'unusual' (in my experience) because any vehicles are actually out-of-kilter. I can take some more of the SJ, perhaps from a 'kinder' angle, but it's not anything to do with the camera, I assure you. Just some images, if I may, to explain what I mean................ The triplet in this Newcastle-Kings Cross express (just visible) is made from the same Mailcoach kits as the silver Silver Jubilee ones. Look closely, please. Though the ride-height of the three cars are the same (and none of them lean), the cantrails of the two open cars are bowed. Why? Because they are - that's the nature of the (tricky) kits. The Bachmann Mk.1 (second car) in this shot is 'banana-shaped', because it is. Actually, with (real) leaf-sprung carriages of different types, there would be discrepancies in ride-height, but they wouldn't 'melt' or lean all over the place. If the odd carriage looks bowed, it's because it is. When I built the prototype Southern Pride Elizabethan (over 25 years ago), not having a press, I had to form all the tumbeholmes by hand. Not all came out exactly the same - as evident here, but only in tight perspective. To get every carriage in a (long) rake looking in harmony with its neighbours takes great care. Any slight discrepancy (believe me, I know), and the camera will see it, and joyfully point it out. To sum up, if one uses a powerful camera, if things look 'bendy', it's because they really are, whatever their positions in rakes. Regards, Tony. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 And one more......................... 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2018 Who needs DCC sound? Or DCC of any kind! Carlisle.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Have the sides of the Bachmann TSO at the end nearest the camera lifted up from the underframe? Possibly the self tapping screw through the underframe has not engaged with the interior moulding (which holds the sides down). As for the train I reckon the Master Cutler (I seem to remember you mentioning it when you bought the Gresley RF and Thompson coaches!). I shall have another look. It could be that the TSO, which is the older one, has warped. I shall also look at the bogies again. My stock does not do huge mileages. Yes it is a sort of Master Cutler Saturday formation. I have only seen one photo of the train with a Thompson pantry car and that was the Monday to Friday formation with the twin first. The set was crimson and cream apart from the two corridor seconds in maroon. On Saturdays a Thompson first substituted for the twin. Edited July 30, 2018 by robertcwp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2018 Interesting comments about ride height. Have a look at this set: P1080334am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr The first two are Bachmann Mark Is. I didn't realise there was such a problem until I looked at this photo. I haven't yet worked out why there is such a difference but it was nothing obvious such as not sitting properly on the bogies or body not being on underframe properly. Further investigation needed... Bonus mark if anyone can work out what the formation represents. The other end of the train is visible in an earlier post showing the carriages built by John Houlden that came to me via Tony. Robert Bachmann bogies vary in ride height sometimes. Luckily you don't need Commonwealth fitted stock as thesride higher than those fitted with BR1 or Gresley bogie. How do I know? I fit Kaydees to the undertake on my Mark 1s and when checked against my gauge the variation is noticeable. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2018 First of all, a drone-like view of mine (not possible in 1938!) Might have been taken from a Cierva Autogyro... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just out of interest, when LB returns to 'sanity', and the somersault signals have been replaced, Graham Nicholas has kindly suggested they be sold on behalf of CRUK. I'd make a donation for you NOT to sell them, so that they can be used at for the next trip back to the 1930s... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Robert Bachmann bogies vary in ride height sometimes. Luckily you don't need Commonwealth fitted stock as thesride higher than those fitted with BR1 or Gresley bogie. How do I know? I fit Kaydees to the undertake on my Mark 1s and when checked against my gauge the variation is noticeable. Baz I have lots with CW bogies and am aware of that issue.The ones in the photo all have BR bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Yes it is a sort of Master Cutler Saturday formation. I have only seen one photo of the train with a Thompson pantry car and that was the Monday to Friday formation with the twin first. The set was crimson and cream apart from the two corridor seconds in maroon. On Saturdays a Thompson first substituted for the twin. It seems odd to substitute a Thompson FO (42 seats) for a twin first (44 seats). Although it would save the weight of 1 coach I suppose! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 ... what kind of adhesive do you use to fix buffers on with? Toothpaste? Take a look at that adjacent CCT! Clearly lens distortion.... Those are sprung buffers, Tony and should just rotate back to the correct orientation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) For Robert Carroll and anyone else interested: by kind permission of Roy Mears, his B17/5 under construction. I was quite interested to see what he'd done with it as I have one in the Strategic Reserve as well. Edited July 31, 2018 by jwealleans 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) For Robert Carroll and anyone else interested: by kind permission of Roy Mears, his B17/5 under construction. I was quite interested to see what he'd done with it as I have one in the Strategic Reserve as well. You've captured a very common sight, Jonathan, Station Road in Little Bytham is often occupied by railway locomotives and carriages. By the way, I blame your camera for making the fence in the foreground appear leany, seem to be broken in part and apparently rising up out of the ground! Edited July 31, 2018 by Tony Wright Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I blame your camera for making the fence in the foreground appear leany... Wasn't me, sir, it was King, sir, he made me do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It seems odd to substitute a Thompson FO (42 seats) for a twin first (44 seats). Although it would save the weight of 1 coach I suppose! Mon-Fri the twin-FO had at-seat service. On Saturdays, the FO was allocated partly for dining and partly for first class. The FO sometimes appeared during the week too when the twin was unavailable or being overhauled. At least in the Summer months, the train was often strengthened on Saturdays, so saving a bit in weight in first class probably helped to offset that. Master-Cutler_1956-7_Winter by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just to whet appetites even further, a few pictures from this morning. My intention is to do as many stills as I can in the next twelve days or so, building up a library beforehand. All the LNER trains are now on and tested, so it gives me the ease and opportunity of photographing these beautiful models in plenty of time and in unrestricted (by bodies) space. setting up 16 fiddle yard.jpg setting up 17 fiddle yard.jpg Both ends of the fiddle yard now show a range of locos/trains previously unseen. setting up 18 goods yard.jpg There are some very nice pre-Nationalisation wagons/vans now occupying the goods yard (shame about the tension-lock, though!). Trains running 01 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg This morning, Graham Nicholas assembled this 15-car West Riding express into its correct formation, and here it is bowling northwards behind is own namesake (note to self - insist that those who put locos on make sure that lamps are on straight and that front couplings 'dangle down' as they should!!!!!!). Trains running 02 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg Trains running 03 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg Two more shots as the express travels through LB. Tight perspective shots like this do display the problems in making sure all of the cars in a rake ride at a uniform height respectively. Trains running 04 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg Trains running 05 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg Trains running 06 ROBERT THE DEVIL on Down express.jpg When Graham gets home, he'll describe this train in detail. He also took some pictures, and some moving footage. I have to say, I was very impressed with this Hornby A1's ability to take this kit-built set. Granted, I think some of the cars are made of plastic, but even so. Out of interest, I'll try one of my Hornby Pacifics on this set. It'll prove one of three things. Either my RTR A3 will pull it (which suggests the rake is very free-running and relatively light), or that I've got a dud if it won't, or that LB's kit-built rakes (being all-metal) are much heavier. Excellent Tony, a change is as good as a rest. ENJOY. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2018 I'd make a donation for you NOT to sell them, so that they can be used at for the next trip back to the 1930s...Alternatively, why not keep the somersaults - sell the originals for charity and leave LB in the 1930’s..... Happy days! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Tony, Yes totally understandable that there will always be slight variations in height and lean in 3/4 views. The "melting effect" I am referring to as below. If the coaches are anything in this condition (which I doubt very much) then the bin beckons. Apologies for the quality as taken via computer screen for quickness. I presume this is part of the same rake Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2018 Wasn't me, sir, it was King, sir, he made me do it. Maybe it was the paunch pushed against it.. . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Tony, Yes totally understandable that there will always be slight variations in height and lean in 3/4 views. The "melting effect" I am referring to as below. If the coaches are anything in this condition (which I doubt very much) then the bin beckons. Apologies for the quality as taken via computer screen for quickness. fullsizeoutput_1914.jpeg I presume this is part of the same rake fullsizeoutput_1915.jpeg Mick It is, Mick, I think we'd better let the matter lie now, because we're not in the game (or shouldn't be) to 'rubbish' others' work on this thread. Constructive criticism is to be encouraged, of course. My point to begin with was that the camera has not 'lied' and (perhaps pompously, I admit) I merely suggested that no rake in LB's BR depiction (the norm') looks quite as wobbly as this (as I hope my recent pictures have proven). Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It is, Mick, I think we'd better let the matter lie now, because we're not in the game (or shouldn't be) to 'rubbish' others' work on this thread. Constructive criticism is to be encouraged, of course. That was never the intention. thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Interesting comments about ride height. Have a look at this set: P1080334am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr The first two are Bachmann Mark Is. I didn't realise there was such a problem until I looked at this photo. I haven't yet worked out why there is such a difference but it was nothing obvious such as not sitting properly on the bogies or body not being on underframe properly. Further investigation needed... Bonus mark if anyone can work out what the formation represents. The other end of the train is visible in an earlier post showing the carriages built by John Houlden that came to me via Tony. Hi Robert, yes this can be a problem with Bachmann coaches bought over the years, if you examine the bogies you may find that although they are the same bogie they are from different moulds. On Wharfeside I had similar mismatched coaches after having the bogies off for fitting brass bearings and somehow mixed up the bogies so a couple of coaches were higher at one end, the coaches had been unused so not worn. I swapped the bogies around and got some sort of equilibrium eventually. There may also be a bit of a difference in the bogie mount on the coach floor to compensate for the bogie difference. This rake for the Waverley was particularly difficult to align and I think I've still got the formation out of kilter. Dave Franks. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 For Robert Carroll and anyone else interested: by kind permission of Roy Mears, his B17/5 under construction. I was quite interested to see what he'd done with it as I have one in the Strategic Reserve as well. Whose resin casting is this? It looks like its coming along very well. I built one back in the 80s based on Golden Arrow castings if I remember correctly. They were based on a modified Hornby body of that era I think so didn't have the correct shape to the top of the boiler and I think the skirts rose up too high. I can't just get mine out for comparison as we're sitting in the transit lounge in Singapore on our way to Europe! Andrew 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Alternatively, why not keep the somersaults - sell the originals for charity and leave LB in the 1930’s..... Happy days! I like this! Please, Sir! Forgive me if I speak out of turn for I am young(ish) and ignorant, having not seen any working British steam - ever. Therefore, all my British steam experiences are vicarious ones or via preservation societies and I do realise this is a long way from those of you who really did enjoy trainspotting in Britain in the nineteen fifties and sixties but I do find the appearance of LB in the thirties to be far more exciting than in later periods. Maybe Sir could consider this an occasional exercise and possibly something to be repeated at some point in the future? (assuming that all goes well this time, of course!). I know - this exercise has barely started! I hope I don't get detention for my audacity. John. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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