Wright writes.....

[chris p bacon]

 The group today didn't bring any of their models (a shame because they're always most interesting), largely because they were DCC. It doesn't matter. LB plays host to umpteen DCC-fitted locos. 

I suspect that Richard Harpers may of had trouble, seeing as they are that broad gauge P4 malarky.

[AndyID]

I suspect that Richard Harpers may of had trouble, seeing as they are that broad gauge P4 malarky.

 

Why do you think it's necessary to put-down other modellers just because they don't happen to conform to your "proper" standards? I don't choose to use P4 myself, but I have great respect for those that do.

[jwealleans]

I suspect Dave's point was that they'd be running on the sleepers on the firmly OO LB.

[AndyID]

I suspect Dave's point was that they'd be running on the sleepers on the firmly OO LB.

I suspect Dave is quite capable of speaking for himself.

[gr.king]

may of

May of?

 

Is another digression into rules of grammar due?

[chris p bacon]

I suspect Dave is quite capable of speaking for himself.

Yes I am, and I'll say that it was meant as a tongue in cheek joke as the owner of Sidmouth,  a superb P4 layout by a club member that was at our exhibition earlier this year was an attendee at Little Bytham.

Sometimes there isn't an agenda

 

May of?

 

Is another digression into rules of grammar due?

Bedfordshire dialect.

[kingfisher24]

Tony

 

I have all but completed a conversion job, namely converting a great british locomotives collection j39 in to a j38. All necessary modifications have been done to the loco which was stripped down to its component parts, the static chassis was consigned to where it belongs (filed under b ) and a comet chassis and an old set of romfords from the spares box together with a smooth running 50/1 gearbox and mashima 12/10. The loco has been weathered to match photographs and just needs some small tweaks before it can begin service.

 

 

The unfortunate thing about modelling two cylinder inside motion locomotives of this kind is the fact that i am left with a blank area between the frames where ofcourse the inside motion should be. Off hand so you know if there is a kit for the inside motion for a j38/39 which would do the job. Or will scratch building again be the answer?

 

Gary

Edited April 15, 2016 by kingfisher24

[CUTLER2579]

I suspect Dave is quite capable of speaking for himself.

Knowing Dave,yes he is well capable.However I fear you don't know Johnathon,Dave or Richard .  Otherwise you would know that it's banter between mates.Crikey if Dave took offence at the things I have said to him,I would be 6 feet under by now.

Regards,Del.

[Tony Wright]

Yes I am, and I'll say that it was meant as a tongue in cheek joke as the owner of Sidmouth,  a superb P4 layout by a club member that was at our exhibition earlier this year was an attendee at Little Bytham.

Sometimes there isn't an agenda

 

Bedfordshire dialect.

I think almost everyone took it as 'tongue in cheek' Dave. 

 

Richard certainly enjoyed himself. I think his layout of Sidmouth is wonderful; one of the finest overall model railway creations in recent years. All his own work too; I wish I could say the same of mine, but they are entirely different animals. 

 

We spent a most enjoyable time discussing our different approaches. I must have appeared a bit prickly when he asked if the locos I'd built were compensated. I answered his question in seven (perhaps terse in context) words - no, and why would I need to? He later got me back (quite rightly) by pointing out that brake vans on my unfitted freights should carry side lights, as well as a tail lamp. I think he was quite surprised when I drove an A3 on 13 bogies past his viewpoint at over 200 scale mph!

 

Returning to our different approaches, we're both achieving what we set out to do, but following different paths. Without being contentious (I hope), though it would probably be possible to build Sidmouth in OO, it would be impossible to build Little Bytham in P4. I'd better qualify that before a fatwah (is that the right spelling?) is placed on my life by the scale extremists (tongue in cheek). Trackwise, an OO Sidmouth would not look as good as the P4 Sidmouth, even if the architectural/infrastructure/scenic modelling were to the same standard. It could certainly work as well if done properly, but it would still be narrow gauge. Why 'impossible' to build Little Bytham in P4? First, it couldn't be done in 'only' 32' by 12'. The inner radii are down to 3' - far too tight to get a P4 Pacific round in my view. Second, in order to give a 'reasonable' representation of the traffic through the station on the main line on a summer's day in 1958 some 40 odd trains have had to be provided. The average express length is 10/11 cars, the longer freights over 40 wagons, plus the locals and shorter freights. Apart from several Bachmann Mk.1s and a few RTR wagons, all the rolling stock has been built - rigid. Third, to be able to run these trains in the extended sequence (lasting five hours - not all in one go) over 80 different locos are required (this is based on a list in BRILL some years ago). I've built over 90% of these (granted, over 40 years). I have neither the skill nor the lifetime of one of Methuselah's children to have achieved this in P4. Fourth, and perhaps argumentatively, why does every P4 layout I've ever seen, with a couple of exceptions (Adavoyle being one), always have to run so slowly? Some just crawl along, whatever the line being modelled. Richard spoke of his delight in just caressing buffers as a loco reaches its stock. Mine can do that if needed, but it's the sight of an RA9 big engine racing through which inspires me. Anyway, I'm not so sure that all shunting work was carried out at a crawl. My vivid memories of Jinties shunting in the yard parallel to Lightfoot Street in Chester are of a continuous banging and crashing, the locos in reverse gear before they'd finished travelling forward! 

 

All the above said, what a delight to talk to a most-accomplished modeller who has a different approach. As we both agreed, the hobby is a broad church. Long may it continue. 

[Horsetan]

May of?...

May of this year?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

As a representative of HMG's Prevent In Schools and Students TAsK EnfoRcement I am calling attention to any internet posts that contain key trigger words,

 

Your highly inflammatory post contains the following trigger words:

 

Different Approaches, Fatwah, Extremists, Church, 200mph, P4, Rigid, Reasonable, Done In, Lasting Five hours, Methuselah's Children, Big Engine Racing, Argumentatively, Caressing Buffers.

 

These trigger words identify you as someone who is clearly radicalised, and who would benefit from a low cost Prevent Intervention Strategy Session.

 

I am formally requesting that you attend a Prevent Education Consultation at your nearest constabulary, where you will be warmly received by a committee waiting with a sloping board on which you may rest whilst soothing wet towels are applied to your facial areas.

 

On completion of the successful educational consultation, you will be gradually reintegrated into society by way of weekly meetings supervised by a Chassis Compensation Oversight Committee and representatives from the P4 security force.

 

You will be charged a nominal fee for this educational consultation.

 

Please have nice day.

[Horsetan]

...Prevent Intervention Strategy Session....

This is being run by senior lecturer P.I. Staker.

[Poggy1165]

This business of putting a price on things fascinates me. After all, there are paintings out there going for hundreds of thousands of pounds, even millions, for which I would not give sixpence.

 

However, we are in an age where a commercially produced A4 Pacific in OO is being offered for just shy of £500, so a few hundred quid for a well made Thompson Pacific (which is a much rarer model) seems eminently reasonable to me.

 

As for small LNER engines going for buttons, if anyone has small GC locos in 7mm scale going for buttons please let me know, as I have access to an excellent button shop.

 

(Actually, the low estimation people have for small engines in general always rather puzzles me. Railways had lots of small engines, which did useful work, and such locos were seen every day hauling short trains in obscure locations, the sort of places, in fact, most of us model. While an A4 or a P2 is all very well, the truth is a little engine is much more useful to most of us. Unless we are simply collectors of express engines, of course.)

[Mallard60022]

As a representative of HMG's Prevent In Schools and Students TAsK EnfoRcement I am calling attention to any internet posts that contain key trigger words,

 

Your highly inflammatory post contains the following trigger words:

 

Different Approaches, Fatwah, Extremists, Church, 200mph, P4, Rigid, Reasonable, Done In, Lasting Five hours, Methuselah's Children, Big Engine Racing, Argumentatively, Caressing Buffers.

 

These trigger words identify you as someone who is clearly radicalised, and who would benefit from a low cost Prevent Intervention Strategy Session.

 

I am formally requesting that you attend a Prevent Education Consultation at your nearest constabulary, where you will be warmly received by a committee waiting with a sloping board on which you may rest whilst soothing wet towels are applied to your facial areas.

 

On completion of the successful educational consultation, you will be gradually reintegrated into society by way of weekly meetings supervised by a Chassis Compensation Oversight Committee and representatives from the P4 security force.

 

You will be charged a nominal fee for this educational consultation.

 

Please have nice day.

Have a good weekend Tony. I shall wave tomorrow as I thunder screech past on my HT service southbound, mid morning and then northbound, after Dinner. I shall be checking for any bad language from operators within the LB shed.

Phil

Edited April 15, 2016 by Mallard60022

[davidw]

 

 

However, we are in an age where a commercially produced A4 Pacific in OO is being offered for just shy of £500, so a few hundred quid for a well made Thompson Pacific (which is a much rarer model) seems eminently reasonable to me.

 

 

The Dapol A4 is moving in unchartered waters - excuse the mixed metaphors! IMHO the Hornby model is far better. The Cartazzi and the lamps on the Dapol are very 'toy like' and need a rethink. That said with respect to the loco's mentioned earlier,  I'm tempted by 60501, but I already have several examples of Thompson pacifics with 60506 nearing the paint shop.

Edited April 15, 2016 by davidw

[chrisf]

May of?

 

Is another digression into rules of grammar due?

 

Perhaps.  I think the expression is by no means confined to Bedfordshire and, like the insidious "tr**n st*t**n", has become so commonplace as to present a problem in eradicating it.  It is not the first appearance on RMweb by any means ...

 

Chris

[polybear]

Chas,

 

Here goes. 

 

No Thompson Pacifics of any kind ever carried a banjo dome (despite what draughtsmen such as Roche or Beattie might have drawn). The only locos to carry a banjo dome were the last-built batch of A3s, and then only until their first boiler change. Yes, there was the pair of V4s which had a tall banjo dome, but they're not relevant here. 

 

When rebuilt, all the A2/2s had a streamlined dome, as did the A2/1s and GREAT NORTHERN. Latterly, 60505 had a Thompson 117 boiler with what should have been a round dome on the second ring, but it had a streamlined cover. All the A2/3s were built with Dia. 117 boilers, with a round dome on the second ring. Another point, and this is putting the boot in, only 500 and 511 (for a short time) had the boiler cladding divided into four sections (as with some of yours). All the rest had it divided into five sections, as did 60511 in early BR days and 60500 from 1962. Latterly, all the A2/3s received Peppercorn Dia. 118 boilers, with a streamlined dome set further back. The Thompson and Peppercorn A2/3, A2 and A1 boilers were all interchangeable, thus some Peppercorn A2s and A1s received Thompson boilers. In the case of the A2s, these carried a round dome on the second ring. A1s which got Thompson boilers had a round dome on the second ring, but a streamlined cover was fitted. The only exception to this was 60153, which had a complete round dome for a time. All the V2s carried streamlined domes. 

 

What are the origins of the models, please? The banjo dome ones aren't DJH (they got this right), so are they Millholme, or have you fitted such domes from elsewhere? If the former, avoid at all costs (even if you're given them). The Millholme A2/2 and A2/3 kits were among the worst ever produced. Wills A2s and A3s also had a banjo dome provided. Even the picture on the A3 box, showing FLYING SCOTSMAN, had one, which it never carried. 

 

Sorry to be the bearer of such news. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I see an overwhelming need for a "Modellers Guide to Creating an accurate A1 (also A2, A3, A4..... hey, there could be a series of books......) which identifies all the class detail variations, suppliers of bits, techniques etc. etc.

 

All that is needed is someone eminently qualified and knowledgeable to pen such books.  Ideas on a postcard, please.....

[Tony Wright]

The Dapol A4 is moving in unchartered waters. IMHO the Hornby model is far better, since the Cartazzi and the lamps on the Dapol are very 'toy like' and need a rethink. That said,  I'm tempted by 60501, but I already have several examples of Thompson pacifics with 60506 nearing the paint shop.

David,

 

Tempted or not, 60501 has now sold, for the figure asked. Considering it's around a hundred pounds (?) cheaper than the Dapol A4, then that's splendid value for money in my book. It is, of course, weathered, making it entirely realistic for a York-based Pacific not late-of shops in the period. That could put some folk off, but it's exactly how I remember the A2/2s (with the singular exception of MONS MEG on one occasion, fresh from a heavy overhaul). It also runs beautifully. 

 

The Dapol A4 intrigues me. Why is the price so high, compared with the other mainstream RTR OO Gauge A4s? Is it because of all the DCC wizardry? If it is, I'm even more intrigued because, during a very rare period of having some spare money, I bought a Golden Age A4. In fairness, I got it at a very fair price, but the price was actually a little higher than it might have been because I wanted all the DCC stuff inside it chucked out! Still, at just under a thousand, it wasn't cheap. What does a Golden Age A4 cost these days? Over twice the price of the Dapol one? 

 

I agree with you David that the lamps are very toy-like. I didn't notice the Cartazzi - is it a flop-around type, like the old Hornby one? One thing I did notice was the 1928 corridor tender behind SILVER FOX. Despite the claims that all the different locos are coupled to the right tender, did anyone at Dapol not know that SILVER FOX only ever towed a 1935 streamlined corridor tender? At over £400.00 (is this right?), shouldn't that be right, even if the headlamps do light up? 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

I see an overwhelming need for a "Modellers Guide to Creating an accurate A1 (also A2, A3, A4..... hey, there could be a series of books......) which identifies all the class detail variations, suppliers of bits, techniques etc. etc.

 

All that is needed is someone eminently qualified and knowledgeable to pen such books.  Ideas on a postcard, please.....

Brian,

 

An interesting thought, though I'm committed to two books already this year; I assume you mean me? 

 

As an illustration of my absolute sadness, on Wednesday I spent a most-pleasant day with Chris Hawkins of Irwell Press (discussing one of the books in part). A friend/colleague of his was present, and they examined a superb shot of A4 60008 about to leave Kings Cross. When, why, what, where, I was asked, because there was nothing on the back of the print. The last point was a given but I was able to tell within less than six months the date and the circumstances (because of livery, tender type, size of drain cocks, chimney, etc). Another A4 shot was produced. 1955, said I. This one had the date on the back - 1955! Expecting some sort of praise, I got what I deserved. 'You sad git!' And, we went to the pub. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Tony Wright

[davidw]

David,

 

Tempted or not, 60501 has now sold, for the figure asked. Considering it's around a hundred pounds (?) cheaper than the Dapol A4, then that's splendid value for money in my book. It is, of course, weathered, making it entirely realistic for a York-based Pacific not late-of shops in the period. That could put some folk off, but it's exactly how I remember the A2/2s (with the singular exception of MONS MEG on one occasion, fresh from a heavy overhaul). It also runs beautifully. 

 

The Dapol A4 intrigues me. Why is the price so high, compared with the other mainstream RTR OO Gauge A4s? Is it because of all the DCC wizardry? If it is, I'm even more intrigued because, during a very rare period of having some spare money, I bought a Golden Age A4. In fairness, I got it at a very fair price, but the price was actually a little higher than it might have been because I wanted all the DCC stuff inside it chucked out! Still, at just under a thousand, it wasn't cheap. What does a Golden Age A4 cost these days? Over twice the price of the Dapol one? 

 

I agree with you David that the lamps are very toy-like. I didn't notice the Cartazzi - is it a flop-around type, like the old Hornby one? One thing I did notice was the 1928 corridor tender behind SILVER FOX. Despite the claims that all the different locos are coupled to the right tender, did anyone at Dapol not know that SILVER FOX only ever towed a 1935 streamlined corridor tender? At over £400.00 (is this right?), shouldn't that be right, even if the headlamps do light up? 

 

Apologies - I wasn't intending to imply that the money asked wasn't good value.... 

[chris p bacon]

Tempted or not, 60501 has now sold, for the figure asked. 

So there is a buyer somewhere.

 

 

For info this is what to expect sometimes on Ebay, listed at present is

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DJH-K74-KIT-BUILT-LNER-ex-GNR-4-4-2-CLASS-C2-ATLANTIC-LOCO-3990-HENRY-OAKLEY-ng-/331825390384?hash=item4d4255a330:g:GN0AAOSw8RJXBqEh

 

It says "professionally  assembled and painted" and yet if you zoom in on the pics there is paint on the rail face of the tyres and the lining is . . . .I'll let the pictures tell the story. You have no idea how it will run if at all and as a minor point to note I can't believe that a "professional" would not put some sleeving on the pickups.

 

All for the princely sum of £450, the seller will pay the postage though so there is a bonus.

[Tony Wright]

Apologies - I wasn't intending to imply that the money asked wasn't good value.... 

No apologies necessary David.

 

I, and I don't think anyone else, thought you implied it was not good value. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Horsetan]

....What does a Golden Age A4 cost these days?....

 

Enough to make a Martin Finney A4 look like a bargain.

[polybear]

Brian,

 

An interesting thought, though I'm committed to two books already this year; I assume you mean me? 

 

You Tony?  The thought had never crossed my mind, honest...    But now you mention it.....

 

As an illustration of my absolute sadness, on Wednesday I spent a most-pleasant day with Chris Hawkins of Irwell Press (discussing one of the books in part). A friend/colleague of his was present, and they examined a superb shot of A4 60008 about to leave Kings Cross. When, why, what, where, I was asked, because there was nothing on the back of the print. The last point was a given but I was able to tell within less than six months the date and the circumstances (because of livery, tender type, size of drain cocks, chimney, etc). Another A4 shot was produced. 1955, said I. This one had the date on the back - 1955! Expecting some sort of praise, I got what I deserved. 'You sad git!' And, we went to the pub. 

 

Qualified?  I rest my case.

[polybear]

The Dapol A4 intrigues me. Why is the price so high, compared with the other mainstream RTR OO Gauge A4s? Is it because of all the DCC wizardry? If it is, I'm even more intrigued because, during a very rare period of having some spare money, I bought a Golden Age A4. In fairness, I got it at a very fair price, but the price was actually a little higher than it might have been because I wanted all the DCC stuff inside it chucked out! Still, at just under a thousand, it wasn't cheap. What does a Golden Age A4 cost these days? Over twice the price of the Dapol one? 

 

 

From the Golden Age Models website, for an A4:

 

"The price depends upon the number ordered and is expected to be £1,250 plus VAT and delivery, with a £100 saving per locomotive for pre-orders with deposit or orders for more than one locomotive".

 

- So you're looking at a cool fifteen hundred plus delivery.  Looks as though you did ok Tony.