Hornby 2 BIL

[Ceptic]

OK, I'm waving the white flag on the subject of 2 BILs as trailer units.

 

Colin

 

Nooo, Colin. Don't give up !!

 

i reckon it would very easy for Hornby to produce an un-powered 2-BIL*, if they so wished.

They've caught on, so far, to producing 2 reasonable models of pre / post nationalization SR /BR(S) Emus, and I hope the response to these, rewards their efforts.

 

*Would it not be easier for Hornby to use the DTC's u/frame ? I'm pretty sure the DMBT's equipment is plug-in. All it needs is the frames / wheels of the motor bogie.

 

As always, with Hornby, we'll have to play 'Wait 'n see.'

 

All the Best for Christmas and the New Year.

Frank.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Ceptic

[RFS]

Hi RFS,

 

I hadn't noticed that the 2 BIL model had interior lighting!

Colin

 

You're right! I had assumed that, like all other recent EMUs, it would have lighting but it appears not....

[Ceptic]

You're right! I had assumed that, like all other recent EMUs, it would have lighting but it appears not....

 

Even the old Triang SUB had headcode lighting !!

[farren]

timber collector guard which looks a bit exaggerated and the wrong angles at the top. i have been looking at some other SEMU and it seem that they don't seem to have all the same collector guards throughout the same class i have been looking at the 4sub's so could this be the case with the 2 Bil's and the one Hornby as done is just one that no one as a photo off? did the shoes ever get swoop around the different class's could not find enough 2Bil's to compare fairly.

[01001]

This is the model thay should have done instead of 4VEP . glad to see Hornby have not given up on southern emus after the vep disater . I definatley get one these but will giving it full yellow ends . I hope there will release BR blue next year.

 

stuart

Edited December 22, 2012 by 01001

[FourSUB]

timber collector guard which looks a bit exaggerated and the wrong angles at the top. i have been looking at some other SEMU and it seem that they don't seem to have all the same collector guards throughout the same class i have been looking at the 4sub's so could this be the case with the 2 Bil's and the one Hornby as done is just one that no one as a photo off? did the shoes ever get swoop around the different class's could not find enough 2Bil's to compare fairly.

Photo reference in my post 181 on page 8. Several other photos around of early numbered units with this style, an example is 2023 at Brighton in 1968 on page 50 of John Glover's 'Southern Electric'.

[Guest maxthemapman]

Don't want to poison the thread, but I took a look at the Hornby promotional videos, and couldn't help noticing that for the 4-VEP, the vehicle was static throughout, it never moved, and in the 2-BIL video, the unit moves successfully under its own power, presumably. Revealing?

[stewartingram]

Yes Stewart,

 

You are quite right.  I have no steam locos, but what you say is correct. I have made a basic error re. DC running of electric motors

 

I am now off to the library, where I shall be left with a loaded revolver on the table in order to do the 'right thing'.

 

Colin

 

No worries Colin, glad to be of help!

Seasons Greetings, Stewart

[SRman]

Finish the HAL first Colin!

 

[dinkyme]

Model Rail mag states that 2BIL is to be release in January

[SRman]

Thought I had, SRman!

 

IMG_5452.JPG

 

Here is the Tin HAL in question, along with a first series 2 HAL.  Incidentally,  Hornby's model of 2 BIL 2134 has a chassis which is correct for these types of EMUs too. 

 

Colin

[whisper mode]You just talked me out of saving you from "Doing the right thing", Colin!!!!

 

The HALs are both superb, BTW.

[robertcwp]

A photo of the motor third brake of 2011 when new shows it to have a shoebeam that appears to be similar in shape to the Hornby model, but later photos show a different shape to be more common (like those typically seen on 4 Sub units and SR 4 EPBs).

 

Edit: see later post for correction http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65633-Hornby-2-bil/page-10&do=findComment&comment=887911

Edited December 24, 2012 by robertcwp

[robertcwp]

Here is a 2 Hal with a difference:

 

2-HAL_2626_Wdon_7-7-67 by robertcwp, on Flickr

[Guest oldlugger]

 

But what would be the cost saving to Hornby of omitting the motor, pick ups and gears, compared to having to pack and label two variants of the same model? .... and would this translate into a significant saving to the purchaser?

 

I doubt it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Quite right, John. Plus, with Hornby the inevitability of the less knowledgeable - 'toy end' customers not realising they are buying a dummy. Bachmann have always said that cost is the issue - I suspect it would be the same for Hornby. A dummy 2-BIL is a nice idea but I suspect it is not a viable one.

CHRIS LEIGH

Sorry fellas but you are wrong. Continental companies such as Roco have been selling dummy EMUs and locos for years at substantially lower prices to the customer. Presumably it has made sound business sense otherwise they would have ditched the idea years ago. As far as one can ascertain, Roco is a much smaller company than Hornby, so the conjecture is that if a smaller company can do this why can't a bigger one, unless of course the doubting Thomas' amongst us would like it to be as their edict states? Colin I'm right behind you on this one.

 

Cheers

Simon

[Xerces Fobe2]

Hi Robert,

 

I hope this is your photo or we won't be seeing it here for long!  It is a very good shot of an interesting pairing though.  There were other units of this combination and it just goes to show that BIL and HAL coaches were interchangeable  I have tried a mock up of this pairing with models of my own - it does look kind of strange even though it really is authentic. 

 

Perhaps this would be a variation too far to suggest to Hornby, but just look at how many BILs/HALs make up the train- at least five units!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin

 

If you llok at the old Ian Allan ABC's from 1960's they detail all the reformations of 2BIL's and 2HAL's  I remember seeing post-war all steel HAL coaches and BIL/HAL combinations at Reading circa 1970/71 however being much younger then and I did not pay the attention to detail that I would today - but at least i did see them!

 

XF

Edited December 24, 2012 by Xerces Fobe2

[Andy Y]

I hope this is your photo or we won't be seeing it here for long

It definitely is.

[Ceptic]

Sorry fellas but you are wrong. Continental companies such as Roco have been selling dummy EMUs and locos for years at substantially lower prices to the customer. Presumably it has made sound business sense otherwise they would have ditched the idea years ago. As far as one can ascertain, Roco is a much smaller company than Hornby, so the conjecture is that if a smaller company can do this why can't a bigger one, unless of course the doubting Thomas' amongst us would like it to be as their edict states? Colin I'm right behind you on this one.

 

Cheers

Simon

And I'm right behind you both.

[Xerces Fobe2]

 

And I'm right behind you both.

And I'm joining the queue too!

 

XF

Edited December 24, 2012 by Xerces Fobe2

[Tigermoth]

On 24/12/2012 at 01:26, Andy Y said:

It definitely is.

Using other peoples photos for research or discussion is allowed even without their permission, what a shame not to make use of this exception, see here article SS29.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Tigermoth

[Southernman46]

Perhaps this would be a variation too far to suggest to Hornby, but just look at how many BILs/HALs make up the train- at least five units!

This extended into the use of later units too - on the South Eastern division (up to the influx of new 4-VEP's in 1974) 10-12 car trains of BR 2-HAP's were common.............

[Andy Y]

Using other peoples photos for research or discussion is open to question, see here ...UK copyright...

 

Using other peoples' photos to illustrate posts on RMweb is not open to question, see here - Forum Rules http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33-copyright-rules/page-1?hl=copyright

[dibber25]

Don't want to poison the thread, but I took a look at the Hornby promotional videos, and couldn't help noticing that for the 4-VEP, the vehicle was static throughout, it never moved, and in the 2-BIL video, the unit moves successfully under its own power, presumably. Revealing?

Not really. Some pre-pro samples are for livery approval and turn up without motors etc. Others are for mechanical approval and turn up in plain grey plastic. Sometimes manufacturers get lucky and an early sample arrives with both full livery and mechanicals.

[Gwiwer]

Further to which Andy's (and therefore RMweb's) position on hotlinking (causing someone else's image to display here while hosted elsewhere) is clearly set out under the link at post 233.  In three simple words: "Thou Shalt Not".

[Tigermoth]

Using other peoples' photos to illustrate posts on RMweb is not open to question, see here - Forum Rules http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33-copyright-rules/page-1?hl=copyright

I did read the forum rules but surely we are in the "non-commercial research" and there is an exception for this in law ? It seems such a shame not to be able to discuss a photo that has been put openly on the net and where the copyright law is being respected. I can perfectly understand those who may be doubtfull of breaking the law but it has been explained in the copyright act clearly unless of course this forum is a commercial concern that would obviously change things greatly.

[Oldddudders]

I did read the forum rules but surely we are in the "non-commercial research" and there is an exception for this in law ? It seems such a shame not to be able to discuss a photo that has been put openly on the net and where the copyright law is being respected. I can perfectly understand those who may be doubtfull of breaking the law but it has been explained in the copyright act clearly unless of course this forum is a commercial concern that would obviously change things greatly.

How about "Andy Y's house - Andy Y's rules?" We are fortunate to have acknowledged authorities like robertcwp who generously allow us to inspect their photos on flickr. Be grateful.