Dapol Class 121 and 122 in OO gauge

[dibber25]

Chris, did they say anything about the (probably near impossible to achieve?) black lines on either side of the cream lining?  On the latest, much larger, pictures the lining looks a bit odd to me because the black edging isn't present but it would be a very thin line in 4mm scale of course.

I once had a BR official black and white shot of W55000 when brand new and you could see the black edging quite clearly. It was very thin. I tried to find that picture but I guess I've loaned it out somewhere and never had it back. From memory the lines were so fine they would be impossible in OO but just about possible in 'O'. Also, to be sure of accurate register you'd have to print the black first, across the whole line width, then print a slightly narrower white barrier layer on top, and the cream on top of that. Difficult and impossibly expensive I would guess. I did mentioned the black lines in an e-mail to Andy at Dapol but I expressed the view that they wouldn't be possible in 'OO'. My main concern was that the green shades needed to be corrected - the light green was too dark and the dark green was too light, making for very little difference between the two. We chose a couple of colours which are much better but it really is difficult working from colour swatches. Who'd be a model manufacturer?!! (CJL)

[Gwiwer]

I agree that the black lining would be very thin if anything like true scale but how does that compare with the lining offered by Bachmann on their maroon Mk1 coaches?  That too is oversize to my eyes but not intrusively so.

 

Personally I can always add a fine black line with a 0.05mm mapping pen

[SRman]

Hornby seem to have managed the very fine cream lining edging the grey lines on their BR mixed traffic steam liveries. Would that be much coarser than the black line on the DMU?

[dibber25]

I don't know enough about the technicalities of printing onto models but I suspect that the combination of black and very pale cream with very critical registration of very fine lines would make it difficult to do it well. Personally I'd prefer no black line to one that was over-thick. Also different Chinese factories have different degrees of expertise in this area. (CJL)

[MGR Hooper!]

A thicker black lining with a narrower cream lining double printed on top?

[The Stationmaster]

A thicker black lining with a narrower cream lining double printed on top?

 

Which would no doubt increase the price.

 

As Chris has said different factories have different levels of expertise when it comes to printing - witness the difference between the lining on Hornby's locos and that on Bachmann's.  Possibly the visual impact of the cream line could be made slightly less by making it very slightly narrower or altering teh shade - nbut this is all the sort of messing around which delays release dates by losing production slots and impacts on costs

[dibber25]

Which would no doubt increase the price.

 

As Chris has said different factories have different levels of expertise when it comes to printing - witness the difference between the lining on Hornby's locos and that on Bachmann's.  Possibly the visual impact of the cream line could be made slightly less by making it very slightly narrower or altering teh shade - nbut this is all the sort of messing around which delays release dates by losing production slots and impacts on costs

The Sanda Kan factory, when it produced models for Hornby, was the undoubted leader in very fine printing work. This expertise and (presumably) high quality equipment passed to Bachmann and one could see the immediate effect on new Bachmann releases at the time. Rapido has a factory which is capable of some very fine work - the FGW Local Lines livery on Realtrack's 143 for instance - but it is necessary for factories to work within their limits. Only Dapol will know the tolerances to which their factory is capable of working and the result of undertaking a print job which is too critical for your machines/staff, is a massive increase in wastage - bodies which are scrap because one line is blurred or out of register. If the wastage rate is more than 2 or 3 per cent it's better not to do it. (CJL)

[Miss Prism]

The 1/16" black line would not be discernible in 4mm. I think the important distinction is between the 1" cantrail cream and the 1.75" waistband cream. (see post #14). Since doing that sketch, I have discovered many other variations of the positions of the cantrail and waistband lines, but the distinction between their thicknesses is retained, at least in most cases.

[Chris Higgs]

The 1/16" black line would not be discernible in 4mm. I think the important distinction is between the 1" cantrail cream and the 1.75" waistband cream. (see post #14). Since doing that sketch, I have discovered many other variations of the positions of the cantrail and waistband lines, but the distinction between their thicknesses is retained, at least in most cases.

 

As mentioned in my previous posting #260 (and others e.g #254) I don't think this holds for the Class 122 when built. Numerous photos of them ex-works and in early service show the cantrail cream to have invariably been the same width as that at the waistband. I would guess this was down to Gloucester mis-interpreting the painting spec.

 

This is in contrast to the Class 121 (and indeed perhaps all other classes) which were lined as you describe.

 

Chris

Edited November 21, 2016 by Chris Higgs

[Miss Prism]

Ah, yes, thanks Chris. That explains a lot. (The link in #254 didn't work for me yesterday when I tried it.) With regards to 'Gloucester mis-interpreting the painting spec', ISTR the driving trailer seconds (and maybe other 'Gloucester' stuff) were actually painted at Swindon. (Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera when I was eight years old, but that freshly applied Malachite was wonderful!)

Edited November 21, 2016 by Miss Prism

[Chris Higgs]

Ah, yes, thanks Chris. That explains a lot. (The link in #254 didn't work for me yesterday when I tried it.) With regards to 'Gloucester mis-interpreting the painting spec', ISTR the driving trailer seconds (and maybe other 'Gloucester' stuff) were actually painted at Swindon. (Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera when I was eight years old, but that freshly applied Malachite was wonderful!)

 

Where is that shot in #254 taken? Looks to me like the back of Gloucester shed, but I suppose it could be Swindon as well.

 

Chris

[Miss Prism]

Dunno, Chris. All I know is that Gloucester had too much painting work at the time, and Swindon helped out. (The freshly-painted DTS pic in Haresnape's British Rail Fleet Survey 8 is at Swindon.)

 

I'm totally confused now! Who 'owned' the painting spec - Swindon or Gloucester?

[dibber25]

Dunno, Chris. All I know is that Gloucester had too much painting work at the time, and Swindon helped out. (The freshly-painted DTS pic in Haresnape's British Rail Fleet Survey 8 is at Swindon.)

 

I'm totally confused now! Who 'owned' the painting spec - Swindon or Gloucester?

 

It seems a whole bunch of BR Official photos of W55000 were taken at Swindon so that may well have been where it was painted., too. The painting spec would surely have been part of the official BR order? Painting at Swindon would explain the fact that the 122s and the 120s were the same 'malachite' shade when they were new. (CJL)

[Pedro32]

Some nice samples on display at Warley this weekend. Though I didn't manage to catch the blue and grey model running, just with its lights on.

 

036 by Pedro Hill, on Flickr

 

037 by Pedro Hill, on Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[dj_crisp]

Looks very smart

[BR(S)]

Some nice samples on display at Warley this weekend. Though I didn't manage to catch the blue and grey model running, just with its lights on.

 

036 by Pedro Hill, on Flickr

 

037 by Pedro Hill, on Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Peter

 

I know we're only getting a glimpse there as it's between the other units, but the Regional Railways livery doesn't look as washed out as it did in Dapol's picture.  Here's hoping . . . 

[keefer]

looks like a blank 121 on the right too

[Andy Y]

Dapol are aware of several decoration issues with this one; the green should be darker and there shouldn't be white trim to the steps but the shape looks very good to me. When I get one I would paint the interior floor a darker colour so it's not as evident that it's as high as it is.

 

[Budgie]

Very nice, but (and I'm sure this has been said before):

 

If they can make single-unit railcars, why can't they make 3-car units?

[Chris Higgs]

Dapol are aware of several decoration issues with this one; the green should be darker and there shouldn't be white trim to the steps but the shape looks very good to me. When I get one I would paint the interior floor a darker colour so it's not as evident that it's as high as it is.

 

 

In all the debate over liveries, the mechanism has hardly been mentioned. Was it really necessary to raise the floor to accomodate a mechanism to presumably power all wheels, but that only has to propel one coach along the track (two at maximum)? It may be preferable to Bachmann's honking metal blocks that impinge on the passenger space, but I would have thought a Black Beetle style powered bogie would have been quite sufficient.

 

I don't suppose dummy units are being planned?

 

Chris

[wombatofludham]

Perhaps the chassis has been developed to allow it's use in three car units.  Like a Class 116.

Hopefully.

[royaloak]

Why do they insist on having both tail lamps switched on on blue and blue/grey models?

They should only have one or the other on, in fact a lot of locos had a 3 position switch- drivers side, off, second man side so it wasnt possible to have both on.

 

The red does look nice and dim though.

[Gwiwer]

Dapol are aware of several decoration issues with this one; the green should be darker and there shouldn't be white trim to the steps but the shape looks very good to me. When I get one I would paint the interior floor a darker colour so it's not as evident that it's as high as it is.

 

 

 

..... and that fake destination which only applies to the heritage era and which should be in upper case and probably a different font for BR green days.

[Roy Langridge]

..... and that fake destination which only applies to the heritage era and which should be in upper case and probably a different font for BR green days.

 

Andy at Dapol has said on their digest "we want to supply decals for the headcodes and destination blinds rather than factory printing them onto the models" and asked for help with them.

See https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/class-121-122-aa/project-managers-blog/3455-decorated-samples-class-122 post 10.

 

Roy

[St Enodoc]

Andy at Dapol has said on their digest "we want to supply decals for the headcodes and destination blinds rather than factory printing them onto the models" and asked for help with them.

See https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/class-121-122-aa/project-managers-blog/3455-decorated-samples-class-122 post 10.

 

Roy

I don't seem to able to respond direct on the Dapol website, but for the headcodes it would be worth having a look at http://www.aardstorm-models.com/DecalsStdDMUHeadcodes.html (yes I know we shouldn't make models of models, but these look OK to my eyes).