Hornby P2

[DorchesterCastle]

Am I the only one thinking of a Garter Blue P2? It's technically the same period, plus it would make a better choice than the BR liveries.

Edited October 9, 2014 by DorchesterCastle

[melmerby]

Am I the only one thinking of a Garter Blue P2? It's technically the same period, plus it would make a better choice than the BR liveries.

Two tone grey?

A la Silver Fox etc.

http://www.goldenagemodels.net/LNER-Locomotives-A4-Class-OO-Gauge.html

 

Or single colour as with the "hush-Hush"

http://www.loveless.co.uk/wayback/2011/images/w1_images/LNER_W1_2_HD.jpg

 

Keith

Edited October 9, 2014 by melmerby

[WD0-6-0]

Just double checking. Are the P2s with sound all delivered to the country or is another batch of them due to arrive in a week or two?

Must be another batch because I'm still waiting.

Rhys

[JSpencer]

I wonder why Hornby has things delivered in batches. You would have thought the lot would be produced end 2 end, all ready within a week or so of each other, that they could all be shipped togethor.

[Andy Hayter]

You might think that, but consider how long it takes you to make up a working chassis. I know Hornby will have jigs to speed up the process, but tis is not going to be quick, and to expect say 500-1000 items to be ready in one week is I suspect what we would like to have and not the reality

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder why Hornby has things delivered in batches. You would have thought the lot would be produced end 2 end, all ready within a week or so of each other, that they could all be shipped togethor.

It always strikes me as illogical when shipping stuff over that huge distance because surely it's all made in one go?  To split production, change the production process to build something else and then change it back again sounds crazy (and expensive).  So are we seeing the first batch being airfreighted and then waiting for the rest off a ship or is there some deeper reason such as the ability to handle the quantity (seems unlikely as again costs rise) or maybe having the cash flow right?

 

Exactly the same has happened with 'Penrice Castle' (first batch sold) and presumably goes on with other Hornby models as well?

[Colin_McLeod]

Sending everything in one batch, means it all comes at the end. By sending the first lot out as soon as they are assembled it gets them into the shops quicker and payments from customers start to come in. Makes sense to me. Why wait for every last item to be made and assembled when money could be coming in from those already complete.

[The Stationmaster]

Sending everything in one batch, means it all comes at the end. By sending the first lot out as soon as they are assembled it gets them into the shops quicker and payments from customers start to come in. Makes sense to me. Why wait for every last item to be made and assembled when money could be coming in from those already complete.

True - but how much longer does it take them to make the second thousand or wahtever?  And when you consider how it appears the job is done in stages with all the decorated bodywork complete for the whole lot before the chassis is added what is the advantage apart from taking out a few hundred to airfreight?

[Andy Hayter]

maybe having the cash flow right?

I have considered that as well, but whenever you look at the published accounts, Hornby are always several million short of their revolving financial agreement.

I think therefore that there must be another reason and given that labour seems to be a major issue in China. I am driven to believe that it is the scheduling of labour to assemble the models that could well be the issue. I suspect the manufacturers are offering Hornby so many for week x, another amount for x plus 2, another amount for x plus 7 and so on. This may seem (and indeed be) inefficient but is the way to keep the maximum number of their customers on the hook and at least part satisfied. I see exactly the same with tradesmen here in France who will tender for work, start and then disappear for a few days, before coming back to do some more, then disappearing again, and so on. So two weeks work actually takes several months to come to completion.

[Ian Hargrave]

I have considered that as well, but whenever you look at the published accounts, Hornby are always several million short of their revolving financial agreement.I think therefore that there must be another reason and given that labour seems to be a major issue in China. I am driven to believe that it is the scheduling of labour to assemble the models that could well be the issue. I suspect the manufacturers are offering Hornby so many for week x, another amount for x plus 2, another amount for x plus 7 and so on. This may seem (and indeed be) inefficient but is the way to keep the maximum number of their customers on the hook and at least part satisfied. I see exactly the same with tradesmen here in France who will tender for work, start and then disappear for a few days, before coming back to do some more, then disappearing again, and so on. So two weeks work actually takes several months to come to completion.

Actually ,just like many UK tradesmen,if you think about it....interesting.

[Hroth]

Regarding this "batch" thing. it could be as simple as Hornbys freight handlers in China get stock from the various factories as they come off the production lines and stuff a container until its full.  Then they send it off.  So depending on speed of production, Hornby gets variable quantities of models with each shipping.  It also has the side effect of not putting ALL of a run of one model in one shipping; containers have been knowen to wash off ships...

 

But then again. What do I know? 

[bigwordsmith]

Having just got to thend of week 22 on what was scheduled to be a 10week build I wholly agree

[edcayton]

Surely it's worth making the first batch and seeing how it sells, rather than having them filling up shelves in Margate?

 

Ed

[teaky]

Doesn't that ignore the pre-orders Ed?  Pre-orders appear to have exceeded supply at present and many of them must pre-date the production runs surely?

[mikesndbs]

Hi all, new motor has arrived here, just waiting for a day off work so I can fit

[3737]

My motor arrived yesterday.

Swapping the motors is really a piece of ....,  errrm, a 5-minute job, but after mounting the new motor, the loco was still showing the same behaviour as before. I then saw that the pickup wires that come from underneath the chassis lay curled under the top weight that you have to lift to get the motor out, thus lifting the weight and maybe, with the screws tightened, this exerts some force on the wormwheel. I'm not sure, but this may have been the cause of the entire problem instead of a faulty motor. It may also pay to have a run with the chassis by hand after you have taken the old motor out. This will show you if your chassis runs freely, mine did.

After straightening up the wires under the weight I at first carefully ran my loco without the screws to see if it ran freely. I then tightened the screws and fortunately all was well. I had to cut off a tiny bit of the lower motor tag in order to prevent it from touching the metal chassis behind it. Do not bend the tags outwards too much, otherwise they won't fit into the body.

 

Those who have this problem of the loco not smoothly running away at start up may check the pickup wires under the weight, and slacken up the screws a bit and then run the loco, before buying a new motor.

Nevertheless I am happy with the new 5-pole motor in the loco and without the flywheel it may even behave better with DCC feedback decoders.

 

I have put a report and some photos on our Dutch forum:

http://forum.beneluxspoor.net/index.php/topic,36295.msg3221498651.html#msg3221498651

 

On the top photo the motor tag hasnot yet been cut off.

 

Leen.

Edited October 11, 2014 by 3737

[mikesndbs]

My motor arrived yesterday.

Swapping the motors is really a piece of ....,  errrm, a 5-minute job, but after mounting the new motor, the loco was still showing the same behaviour as before. I then saw that the pickup wires that come from underneath the chassis lay curled under the top weight that you have to lift to get the motor out, thus lifting the weight and maybe, with the screws tightened, this exerts some force on the wormwheel. I'm not sure, but this may have been the cause of the entire problem instead of a faulty motor. It may also pay to have a run with the chassis by hand after you have taken the old motor out. This will show you if your chassis runs freely, mine did.

After straightening up the wires under the weight I at first carefully ran my loco without the screws to see if it ran freely. I then tightened the screws and fortunately all was well. I had to cut off a tiny bit of the lower motor tag in order to prevent it from touching the metal chassis behind it. Do not bend the tags outwards too much, otherwise they won't fit into the body.

 

Those who have this problem of the loco not smoothly running away at start up may check the pickup wires under the weight, and slacken up the screws a bit and then run the loco, before buying a new motor.

Nevertheless I am happy with the new 5-pole motor in the loco and without the flywheel it may even behave better with DCC feedback decoders.

 

I have put a report and some photos on our Dutch forum:

http://forum.beneluxspoor.net/index.php/topic,36295.msg3221498651.html#msg3221498651

 

On the top photo the motor tag hasnot yet been cut off.

 

Leen.

 

 

Hi Leen,

 

As you know I am soon to do this swap.

 

Is it possible that you have photos showing the weight being removed and the wires under?

 

It would be a big help to see what can be expected?

 

Mike

[3737]

No, sorry Mike, I didn't take any pictures of the weight being removed, I wish I had now. But it is really quite easy. Once the weight's 2 screws  will be released (take them out e.g. with a pair of tweezers) and the small motor  clamp, also 2 screws, you just carefully move the weight away from the motor and then lift it up, just enough to release the motor. The pickup wires go top to bottom through a hole in the weight and you will see them disappear into a hole that leads to the pickup "cave" below the loco. When remounting the weight pay attention that they don't curl up under the weight, which may already have happened at Hornby's factory.

There is no other things than the wires to worry about, I even couldn't find capacitors, and there's only 4 screws involved in this operation..

 

I think in my case the weight rested on a curl of the wires, lifting it slightly up. I think as long as you take care for these wires it will all go by itself, good luck.

 

Leen.

Edited October 12, 2014 by 3737

[mikesndbs]

No, sorry Mike, I didn't take any pictures of the weight being removed, I wish I had now. But it is really quite easy. Once the weight's 2 screws  will be released (take them out e.g. with a pair of tweezers) and the small motor  clamp, also 2 screws, you just carefully move the weight away from the motor and then lift it up, just enough to release the motor. The pickup wires go top to bottom through a hole in the weight and you will see them disappear into a hole that leads to the pickup "cave" below the loco. When remounting the weight pay attention that they don't curl up under the weight, which may already have happened at Hornby's factory.

There is no other things than the wires to worry about, I even couldn't find capacitors, and there's only 4 screws involved in this operation..

 

I think in my case the weight rested on a curl of the wires, lifting it slightly up. I think as long as you take care for these wires it will all go by itself, good luck.

 

Leen.

 

 

Hi Leen

 

Thanks and no problem! I'll check the points you make, probably do a video on it to let others see.

Have you missed the flywheel affect at all with the new motor? I was looking into using capacitors (bit like stay awake) to keep mine smooth.

[mikesndbs]

Hi guys

 

I got fed up with the running this evening so stripped her down and removed the original motor, I was able to confirm that the chassis is very free running and only pick up friction is noticeable.

The motor outside of the loco displayed the same horrible 'snap into life' as it did inside.

Replaced with the Hornby X????? and now I have a very smooth running Cock indeed.

I did add two 10uf 63 volt non polarised capacitors however, over one point the engine does stumble a bit compared to the motor with flywheel.

If only the same flywheel could be fitted to the new motor, then we'd have a lovely mechanism indeed.

However I am not 95% happy.

The motor swap was not a drop in affair, the new motor is ever so slightly longer and had to use a small file to reduce the length on the plastic side of it.

All on video and I'd have it uploaded for you if I did not have to start work at 04:00 tomorrow.

 

So yes its worked, would love the flywheel as there is a bit of armature pole sticking out the back, but can't see how to do it just now.

 

Full report as time allows.

 

Night

[Mike70]

I finally got my Cock out this afternoon.

 

Gave it a quick run on the rolling road, while SWMBO went out shopping.

 

I'd given some serious thought to upgrading to the TTS version.

But after speaking to Rails on Saturday, it sounds like most of their allocation is sold out to pre-orders.

 

For £99 plus postage, R3207 is pretty good.  My only 'buts' are the plastic valve gear, 3 pole motor and lack of tender pick ups.

I'd have been willing to pay a bit more for something approaching the standard of the A3/A4's.

 

The posts about retro fitting 5 pole motors are interesting.

But I'm not sure I've got the nerve to tackle it.

[gr.king]

Another round of filling and smoothing completed on the P2 Bugatti front, more features added to it too. A couple of improvements made to the new plating on Earl Marischal's front and small corner patches inserted into the smokebox front:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2014 by gr.king

[3737]

Nice work, Graeme!

 

@Mikesndbs

 

Strange you had to use your file. Mine was a direct fit, OK maybe a bit tight.

At least it now runs OK!

 

Leen.

[gr.king]

Hi Leen,

 

It seems we have moved on somewhat since we were discussing the Proscale P2 kit a few years ago! Do I understand correctly that you have put a Smokey Joe motor into your P2? If I have misunderstood then I must apologise -  my ability to read your modelling notes in Dutch on the Benelux forum is much poorer than your outstanding ability to use the English language.

[Blandford1969]

Another round of filling and smoothing completed on the P2 Bugatti front, more features added to it too. A couple of improvements made to the new plating on Earl Marischal's front and small corner patches inserted into the smokebox front:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, this really shows that the engine can be converted into the others, and that Hornby could do the others. The modelling is lovely, are you planning on altering the cabs?