Lynton & Barnstaple OO9 Loco from Heljan

[AlfaZagato]

I didn't see any contact, nor evidence thereof.    I only had a chance to run it for maybe 15 minutes today.   I might have time for more running tomorrow.   The cowcatchers on mine seemed to be turned up a bit, too.

[Roy Langridge]

On mine it was the flanges contacting the plastic at track joints. No issue with the cow catchers. 
 

Roy

[Floreat Industria]

I've been fancying one for some time but the price, possible faults and radius needed have put me off. Rails selling them at £129 and Hattons saying they will negotiate 10 1/2" radius finally made me order one and it came today.

 

The last thing I wanted was bits dropping off and getting lost so I took the body off and had a good look at the drop links. One was working very nicely and nowhere near getting caught. The other one was wobbling all over the place and could not be bent or kept away from the rest of the motion. I found that the pin holding the top of the drop link is a force fit and I removed it with my fingernails! I presume a tiny bit needs filing from the pin so it will go in just a litle bit further and stop the wobbling. On taking it out (with no force needed) the pin holding the other end dropped out from where it is attached to the centre driving wheel. On examining it with a magnifying glass I found that it is a splined force fit but the splines are only about 1mm long so no wonder so many motions have been coming to pieces. I put the pieces in a tiny zipper bag and also removed the other non-sloppy side and the pin also came straight out so in it went into another little bag. The pins are so small you can hardly see them. Perhaps re-assembly with the tiniest bit of instant glue in the hole would cure the problem but I will not be re-attaching them in the near future until I have put a bit of thought into it.

 

The loco happily pulls a couple of Peco coaches round my perfectly flat Roco 10 1/2" radius curves at a scale speed but the pickups need adjusting. Only the bogies seem to be picking up properly. I'm happy with it at the price but it isn't a patch on my Bachmann loco for quality.

 

 

 

   

[Nile]

You'll find the driving wheels will need a good clean before they pick up reliably.

[rockershovel]

I do like the video, what a shame that such a characterful model should be attended by such problems..

[fezza]

Mine are still causing a little frustration, however much I like them.  The one that runs stickily in reverse has not improved through more running in.  Another still regularly derails on points, while on other occasions it passes thorough fine.  The third has developed a pronounced waddle and rubbing noise - I've no idea why despite close inspection. None run as well as my Bachmann Baldwins.  There are clearly multiple issues with these Heljan locomotives - fix one problem and another seems to appear.

 

My best runner is a ROCO 0-6-0t bought for £99 in a set - and that included two wagons, a circle of track and a controller too!  If only ROCO would take an interest in British outline.  They are absolutely outstanding.  

Edited January 29, 2020 by fezza

[Roy Langridge]

On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 17:12, fezza said:

Mine are still causing a little frustration, however much I like them.  The one that runs stickily in reverse has not improved through more running in.  Another still regularly derails on points, while on other occasions it passes thorough fine.  The third has developed a pronounced waddle and rubbing noise - I've no idea why despite close inspection. None run as well as my Bachmann Baldwins.  There are clearly multiple issues with these Heljan locomotives - fix one problem and another seems to appear.

 

My best runner is a ROCO 0-6-0t bought for £99 in a set - and that included two wagons, a circle of track and a controller too!  If only ROCO would take an interest in British outline.  They are absolutely outstanding.  

 

I am suffering similar frustrations. I finally have my new 009 layout sufficiently built to test and my Manning Wardles all regularly derail on points. They are Peco mainline points and the leading pony truck will pass through ok sometimes and then another time tries to take wrong-road. I have concentrated on trying to resolve the issue with one to start with (Lew), but no joy. There seems to be sufficient springing on the pony truck, the wheels are turning and the pony trucks appear to have plenty of movement both side to side and up/down and the cow-catchers are clear of the track. Yet, on every facing point there is a distinct click as the pony truck reaches the point blades and, as said, occasionally goes wrong-road.

 

I think that, if we take the example of a left hand point,  the right-hand wheel is somehow connecting with the right-hand point blade (i.e. not the one in use). Anybody else had this problem?

 

I have three (188, 759 and 761) and would love to get them running well. My Bachmann Baldwins all run perfectly.

 

Roy

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I think that, if we take the example of a left hand point,  the right-hand wheel is somehow connecting with the right-hand point blade (i.e. not the one in use). Anybody else had this problem?

 

 

@fezza @Roy Langridge
Roy, it’s the pony truck flanges and b2b, see points 2 & 3. Take them out and hold one tread in the drill and file it to take off the sharp edge, then turn round and do the other side. Don’t press hard or you may damage the wheel, you just want to round off the sharp knife-edge.
 If that doesn’t solve it then pull off the wheel on one end and use a rotary tool or a file to take 0.2-0.5 off the axle length and reassemble. That cured it in all mine. 
Full details in post below  

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Pre Grouping fan]

13 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I am suffering similar frustrations. I finally have my new 009 layout sufficiently built to test and my Manning Wardles all regularly derail on points. They are Peco mainline points and the leading pony truck will pass through ok sometimes and then another time tries to take wrong-road. I have concentrated on trying to resolve the issue with one to start with (Lew), but no joy. There seems to be sufficient springing on the pony truck, the wheels are turning and the pony trucks appear to have plenty of movement both side to side and up/down and the cow-catchers are clear of the track. Yet, on every facing point there is a distinct click as the pony truck reaches the point blades and, as said, occasionally goes wrong-road.

 

I think that, if we take the example of a left hand point,  the right-hand wheel is somehow connecting with the right-hand point blade (i.e. not the one in use). Anybody else had this problem?

 

I have three (188, 759 and 761) and would love to get them running well. My Bachmann Baldwins all run perfectly.

 

Roy

 

Opening out the centering springs of the pony trucks is one thing that's been mentioned a few times. Or releasing the screw that holds them to the chassis. 

I think sometimes the springs are too hard on the pony frame and because of the fine flanges the ponies don't follow the point and the wheels end up riding over the rail when the drivers negotiate the point.

 

Ive got similar issues. I own a first batch model of YEO which doesn't have self destructing valve gear, that's just about OK and own a black LEW and also have friend's SR livery TAW as well to get it working ok. 

 

With a tweak to the springs on TAW its almost perfect, occasional click when going over a 12inch radius point but almost never derails. LEW is bad and is trying my patience, one cow catcher has come off and one motion bracket isn't far from falling off. Not not even looked at couplings. 

[fezza]

Yes I have lost patience with the ongoing problems. You don't realise how poor these are until you dig out your Roco stock and compare. Heljan quality may have been acceptable in the 1970s but not now. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

After being furloughed off from work, over the last week I've been trying to get 3 Manning Wardles working properly for the first time. The models I have are a batch 1 Yeo, a Friend's batch 2 SR TAW and a plain black batch 3 LYD.

 

Ive tried some of the methods written up on here but nothing seemed to work so after a lot of experimenting and testing I came up with my method of fixing these things. 

 

Firstly, the side springs have been opened right out so they don't contact the pony moulding at all over its whole swing. Mine seem to be glued in place on LYD and TAW so I decided to leave them in place. I also flattened out the pickups as much as possible. As I think they are part f the overall problem on these chassis. 

 

Secondly adding weight help massively during experimenting so as a proper fix I bent a scrap of lead up and glued it in place above the axle. The edges were chamfered to clear the pickups if they come into contact. 

When rebuilding I back the screws off by as much as a turn to ensure there's plenty of movement. These few basic things improved running massively. 

Hope these help anyone else still having issues with their locos. 

 

This last picture shows an observation I made when all 3 were apart. The pony mouldings of LYD (left) and TAW (right).

The screw holes are different sizes, now I'm not sure what Heljan are playing at here as both these models use the same MK2 chassis. I then noticed YEO which came from the much failed first batch has mouldings with the smaller hole. Consistancy is not Heljans strong point it seems.

[PaulRhB]

Well two of those are in the previously suggested list

I’ve also subsequently added lead to the ponies like you too as it helps with the rounded off flanges to keep them from riding up. I also slack off pivot screws like you on most models as I find it’s a common problem with poor tracking. 
Did you round off the flanges as I found that the slightest curve into a point caused them to intermittently catch and ride up, we found this on two layouts. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

On 13/03/2019 at 20:07, PaulRhB said:

 

1. Inside of outside frames gently ground out with mini sanding drum in a dremel to increase pony swing, done very carefully or the plastic melts. This stops the frames pushing the wheel over on 12” points. 

 

2. Pony wheels axle ground back 0.2mm so the wheels are 10.3mm over the outside faces this gives a BtoB of 7.3mm

 

3. Flanges on pony wheels spun on the lathe, (a drill will do), to take off the sharp edge.

 

4. Pony side springs opened out so they only make contact just before maximum swing. 

 

5. Pony pickups flattened so all weight is on the main drivers. 

6. ‘liquid lead’, or small strip, glued to pony truck to increase weight. 
 

7. top bar of cow catcher removed to allow pony to drop more on changes of gradient.

 

8. Slack off pony truck screws to allow more movement, truck boss may benefit from being reamed out slightly to allow tilt.

So an updated compilation of fixes that have improved running. 
 

1. Inside of outside frames gently ground out with mini sanding drum in a dremel to increase pony swing, done very carefully or the plastic melts. This stops the frames pushing the wheel over on 12” points. 

 

2. Pony wheels axle ground back 0.2mm so the wheels are 10.3mm over the outside faces this gives a BtoB of 7.3mm

 

3. Flanges on pony wheels spun on the lathe, (a drill will do), to take off the sharp edge.

 

4. Pony side springs opened out so they only make contact just before maximum swing. 

 

5. Pony pickups flattened so all weight is on the main drivers. 

6. ‘liquid lead’, or small strip, glued to pony truck to increase weight. 
 

7. top bar of cow catcher removed to allow pony to drop more on changes of gradient.

 

8. Slack off pony truck screws to allow more movement, truck boss may benefit from being reamed out slightly to allow tilt.

Edited June 3, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Roy Langridge]

Given my lathe and Manning Wardles are in two different places at the moment and travel between them is not an option, could somebody please let me know the axle diameter of the pony trucks? I want to make up a jig to hold the wheel set in the lathe to take of the edges. Given I have so many to do, I thought that seemed a sensible thing to do. 
 

Thanks,

 

Roy

Edited April 7, 2020 by Roy Langridge

[Nile]

2mm.

[rockershovel]

On 11/11/2014 at 16:05, Loconuts said:

Hi Paul, I don't know much about the prices of Bemo or Roco, however having purchased all of the MMI range with a few spare I do disagree with the blummin expensive statement.

It depends on which end of the market you are coming from, the 4mm end and yes they look expensive from the 7mm end they are not considered expensive.  This is a 1/4 scale model, not HO.  Look what you have to pay for the Blackstone HOn3 models, I believe it is around the same price as the MMI ones and they still sell very well.

I stated that they were about the same length as a British 7mm scale 4-4-0 tender loco, for a while my K-28 stood in front of a Martin Finney 'Bulldog'.  The K-28 cost me at the time £290, the 'Bulldog' sold for over £2000 pounds.

I agree the sound decoders in the first K-27's were rubbish and I now have Tsunamis fitted to the locos.  But the detail and finish is superb and I have not had a bad runner.

Also the gap between each introduction was such that you could save up between each one.  I don't suffer from my eyeballs being bigger than my wallet as many modelers in this country do, you know the ones, I want one of those and one of those etc.  Also I have nevered wanted something for nothing, if it was too expensive I will walk away.  Having built Locos for other people I have had to deal with this type of person and rather than agreeing to their price I have walked away.

No all things considering the MMI range was fairly priced, double the projected Heljan price and you would be in the MMI price range but you are paying for a 009 (4mm) Tank Engine which would be half the loco in 1/4 scale.  Also this is a projected price by Heljan, memories of the Lionheart 7mm scale 45XX which had a projected price of around £800 came in around the £1200 and yet it still sold.  If it is a good model then people will buy it, rubbish model then you can pick one up at discounted prices.

 

Loconuts 

 

I’ve just had my MMI locos out for a check and service. Both have Tsunami sound and DCC and they are very impressive. They attracted a lot of favourable comment at the club, where they could have an outing on the test track. I don’t regard them as expensive, for what they are. 

[PaulRhB]

On 11/11/2014 at 08:18, PaulRhB said:

Too expensive? No but blummin expensive nevertheless and needed a bit spending on a replacement sound unit too

My original quote above cleared up that it’s about perceived value  if you want it and have the disposable income to afford it it’s up to you. Much like there are plenty of posts about the problems with the MW’s making them expensive! I just come at it from the angle that it’s a lot cheaper than a professionally built etch kit and the 10 mins to sort the problems is a lot less than the time to build, fettle and paint one yourself. I’d charge several hundred to build the Backwoods kit on top of the kit, if you can find it, they aren’t simple. So they are value for money to me simply because I like the prototype, nothing more complicated and I guess depending on your disposable income that line can shift significantly either way. 
 

Edited May 23, 2020 by PaulRhB

[hayfield]

On 19/08/2019 at 10:25, Nile said:

In stock now, and the green really is that light.

 

Its very difficult to tell colours from a photo especially in artificial light, the darker shade locos could perhaps have been painter in SR olive green which came in both light and dark shades

The lighter colour may be Malachite, which also came in 2 shades (pre & post war)

[fezza]

On the question of value, nearly £600 for 3 locos that are still unreliable (despite hours of tinkering) isn't good value even if you love the L&B as much as I do. I'd happily pay £300 for a L&B loco that ran flawlessly, but this one doesn't by a long way. 

 

Everyone has different views on what is acceptable running but you only realise just how bad these are when you run them alongside similarly priced European stock. For me unless a narrow gauge loco will crawl through points you can't run a narrow gauge layout in a way that looks like the real thing. That's why 009 is often frustrating unless you work really hard or use HOe continental mechanisms. 

 

I wonder if Bachmann would ever be brave enough to produce one in 0n30 ( or British equivalent)? It has just produced a trench Baldwin in 0n30... Very tempting...

[PaulRhB]

Apart from the pony wheels derailing all mine have run beautifully from the start and will crawl through Peco points without the pony pickups working too. I haven’t done anything to the drive side apart from stop the valve gear clashing so I suspect something is catching on that?

One of the reasons I persisted with the pony truck issues was how well they ran without them, easily as good as the Minitrains and Roco stuff. 

 

 

[fezza]

 

Great layout!

 

That's basically how mine run - but for me that's not exactly crawling. Compare with the current Roco 030t where you can accurately turn a wheel through a quarter rotation without any jerking, even though the wheels are smaller. And people complain the current Roco isn't as good as that of a few years ago... 

 

One can live with these locos but it's disappointing as other manufacturers have shown the technology exists to make them  much better.

[PaulRhB]

They do crawl too without jerking but I’ve not videoed that close up. Like Neil said somewhere oop thread cleaning the wheels removes the worst of the chemical black residue and then mine run really well shunting on clean track. I’ve had the Liliput, Roco and Bemo models and I really cant see any difference in performance, they all can stick with a bit of dirt as they aren’t compensated. 
The Bachmann Baldwin is also good but a tiny bit light so you have to watch loadings on gradients carefully. 

 

[fezza]

Hi Paul, Inspired by your enthusiasm for the loco, I spent even more time today on the worst of my three. With a little oiling of the motion and filing a trailing wheel there is a slight incremental improvement in reverse running. I will keep trying. 

 

The 'quarter wheel rotation' test is my standard - it was taught to me by a brilliant scratch builder many years ago and I still try to make it my standard for any major purchase. 

 

I think the problem is that they seem to vary so much - I tried three model shops for my third one before getting anything acceptable. One of my mates had one by mail order that would barely more at all. His replacement was still disappointing. 

 

In many ways its gratifying to hear people getting over the problems and ehjoying the loco. I'm still finding it frustrating as you can probably tell but I will not give up. 

[PaulRhB]

There’s no doubt the quality control has been rather poor but only one of mine has had any running issue and it’s wheels were black, I guess from the metal black, and it was cured by a quick run on the wheel cleaner. 
I was impressed by how slowly they’d run. I’ve had my hands on 8 of these including friends and although one went back it was the damage from ripping the pin out of the crank when it jammed that caused that. 
I use the Trix brass brush cleaner as it seems to polish them up nicely rather than scratching the wheels noticeably and I do it regularly, every day for a show. Poor running has been down to dirty track since. 

[Jeff Smith]

4 hours ago, fezza said:

I wonder if Bachmann would ever be brave enough to produce one in 0n30 ( or British equivalent)? It has just produced a trench Baldwin in 0n30... Very tempting...

I understand the commitment that many have for 009 but size and weight obviously favours larger scales.  I have to say that all the Bachmann On30 locos I have are excellent runners and have the weight to stay on the track nicely.  But having struggled to build a Baldwin 4-6-0 in O-16.5 the similar motion in 4mm would be tricky at best and quite a challenge to produce commercially.