Level crossing stupidity...

[ejstubbs]

46 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Manually checking the images would show a vehicle exceeding the speed limit (in this case) by 3mph at 4:00H - that's right 3mph over the limit @ 04:00H.

 

The time is immaterial, and the speed limit was exceeded.  Speeding is strict liability offence: the reason why the accused committed the alleged offence, or even their awareness as to whether or not they were committing an offence, is immaterial to the fact of it having been committed.

 

The only valid defence in such cases (barring arguments based on procedural errors) is to prove that the evidence of fact is flawed.  As has been pointed out more than once: if the person in receipt of the NIP believes that they have valid mitigating circumstances (rather than an actual defence against the alleged fact) then a process exists whereby that mitigation can be tested before a magistrate.  Most likely the result, if the mitigation is accepted, would be to adjust the penalty rather than expunging the offence altogether, given that strict liability applies.  If the accused has any sense they'll consult a solicitor, who can advise on the wisdom or otherwise of taking that route - which advice may well also take into account the accused's other circumstances e.g. likelihood of being banned from driving under the totting up rules.

 

However, this is heading way, way  so I'll leave it there.

[PhilJ W]

I received an NIP that was rapidly withdrawn before the 14 days. The reason was that the notices of a speed limit reduction from 40 to 30 had been put on the wrong stretch of road. The road in question was a short stretch of dual carriageway that about halfway along the speed limit changed from 40 to 30. It was decided to change the whole of the road to 30. However the contractors placed the notices on the existing 30 mph stretch. Furthermore they did not remove the existing 40 mph signs including one alongside the speed camera in question. I was preparing my case including a photo of the speed camera with the 40 mph sign alongside when they dropped the case. Another 'victim' had made a complaint and also taken it to the local paper. He was a lorry driver who rode his motorbike along that stretch of road every morning and was caught five or six times which would have totted up enough points to get a ban. 

[lmsforever]

18 hours ago, alastairq said:

There is no recourse to 'appeal' if the offence is proven. 

There is, however, something called 'mitigation!'

In other words, an offender would need to demonstrate to the Court that there was a valid reason for doing what they did.

Or, a valid reason for the Court's punishment to not be what would normally be expected.

I was to worried about my wife post op and for a long time after so went on course for the day at least I did not have to pay,The course is an excellent place to learn if you are driving correctly.I passed my test when 17 so maybe I had some bad habits but it still narked only being 3mph over limit and being done,

[PhilJ W]

3 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

I was to worried about my wife post op and for a long time after so went on course for the day at least I did not have to pay,The course is an excellent place to learn if you are driving correctly.I passed my test when 17 so maybe I had some bad habits but it still narked only being 3mph over limit and being done,

I had picked up a few bad habits that came to light when I took a refresher test so that I could drive my employers vehicles. One was crossing my arms when steering and the other was braking and declutching at the same time. The first I make a point of avoiding as if your arms are across the wheel when the air bag goes off it will smash your arm into your face. The second I still do sometimes but with modern ABS its no longer a serious concern but I still manage to remember not to do it most of the time. The test was a few years ago, I've been retired 14 years now.

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

I can't & I have far better driving qualifications than passing a basic car driving test.

 I may have trained the instructor who taught you those ''far better qualifications''...

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

that's right 3mph over the limit @ 04:00H.

 I cannot imagine what that drive's speedo was actually reading, to be 3 mph over the limit?

 

But, exceeding the speed limit is an absolute offence, no if's or but's. One mph over, and the offence is complete!  One doesn't have to attempt to drive absolutely on a given speed limit. [it's not a target]...

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, Titan said:

 

A chance to say your last goodbye which would otherwise be missed?  If they  get them straight in to the operating theatre before you arrive you may have missed your last chance to see them alive?  We all know how psychologically important close contact with friends/relatives are - it can make the difference between life and death in these circumstances.  Even if it is "most of the time"  you won't know that until after it is too late to do anything about it.

I've been told by ambulance crews with my wife in the back, to not bother rushing to follow them, for the very reason that it will take them quite a while to hand her over.

 

If you look back, I specifically said 'most of the time', because the majority of trips by ambulance aren't 'last goodbye' ones.

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, SamThomas said:

 

I am not condoning speeding & lets face it many, many of our speed limits realisticly could do with being revised - some up & some down.

I've never heard of a speed limit being revised up, invariably down! I've known roads that were 2 lane roads, built into 3 lanes each way, with full curbing and a much better surface and still get downgraded for speed.

[Hobby]

7 hours ago, SamThomas said:

As you showed little or no empathy for the circumstances of the member in question then I stand by my remarks. In future please feel free to ignore my posts if you don't like the fact that I do sometimes bite back.

 

I actually said: 

 

I agree that lmsforever was extremely unlucky

 

So I was showing sympathy, but obviously not as much as you wanted. But judging by your replies you obviously have a bee in your bonnet about speed cameras so we are unlikely to have a constructive discussion about them so no point in carrying on, which is just as well as we are well off topic!! 

[Budgie]

7 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Yes, lets have more police patrols on the road - a higher profile will go a long way into improving driving standards & detection vehicles &/or drivers that should not be on the roads.

If there were more police patrols there would be far less high speed chases & less need for the amount of very high performance police cars which are not cheap to run, but lets not go down that road.

The extra costs will be offset by the long term savings of dealing with "accidents", not only the direct causes but the after effects.

 

That's not true. There are many videos on youtube entitled "Idiots in Cars" and suchlike, which show the situation in North America, where there are far more police patrols on the road than there are in the UK. I suggest that we should start banning the worst offenders from driving for life. If that means they lose their jobs, well, they should have thought of that first.

[alastairq]

5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I've never heard of a speed limit being revised up

 Several places in my area, have had lower speed limits raised.....

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Budgie said:

I suggest that we should start banning the worst offenders from driving for life. I

 The problem with any driving ban [in the UK...Police are not  supposed to shoot offenders here]....is a matter of enforcement.

The likelihood of getting caught.

Mind, once caught, the vehicle is also impounded for being uninsured for the driver.

There are folk local to me who have only just been discovered and caught..having driven for 50 years or more, without a licence, or even, insurance, Mot, etc. Most recent case the lad was over 75 years old.....never been caught, up until now...and it took a chance discovery using technology to catch him, too.

Typical of a farmer, too tight-fisted to pay up...

[SamThomas]

Generally,

 

I am well aware that speeding is "an absolute offence". However, it is probably the easiest offence to detect & prove.

 

3mph over the limit @ 04:00H is not as serious as higher speeds at busier times of the day. 3mph is just over a needles width on an analogue speedo. Digital speedo's take a while to settle as speed varies.

What is wrong with a bit of common sense in these cases ? If I go even a second over my tacho time it is also "an absolute offence", but it is classed as an infringement.

 

IMHO there is far too much emphasis on on automatic speed detection & not enough effort put inor other offenses - something additional police patrols would go some way to address. The extra costs could be funded by the revenue they generate. I am also of the opinion that the authorities look at the revenue created by automatically generated scameras as a useful cash cow.

 

To reiterate, I'm not condoning speeding, just think that competant police officers would do a better job.

 

On the flip side there are a number of schools that do not have lower speed limits (24h or timed) - I would be all for a police patrols taking drivers to task (educationally) for driving past a school at the "normal" 320 or 40 mph - something even the best technology cannot get even close to.

 

Have a pleasant evening everyone.

 

 

[Ian Smeeton]

I hesitate to jump in to the 'Level Crossing Stupidity' thread with anything approaching the thread topic,

 

but the mating season is starting.

 

 

There are better places to start a fight over a bird!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[LMS2968]

Why did the pheasant cross the line?

[jcredfer]

30 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

Why did the pheasant cross the line?

 

'cause he wasn't properly trained

 

[Ian Smeeton]

1 minute ago, jcredfer said:

 

'cause he wasn't properly trained

 

 

One of these was!!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Several places in my area, have had lower speed limits raised.....

Or did you just decide to ignore them? 

[boxbrownie]

45 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

Why did the pheasant cross the line?

Because he saw his flat mate……uurghh 

[rab]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Several places in my area, have had lower speed limits raised.....

One of the main roads in Plymouth was reduced to 30

a few years back; its now being raised back to 40.

i wont go into the reasons, as that would be against

forum rules.

[jcredfer]

2 hours ago, Ian Smeeton said:

I hesitate to jump in to the 'Level Crossing Stupidity' thread with anything approaching the thread topic,

 

but the mating season is starting.

 

 

There are better places to start a fight over a bird!

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

You can have her, mate, but just remember she's from the wrong side of the tracks and the rest of the family think you are putting your neck on the line...

 

 

 

[newbryford]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Several places in my area, have had lower speed limits raised.....

 

Round my way, a number of 20mph signs have been removed in favour of the previous 30.

Partly because they were erected without proper paperwork and it's also difficult to do even 20mph because the road is so narrow/full of parked cars.

 

[newbryford]

On 03/03/2022 at 10:50, martin_wynne said:

Here you go, NSL applies ahead:

 

 

Martin.

 

On a similar theme, this is a view from a 20mph road. 

https://goo.gl/maps/2ZPsooYULKJZZyF67

[PhilJ W]

47 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

 

You can have her, mate, but just remember she's from the wrong side of the tracks and the rest of the family think you are putting your neck on the line...

 

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

4 hours ago, Ian Smeeton said:

 

 

Playing chicken is just so appropriate on this thread.