No Decorum Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Where does Tuna fit into this for those of us cannot afford tinned salmon? Kevin The sound of tuna and brown lacks a certain something, don’t you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Livery is never an easy subject, in any industry.., even Fish So which shade of Salmon..? https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/images/0000c7-699.jpg Edited April 9, 2017 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted April 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2017 Livery is never an easy subject, in any industry.., even Fish So which shade of Salmon..? https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/images/0000c7-699.jpg Are we talking paste or mouse, Scottish Salmon, Canadian Salmon, wild or farmed, viewed in sunlight or artificial light... oh dear I think I have a headache coming on where are my tranquilisers nurse...? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2017 Are we talking paste or mouse, Scottish Salmon, Canadian Salmon, wild or farmed, viewed in sunlight or artificial light... oh dear I think I have a headache coming on where are my tranquilisers nurse...? Kevin Pacific coast wild Alaskan salmon for me.. none of this farmed European stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted April 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) I am sure that this pre-grouping postcard is one most people have seen - for those that haven't - (oh dear there's a Birdcage coach on there - that's too relevant for a RMweb thread) Edited April 10, 2017 by phil_sutters 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted April 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2017 Pacific coast wild Alaskan salmon for me.. none of this farmed European stuff. What farmed European stuff? Rod-and-line caught in the morning in the Wye, and served up for a latish lunch in a pub within walking distance of the river for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I am sure that this pre-grouping postcard is one most people have seen - for those that haven't - (oh dear there's a Birdcage coach on there - that's too relevant for a RMweb thread) SE&C Cl D 440 no 145 on Hastings Car Train.jpg Excellent picture and I am pleased to see we are back to topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffBird Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 The BR versions looks like it will take a 'polish'. I presume some would have got a varnish in their latter years? In he Middleton Press book "Guildford to Redhill" there are several Pictures of Birdcage sets on the line, several around 1951/52 with a C class and a T9. Most interesting is one in 1957 of a GW 43xx in unlined green hauling a 3-coach set. Would this have been rfepainted into SR green by then or still in Crimson? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I am sure that this pre-grouping postcard is one most people have seen - for those that haven't - (oh dear there's a Birdcage coach on there - that's too relevant for a RMweb thread) SE&C Cl D 440 no 145 on Hastings Car Train.jpg Hello Hornby. Lovely D Class SECR. Make lots of dosh...... Hello. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 In he Middleton Press book "Guildford to Redhill" there are several Pictures of Birdcage sets on the line, several around 1951/52 with a C class and a T9. Most interesting is one in 1957 of a GW 43xx in unlined green hauling a 3-coach set. Would this have been rfepainted into SR green by then or still in Crimson? Unlikely (m)any ever got B.R. green ............. most, if not all, would have got broken up in red ......... er ... of some indeterminate wishy-washy faded shade ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Unlikely (m)any ever got B.R. green ............. most, if not all, would have got broken up in red ......... er ... of some indeterminate wishy-washy faded shade ! Some sets did end their days in green, but as most images of them are in black and white it is difficult to differentiate latter day liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Anyone here able to colourise images? I see lots of war photos getting colourised a lot lately, would certainly help with livery queries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted April 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) Anyone here able to colourise images? I see lots of war photos getting colourised a lot lately, would certainly help with livery queries The danger is that, as we often see in these threads, authentic colour is sometimes hard to pin down. Even if you have a preserved piece of kit there's no guarantee that all the paint mixes were the same across the whole class or that restorations along the way have been true to the original. Once someone has colourised a mono print there is a possibility that it will be taken to be an original colour photo. The mono print will have had many shades of grey in its make-up. One then has to overlay the appropriate colours, which is not as straight-forward as applying a colour and relying on the grey to shade it, as the grey will mix with the colour and change it. My understanding is that contemporary postcards and coloured illustrations, like the postcard above, are mono photos that have been hand-coloured. The artists then had the advantage of having the real thing that they could copy. Even then their colour may not have been an exact copy, as colour saturation is often boosted to increase the postcard's appeal. Colour photo prints from earlier years, right through to the 1980s, can deteriorate, giving inaccurate renditions of the colours originally taken. It depends a lot on the type of paper and the chemicals used. So be wary of taking colour schemes from those, unless they have been professionally reproduced. Even then, I have seen colour photos in books that have clearly been taken from faded or colour-shifted prints. I personally wouldn't want to paint a WW1 soldier model based on a colourised image. Equally it can look wrong to copy the colour from a full-sized uniform. There is a 'scale colour' effect, which roughly means that colours sometimes have to be toned down to look right in a smaller scale. While one wants to get as close as possible to the right liveries for your companies and periods, consistency and an overall authentic appearance seem to me to be the keys. There are plenty of colour guides out there and most railway companies have their restored stock available to be seen on heritage lines. In the vast majority of cases the restorers have painstakingly researched the liveries and can be relied on to have correct shades to copy. Then you may need to adjust them to look right in the smaller scale of you models! This is all my personal and totally untrained opinion, but based on many years of model painting - both railway and military. (Edited to include the para. about colour photos.) Edited April 13, 2017 by phil_sutters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Some sets did end their days in green, but as most images of them are in black and white it is difficult to differentiate latter day liveries. There was at least one green Birdcage set regularly operating in the Tonbridge area, maybe on the Redhill line, but I only kept detailed records of locos in those days and took no photos with them in so can't be specific. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Some sets did end their days in green, but as most images of them are in black and white it is difficult to differentiate latter day liveries. The obvious thing - and I believe it HAS been done ....... is to model in monochrome ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 The obvious thing - and I believe it HAS been done ....... is to model in monochrome ! What we read here is nothing compared to warship modellers debating the wrong shade of grey.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted April 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2017 Some sets did end their days in green, but as most images of them are in black and white it is difficult to differentiate latter day liveries. Dad took this photo of diesel railcars in BR days. He says that they are all in different liveries! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 There was at least one green Birdcage set regularly operating in the Tonbridge area, maybe on the Redhill line, but I only kept detailed records of locos in those days and took no photos with them in so can't be specific. Some sets ended their days in Southern Railway green but it is believed none were ever repainted S. Region green. Chris Knowles-Thomas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerron Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 A taste of things to come? Makes the Bachmann models look like a bargain,even allowing for gostude prices! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/D-S-KIT-BUILT-EM-GAUGE-RAKE-of-3-SE-CR-SUBURBAN-COACH-by-GODDARD-LAWRENCE-nj-/332163229706 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 A taste of things to come? Makes the Bachmann models look like a bargain,even allowing for gostude prices! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/D-S-KIT-BUILT-EM-GAUGE-RAKE-of-3-SE-CR-SUBURBAN-COACH-by-GODDARD-LAWRENCE-nj-/332163229706 They are a bargain at that price. Even accounting for the fact it's Gostude selling them. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Some sets ended their days in Southern Railway green but it is believed none were ever repainted S. Region green. Chris Knowles-Thomas That's what is said, but they looked BR(SR) green to me. Some lasted well into the era so why would they not be painted along with others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) That's what is said, but they looked BR(SR) green to me. Some lasted well into the era so why would they not be painted along with others? These coaches were already considered to be "on-the-way-out" by the time regional colours began to re-emerge and the likely alternatives would have been further re-varnishing or withdrawal. B.R Southern Region continued the SR tradition in being extremely parsimonious with new paint, and secondary stock with a limited life-expectancy seldom, if ever, received any. The ins-and-outs of re-varnished SR malachite being easily mistaken for BR(s) green were discussed at some length in the thread on Hornby's rebuilt ex-LSWR stock, which was at a similar stage in its service life by the mid-1950s. There may be justification in producing these models in green with BR markings, but it would almost certainly be incorrect to describe them as "BR green". John Edited April 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 If repainted, would it have been at Lancing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) If repainted, would it have been at Lancing? Quite possibly, but very unlikely to have happened, and here's one reason why. Repainting Southern Region loco-hauled stock into green commenced in July 1956 and, for main line corridor stock, was conducted with some speed. The entire Bulleid fleet had been done by the end of 1958, with the Maunsells completed a year later and inroads being made into the region's BR Mk1s at a sufficient rate to leave just two 3-sets in crimson and cream by the spring of 1962. Painting of new and existing EMU stock would have continued throughout the period, too. Quite aside from any considerations of policy, economy or short anticipated service life, I doubt there'd have been capacity to repaint even an odd vehicle of Birdcage stock, let alone whole sets. John Edited April 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted April 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2017 The obvious thing - and I believe it HAS been done ....... is to model in monochrome ! Fifty shades of green? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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