SECR Birdcage Coaches

[Dunsignalling]

I would say the Hornby Ex LSWR are more relevant introduced last year and £15 cheaper for the comparable unlined crimson versions.

The comparison I intended to make was between the recent Hornby Mk1s and the Dapol (ex-Airfix) LMS vehicles. Not Hornby Mk1s and Bachmann Birdcages.

 

Hornby's prices for their "better" coaches have (thus far) been consistently lower than Bachmann's, but that's not much help if the prototypes you want are only offered by Bachmann!

 

The only question to be asked of oneself is "do I want a r-t-r Birdcage set badly enough to pay the best part of £200 for it"

 

John

Edited July 15, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[bigherb]

The only question to be asked of oneself is "do I want a r-t-r Birdcage set badly enough to pay the best part of £200 for it"

 

John

They would be essential for my area but until I see if my pre order price is honoured then I might pass, and even then unless they find there way into the bargain bins it will only be the one three coach set as I don't consider them worth £15 more than the Hornby Ex LSWR coaches.

[Fireline]

I have pre-ordered the SECR set, on the basis that they were meant to be in SECR Lake livery. If "SECR Lake" continues to mean "some odd shade of brown", I am afraid that one order will get cancelled.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Hopefully they'll perform better than Hornby's ex LSWR coaches... As I say, I'm cool with the price, but I'm expecting perfection.

[JSpencer]

These are essential for me and I have 2 rakes on order (different eras). I have had to drop some equally expensive due in soon items to make way for them.

Edited July 14, 2017 by JSpencer

[SRman]

I have pre-ordered an SECR liveried set of three, but budget constraints mean that I have not ordered my planned BR liveried set. I'll have to take pot luck on those still being available when I decide I can afford them. I am looking forward to having a decent set of coaches for my two SECR liveried C class locos and also the forthcoming Hornby H (yes, I have pre-ordered one of those too!).

Incidentally, I looked up the definition of 'lake' as a colour, and it is described as a translucent coat usually with a reddish base. On a different but slightly related tack, I was researching details for my London Transport F Stock and Q Stock sets and apparently the earliest (pre-LT) liveries included trimming of the panels and doors in what is described as lake. The sources went on to say that the exact shade of lake was unable to be determined from any of the material available - no colour photography and any artistic representations are just that, representations. Existing preserved stock couldn't provide any clues either, at least at the time of printing. I would imagine that the same would apply to the SECR livery to a large degree. Any paint samples that have survived would still be suspect after this amount of time has passed.

[jjb1970]

These look lovely, not cheap but very nice indeed. The customary 15% discount will take some of the sting out of the price, that said Bachmann's coaches do look poor value next to Hornby's recent high end coaches. If you're not desperate for these then try waiting to see if they appear in bargain clearances in a few months, the risk is you'll miss out but if the price really is too high for you then it's worth a punt.

[Wickham Green]

These look lovely, not cheap but very nice indeed. The customary 15% discount will take some of the sting out of the price, that said Bachmann's coaches do look poor value next to Hornby's recent high end coaches. If you're not desperate for these then try waiting to see if they appear in bargain clearances in a few months, the risk is you'll miss out but if the price really is too high for you then it's worth a punt.

Don't forget Hornby's closest equivalent ( the 58' L.S.W.R. rebuilds ) used an existing chasssis so there was little tooling cost to be covered - that chassis was a lot simpler than the forthcoming birdcages will be ( steel angle trussing ) - Hornby didn't have to worry about how to build a 'bidcage' into the roof - none of Hornby's offerings carried any sort of lining ...... so I think it's fair to expect the 'birdcage' coaches to cost a wee buit more ! ............................ anyway, at 60' you're getting about 3.5% more coach for your money.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Wickham Green

[Paul.Uni]

The dates of release have been updated on the Bachmann website. Dates are:

• BR - Sep/Oct
• SR - Oct/Nov
• SECR - Nov/Dec

[Mr chapman]

How come these aren't boxed as a trio like the Farish versions? I can see people ending up with odd coaches left over. As a side though the roxey kits build into nice models of you want the shorter stock

Edited July 20, 2017 by Mr chapman

[Oldddudders]

How come these aren't boxed as a trio like the Farish versions? I can see people ending up with odd coaches left over. As a side though the roxey kits build into nice models of you want the shorter stock

With the apparent resistance to £60-ish per vehicle, a set of three would be £180. That figure would deter even more buyers, as people expect a loco with sound at that price, not "just" coaches.

[GNR Dave]

Agreed. But most people will be buying them in sets of three. Also, a three pack would probably be sold with a discount over the individual price. I would have thought that with 'box shifter discount' on top, a price of £150 for the three pack not unreasonable.

Edited July 20, 2017 by GNR Dave

[GNR Dave]

Out of interest, has a price been set for the N gauge set ? If price comparison between locos across the gauges is anything to go by, our N gauge chums may be in for a bit of a shock.

[grahame]

With the apparent resistance to £60-ish per vehicle, a set of three would be £180. That figure would deter even more buyers, as people expect a loco with sound at that price, not "just" coaches.

That is the RRP - how many will actually pay that?

 

Assuming no price increases, on launch with the traditional discount, I'd expect the price to be paid will be nearer to £50 to £53 per coach.

 

That's still potentially eye-watering for some/many but that seems to be where we are heading. I guess there will be some resistance at any price (depending of individuals personal financial circumstances) - even if they were half the price - as there will always be those that find even the cheapest prices for model railway equipment beyond their pocket. There'll just be a few more baulking at the higher price.

 

G

[trevor7598]

Your money not only buys a complicated livery on the SECR & SR versions, but also tooling variations

to reflect the changes made to the coaches over their long lives.

No they are not cheap, but quality comes at a price.

[Edwardian]

There are worse models of SR constituent coaches that will cost more.  I suspect that with these Bachmann coaches, the consumer will get what he pays for.  I have no complaints regarding the pricing, and I say that as someone who may struggle to afford them!

[RFS]

Hatton's prices are £50.96 for the BR versions and £55.21 for the SR/SECR versions.  These appear to be fixed prices not estimates.  The 3-set for N gauge has an estimated price of £102. 

[Ian Hargrave]

That is the RRP - how many will actually pay that?

 

Assuming no price increases, on launch with the traditional discount, I'd expect the price to be paid will be nearer to £50 to £53 per coach.

 

That's still potentially eye-watering for some/many but that seems to be where we are heading. I guess there will be some resistance at any price (depending of individuals personal financial circumstances) - even if they were half the price - as there will always be those that find even the cheapest prices for model railway equipment beyond their pocket. There'll just be a few more baulking at the higher price.

 

G

 

Well we've been here before,not so very long ago with the pricing of the new Thompson vestibule coaches which my nearest retailer refuses to stock because he fears they will not sell.

 

This is a shame because they are very much, if you will pardon the phrase,a "high end" product,as the forthcoming SECR coaches will be.......simply superb.Sadly,like it or not,the world has moved on...and pricing of fine quality models has moved accordingly,something that does not gain easy acceptance.

[Paul.Uni]

Hatton's prices are £50.96 for the BR versions and £55.21 for the SR/SECR versions.  These appear to be fixed prices not estimates.  The 3-set for N gauge has an estimated price of £102. 

That would be the RRP-15% for the OO gauge Birdcage coaches. The N gauge ones don't have a RRP yet.

[Dunsignalling]

Well we've been here before,not so very long ago with the pricing of the new Thompson vestibule coaches which my nearest retailer refuses to stock because he fears they will not sell.

 

This is a shame because they are very much, if you will pardon the phrase,a "high end" product,as the forthcoming SECR coaches will be.......simply superb.Sadly,like it or not,the world has moved on...and pricing of fine quality models has moved accordingly,something that does not gain easy acceptance.

Now there's a self-fulfilling prophesy if there ever was one.  The only thing it guarantees is that anybody who does buy any will patronise one of his competitors.

 

What is becoming clear, is that the manufacturers are increasingly producing products for people who are able and willing to pay for quality.

 

Stimulating spending on non-essentials by people who either don't have any money or are determined to hang on to what they do have, is a much harder job.

 

Just for the record, I've bought two Thompsons and will probably get a couple more. The Birdcages? Undecided. Not convinced I'd ever run them, but the price isn't an issue.

 

 

John

Edited July 20, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[No Decorum]

Just my penny’s worth (and I shall need every penny), I shall be ordering Southern and SECR rakes. The money will be found, probably at the expense of something else. Should these sell and Bachmann knock out another, renumbered, SECR set and a Wainwright D, the money would be found for those too. One of Maunsell’s enhanced 4-4-0s would be a treat. In the meantime they will trundle around behind a C in the appropriate livery. I anticipate that the meantime is likely to be very long.

 

For something as special as these, they are worth the price to me and (“just for the record”) I am content enough with Hornby’s neat Mk. Is.

 

It would be a crying shame if Bachy put a foot wrong as Hornby did with its stiff-wheeled Maunsell rebuilds.

[Edwardian]

Just my penny’s worth (and I shall need every penny), I shall be ordering Southern and SECR rakes. The money will be found, probably at the expense of something else. Should these sell and Bachmann knock out another, renumbered, SECR set and a Wainwright D, the money would be found for those too. One of Maunsell’s enhanced 4-4-0s would be a treat. In the meantime they will trundle around behind a C in the appropriate livery. I anticipate that the meantime is likely to be very long.

 

For something as special as these, they are worth the price to me and (“just for the record”) I am content enough with Hornby’s neat Mk. Is.

 

It would be a crying shame if Bachy put a foot wrong as Hornby did with its stiff-wheeled Maunsell rebuilds.

 

Apart from the stiff wheel issue, I believe that the Hornby ex-LSWR rebuilds were accurate and beautifully rendered.  Quite worth the money and an example of what SR ex-LSWR branch stock to modern RTR standards should be.  If I were a Grouper, I'd have them. 

 

As it is, I'd go for a second set of the SE&CR liveried Birdcages in due course.  I think that 2 3-sets would make quite a prototypical formation, and, like you, I'd go for a suitable 4-4-0 if released!

[bigherb]

It would be a crying shame if Bachy put a foot wrong as Hornby did with its stiff-wheeled Maunsell rebuilds.

No guarantee Bachmann coaches have had their fair share of running problems.

[No Decorum]

Apart from the stiff wheel issue, I believe that the Hornby ex-LSWR rebuilds were accurate and beautifully rendered.  Quite worth the money and an example of what SR ex-LSWR branch stock to modern RTR standards should be.

Yes indeed and that is what makes the poor running so infuriating! Solutions have been offered here but I’ve wrecked some of the bogies doing the wrong thing.

[Mr chapman]

No issues with the price. It's just a shame us N gaugers are getting Wellington brown instead of dark lake. But ANY pre grouping stock is a win for me And I know that I will be getting a complete set. Anyone not happy with Bachmann's price, send me a message for a kit build quote I can tell you now you'll be looking at more than £50 a coach...