wainwright1 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 The background does not look like the Hawkhurst Branch and I do think that those tanks were ever used on there. RB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 The background does not look like the Hawkhurst Branch and I do think that those tanks were ever used on there. RB Must admit I did have my doubts - and having just read the new Cuckoo Line book I'd guess that could be a likely candidate : it's stuffed full of pictures of Pull & Push sets mixed in with 'ordinary' stock - a rare phenomenon elsewhere ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_schmidt1 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Its looking north from Argos Hill tunnel toward Rotherfield on the Cuckoo line. Similar picture here The last 2 coaches look like a ex-LBSCR pull push set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Its looking north from Argos Hill tunnel toward Rotherfield on the Cuckoo line. Similar picture here The last 2 coaches look like a ex-LBSCR pull push set. hmmm ....... I passed that way a few days ago .... difficult to tell there'd ever been a railway - though the cutting's probably still there among the trees ! ............................ it's called "progress" I believe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium it's-er Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 Bachman have put the Birdcage stock up on their website today - here http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=438 I'm curious - what colour is SECR dark lake? It looks like a very dark blue? What Pantone number is it? John Storey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Check post 392. It's a dark maroon/brown colour. Don't know the Pantone ref. but definitely not blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Check post 392. It's a dark maroon/brown colour. Don't know the Pantone ref. but definitely not blue. Deep lakes can look quite blue ................ depends how the sunlight hits the water ............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 £64.95 for a coach that is in the standard range? Even if thats RRP whats a lot more than coaches used to be as an open release. £40 got people talking and £50 ish for the Inspection Saloon was thought it was due to it being more or less a one off tooling. I think demand is there from the Southern region as it polls very highly, but question how expensive that desire is for a rake of these, and worry about the future for other ranges if prices increase at this rate year on year. If production costs are pushing up prices that much this hobby will get massively expensive as demand exists and even second hand quality stock is snapped up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2017 According to the Bachmann page here: http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/details_archive.php?id=332 "Birdcage Coaches Unveiled": "The coaches operated in three coach sets, each comprising of a Brake Composite, Composite and Brake Third." The Brake Composite has 3rd and 2nd class accommodation, the Composite has 1st and 2nd class, and the Brake Third has, well, 3rd class. It looks to me that a set of one of each would be a correct 3-car set. What I'd like to know is, would a 3-car set of these be appropriate to go with my pre-ordered Hornby Wainwright-liveried H-class 0-4-4t loco? They weren't all confined to 3-car sets. For example, here's a hop-pickers' special comprising a 6-car set with multiple luggage vans - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/SECR-tender-engines/i-Xwvd2Jc/A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 This again ? The cost is what it is. I don't think Bachmann are profiteering. The Chinese workers need to be paid a living wage, and the Pound has lost around 20% against the US Dollar in the last year. These points are made repeatedly on many threads on this site. It's your call, but I still think that these models are worth the price, and of far better quality than I, and I think most modellers, could achieve from a kit. I pre-ordered mine from Rails (a set of SECR and a set in Southern olive) for £55 plus change per coach. That's £340 with postage for 6 carriages. I doubt I could get one carriage kit professionally built and painted for that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) £64.95 for a coach that is in the standard range? Even if thats RRP whats a lot more than coaches used to be as an open release. £40 got people talking and £50 ish for the Inspection Saloon was thought it was due to it being more or less a one off tooling. I think demand is there from the Southern region as it polls very highly, but question how expensive that desire is for a rake of these, and worry about the future for other ranges if prices increase at this rate year on year. If production costs are pushing up prices that much this hobby will get massively expensive as demand exists and even second hand quality stock is snapped up. I wonder how many of the people who have been pushing for higher quality will actually buy these higher quality and therefore much higher priced coaches. I have mentioned it before, but British models have always been cheaper than their continental equivalents and people modelling continental expect to pay higher prices for better quality. It does beg the question on how much of the cost is production and how much is development, when you see Dapol turning out old Airfix coaches for a fraction of the price. I think a lot of people would have still been very happy just to have SECR coaches at that standard of quality. There needs to be a reality check on new models being produced, to see if prices could be reduced a lot, just by making a few compromises, and whether that might actually result in more models actually being bought. If people get used to the higher prices, and they are accepted as the norm , then it makes alternatives much more desirable for those who are less will to pay the price. Talking of SECR, anyone interested in the ex steam railmotor conversions, one articuted, and one non articulated but push pull? Edited July 13, 2017 by rue_d_etropal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 £64.95 for a coach that is in the standard range? Even if thats RRP whats a lot more than coaches used to be as an open release. £40 got people talking and £50 ish for the Inspection Saloon was thought it was due to it being more or less a one off tooling. I think demand is there from the Southern region as it polls very highly, but question how expensive that desire is for a rake of these, and worry about the future for other ranges if prices increase at this rate year on year. If production costs are pushing up prices that much this hobby will get massively expensive as demand exists and even second hand quality stock is snapped up. The problem is that while wages in China have been rising steadily over the last few years, median incomes in the UK have been falling. I will let others work out exactly the blame for this lies, but will just say that people vote for government they deserve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I was skeptical of the price at first but they look like they're going to be exquisite, and as they're only a set of 3 it won't batter the bank account too much. it is wonderful to be able to add some South Eastern stock to my South Eastern layout, long may the South Eastern trend from Bachmann continue! LBSCR carriages next please Edited July 13, 2017 by GreenGiraffe22 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2017 They weren't all confined to 3-car sets. For example, here's a hop-pickers' special comprising a 6-car set with multiple luggage vans - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/SECR-tender-engines/i-Xwvd2Jc/A Hard to be certain, but they look like the earlier, shorter Birdcage stock to me. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I wonder how many of the people who have been pushing for higher quality will actually buy these higher quality and therefore much higher priced coaches. I have mentioned it before, but British models have always been cheaper than their continental equivalents and people modelling continental expect to pay higher prices for better quality. It does beg the question on how much of the cost is production and how much is development, when you see Dapol turning out old Airfix coaches for a fraction of the price. I think a lot of people would have still been very happy just to have SECR coaches at that standard of quality. There needs to be a reality check on new models being produced, to see if prices could be reduced a lot, just by making a few compromises, and whether that might actually result in more models actually being bought. If people get used to the higher prices, and they are accepted as the norm , then it makes alternatives much more desirable for those who are less will to pay the price. Talking of SECR, anyone interested in the ex steam railmotor conversions, one articuted, and one non articulated but push pull? The Dapol LMS coaches wouldn't be anywhere near the price currently being asked if they were new releases. They can only sell them that cheap because the tooling paid for itself decades ago and must, for accounting purposes, be worth nothing by now. The nearest modern releases to a (fairly) similar standard are the Hornby Railroad / Not Railroad BR Mk1s and they are nudging thirty quid a pop nowadays. The whole scene has changed with the attention of the bigger manufacturers turning towards the return to be made from one or two release sequences of items that would not have been deemed viable subjects even a decade ago, followed by the tooling being stored away for a few years to allow the demand to build up again, with no absolute certainly it will ever be re-used. Sales Volume is not what they are chasing at all, "Leave 'em wanting more" is the mantra, to avoid the need to flog off over-production at hefty discounts. Successive years of doing that have caused some of their customers to hold back from purchasing new releases in the expectation that it is "normal". Plenty of people who don't have a Bachmann full-liveried SECR C or any of the Hornby Pecketts can testify as to what is the new reality, as (presumably) could the person who bought the S/H Hornby City of Wells at the £170 Hatton's were asking for a couple of days ago. Price new, IIRC, was under £100. John Edited July 13, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_schmidt1 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 They weren't all confined to 3-car sets. For example, here's a hop-pickers' special comprising a 6-car set with multiple luggage vans - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/SECR-tender-engines/i-Xwvd2Jc/A The 60ft coaches were all confined to 3 car sets. They were all built as type C 3 coach sets or Trio sets. Only the ones converted to or put into Pull Push sets were different. The Shorter 50ft and 54ft coaches made it into slightly bigger sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) If you £900, you can get a rake of shorter coaches on Ebay right now painted by none other than our Coachman. If I won the lottery.... Edited July 13, 2017 by JSpencer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 £64.95 for a coach that is in the standard range? Even if thats RRP whats a lot more than coaches used to be as an open release. £40 got people talking and £50 ish for the Inspection Saloon was thought it was due to it being more or less a one off tooling. I think demand is there from the Southern region as it polls very highly, but question how expensive that desire is for a rake of these, and worry about the future for other ranges if prices increase at this rate year on year. If production costs are pushing up prices that much this hobby will get massively expensive as demand exists and even second hand quality stock is snapped up. The RRP for the inspection saloon at the release of the first batch was £59.95, the same as the current RRP for a BR Crimson Birdcage carriage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2017 If you £900, you can get a rake of shorter coaches on Ebay right now painted by none other than our Coachman. If I won the lottery.... At that price they seem unlikely to have gone already, but I can't find them. Any chance of a link, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_R Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 At that price they seem unlikely to have gone already, but I can't find them. Any chance of a link, please? May be these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D-S-KIT-BUILT-EM-GAUGE-RAKE-of-3-SE-CR-SUBURBAN-COACH-by-GODDARD-LAWRENCE-nj-/332163229706?hash=item4d5678a80a:g:FPYAAOSwuxFY1CUq Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2017 May be these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D-S-KIT-BUILT-EM-GAUGE-RAKE-of-3-SE-CR-SUBURBAN-COACH-by-GODDARD-LAWRENCE-nj-/332163229706?hash=item4d5678a80a:g:FPYAAOSwuxFY1CUq Thankyou! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 The nearest modern releases to a (fairly) similar standard are the Hornby Railroad / Not Railroad BR Mk1s and they are nudging thirty quid a pop nowadays. I would say the Hornby Ex LSWR are more relevant introduced last year and £15 cheaper for the comparable unlined crimson versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 They weren't all confined to 3-car sets. For example, here's a hop-pickers' special comprising a 6-car set with multiple luggage vans - https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/SECR-tender-engines/i-Xwvd2Jc/A As has been pointed out before, those are NOT the 60' birdcage coaches in question - only ONE 60' set was augmented ( to six coaches if I remember rightly ) and was disbanded after not very many years to make a couple of Pull & Push sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 The 60ft coaches were all confined to 3 car sets. They were all built as type C 3 coach sets or Trio sets. Only the ones converted to or put into Pull Push sets were different. The Shorter 50ft and 54ft coaches made it into slightly bigger sets. Sorry, I hadn't caught up with your post before writing my last one ! .......... I'm not sure (m)any of the 54' vehicles got into longer sets before they were shipped to the Isle of Widget but the longer sets - none of which were identical so far as I know - were made up of a combination of 44', 45', 46', 50' & 51' coaches in later S.R. days ( probably shorter ones in earlier times ) : you'll need to get your soldering iron out for any of those 'long' sets I'm afraid. ( YES, mine IS poised - but there are one or two other jobs to finish first ! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 £64.95 for a coach that is in the standard range? Even if thats RRP whats a lot more than coaches used to be as an open release. £40 got people talking and £50 ish for the Inspection Saloon was thought it was due to it being more or less a one off tooling. I think demand is there from the Southern region as it polls very highly, but question how expensive that desire is for a rake of these, and worry about the future for other ranges if prices increase at this rate year on year. If production costs are pushing up prices that much this hobby will get massively expensive as demand exists and even second hand quality stock is snapped up. Can't help noticing that immediately below this thread the'y're showing an advert for a 'mere' wagon for thirty three quid ...................................... hmmmmmm ................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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