mikeharvey22 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 To dispense with the through electrical connection it looks like pickups will be needed on the intermediate cars and possibly the unpowered driving car if the table lights are to be maintained. Hopefully hooking up to the lighting circuit boards will not be too complicated. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 [edit] Totally agree with Graeme. Fiddly so use common sense. I would not recommend frequent coupling and uncoupling [edit] That sums up well what I was trying to say. Unless you have a decent sized fiddle yard to store the assembled set I would not recommend this model because physically handling the assembled, snake-like set between layout and off-layout storage is tricky. That said, apart from the coupling mechanism and the separately fitted pair of horns at each end, the model seems fairly robust as amost all detail is moulded on rather than separately fitted. I'm sure this model will be very well received by some. There is a lot to like. The packaging is intuitive and easy to open, the model seems to be assembled with considerable care (better than most Dapol and maybe even better than some Farish), and the body, lights, decoration, and running are all very good. However, for me the model is a "near-miss." The impracticality of the couplers and difficulty in assembling and handing the whole rake guarantees that mine won't be run much. To me, being able to run trains is the whole point of owning them, so to not being able to easily run this set kind of spoils it for me. While I'm thrilled that another manufacturer has enterred the British outline N scale market, in retrospect I'd actually have rather seen Hornby (sorry, but to me "Arnold" just doesn't have the same brand cachet) jump in with a Class 40! Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am sure there are ways round the storage problem ( if it is a problem?), I immediately recall a manufacturer some years back offered tube like articles fitted with track inside into which a whole train could be run when one end was connected to a suitably accesable section of tra on the layout, I have no idea who made them though. However it will surely be easy enough to improvise a fix for the storage & handling problem, pop along to a DIY warehouse and check out the rigid plastic piping, avaialble in various diameters which I am sure could be utilised as a means of storage and transportation of the coupled unit. Personally i am not in the least bit 'put off' by the negative reponse the couplings have caused. To me they seem too resemble those used on the Hornby 5 BEL (in 00) which are quite easy to handle ( granted they are a little larger probably!). A further point those who are familiar with the Bachmann 00 EMUs the 4 CEP and 2 EPB will be aware that the coupling system on those units use a coupling bar which incorporates electrical connections, on first use these seemed to be a little awkward but one soon gets used to handling them and they did not seem to attract much adverse comment on here. nt Just a little footnote re the ARNOLD Brand, Arnold were one of the N Gauge Pioneers back in the 60s, I have bought lots of their products and have found that they have had superior qualities to some of the 'competition' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I find it odd that someone would not recommend a model to others because they find it tricky and fiddly. That seems to presuppose that everyone else will find it that way as well, and seems to generate an aura of negativity about it. Normally you would not recommend something, or draw attention to it, because of actual issues or deficiencies with the model (such as its scale accuracy, bad assembly or hopeless running qualities) rather than the reviewers personal problems with handling it, although if it was a kit they might draw attention to the skill level required to assemble it. Sure, draw attention to your problems with it but I personally don't think that a good reason to not recommend it. Fortunately, this model doesn't appear to have such problems. As I mentioned, earlier there are some good points about it as well as a few less than great ones. And, several members have made suggestions as to how any problems with using the couplings can be eased by storing as a complete train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Well, then find it odd then, Grahame, though from the other "couple it together and leave it" comments in this thread (and in another forum dedicated to N gauge) that I have read (and perhaps you as well), I am sure I am not the only one who has had "personal problems with handling it." I would certainly recommend this model to skilled modelers. However, not everyone has your vigor, skill and apparent dexterity and I have raised a valid point about this model which may be useful to that less nimble audience. Indeed, they might very well find my experience with it to be more helpful than the comments that you have supplied. You seem to have presupposed that others will not have the same issues with it that I have, so we are both guilty of presupposition. I don't see my comments casting an "aura of negativity" about the model. They have simply pointed out that it is a difficult model to use compared to some others and if my comments therefore sway someone's decision to purchase a different model that is easier to use which they think will give them more pleasure (and perhaps lead them to further involvement in this hobby), then my comments have done some good. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted September 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am sure there are ways round the storage problem ( if it is a problem?), I immediately recall a manufacturer some years back offered tube like articles fitted with track inside into which a whole train could be run when one end was connected to a suitably accesable section of tra on the layout, I have no idea who made them though. However it will surely be easy enough to improvise a fix for the storage & handling problem, pop along to a DIY warehouse and check out the rigid plastic piping, avaialble in various diameters which I am sure could be utilised as a means of storage and transportation of the coupled unit. Personally i am not in the least bit 'put off' by the negative reponse the couplings have caused. To me they seem too resemble those used on the Hornby 5 BEL (in 00) which are quite easy to handle ( granted they are a little larger probably!). A further point those who are familiar with the Bachmann 00 EMUs the 4 CEP and 2 EPB will be aware that the coupling system on those units use a coupling bar which incorporates electrical connections, on first use these seemed to be a little awkward but one soon gets used to handling them and they did not seem to attract much adverse comment on here. nt Just a little footnote re the ARNOLD Brand, Arnold were one of the N Gauge Pioneers back in the 60s, I have bought lots of their products and have found that they have had superior qualities to some of the 'competition' Most of us have changed the couplings on the Bachmann OO scale EMU's to Kadees or Profi couplings for use on Star Lane as they are a real pain in the back side on the layout when setting up at shows let alone in N scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I've not deemed that they are, or are not, tricky/difficult to couple together, so I haven't 'presupposed' anything but I have suggested how to make it easier when coupling. You may or may not be the only person finding it difficult, but in my mind you have made a value judgement based on your problem with it in 'not recommending' it to everyone (whether or not they will also have a problem with it). IMO that is unnecessary and an invalid call, and consider that it puts an aura of negativity around the model. Let's leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 In my original post (#146) after I received my model, I also made a helpful recommendation about how to assemble the set more easily. I think your suggested approach in post #147 about how to do it was useful and affirmed my helpful recommendation. Or is thinking it was useful and affirming a value judgment by me? At the end of the day, every assessment (or opinion) about a model involves a value judgment. Some opinions can be supported or contradicted by measurement (e.g. scale dimensions), others can't (e.g., it runs well, it runs poorly, or yes, it is or it isn't difficult to couple together). Whether something is more or less important compared to something else is where the value judgment lies and every magazine review is full of them. I value the ease of using a model and there was nothing wrong with me not recommending to some people it on that basis. If you want to say I've put an aura of negativity around the model, that is applying your own value judgment. I shall respect your right to assert it but I think it is as invalid as you think mine. And so yes, let's leave it at that. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I love Southern Electrics and to possibly encourage the introduction of rtr N scale 3rd rail emus I purchased the Bachmann 00 scale models in the hope that they might some day be 'shrunk'. Subsequently, I have been delighted by the Graham Farish 4 CEP and I now have all N scale versions . I also have the00 Hornby 2 Bil and 2 Hap (you never know!). I ordered the Hornby/Arnold brown/orange Brighton Belle with some great excitement as soon as it was announced. I anticipated ordering the blue/grey and any other subsequent versions too. Having seen the Blue Pullman (another iconic mu), I was anticipating great things. In the beginnings of N scale the only models available to us were 'crude' compared to today's products. We bought what was available but with one eye onthe Continent and the USA where more accurate scale models were being introduced. Since then British manufacturers been encouraged to strive for more fidelity to prototype and realism and they have responded to our requests by providing modelers/collectors with more accurate and exquisite products which we have embraced and enthused about in the model media and through the internet. I am now bewildered and disappointed to see that the Brighton Belle has very noticeable 'cut-out's in the solebar. In 2014! Why? As far as I know no other current British N scale MUs has these cut-outs nor indeed has any passenger stock of similar length. I consider this a retrograde and unnecessary step backwards and I really hope that Hornby/Arnold will recognise this and will not continue this compromise in any future possible models. I have very reluctantly cancelled my order and no, I am not prepared to screw my eyes up and look at it only from three feet away! Please excuse my 'cross' posting! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I do not know whether the Arnold Brighton Belle needs the cutouts or not for typical British radius 1 curves (9 inch radius) but I am conscious that Arnold still seems to cater for the continental radius 1 (just over 7.5 inch radius). On the other hand it may sit down lower over the bogie rather than being perched on top of them, like the Mk 1 coaches in the Farish catalogue pictures. Either way from the photos I have seen the cutouts do not seem at all obvious, but. I shall reserve final judgement until I have coupled mine up carefully and run it on my layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozwarrior Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I do not normally post on forums but I have just received mine four days to Australia and I would recommend it to anyone. I don't model much N and do so to run on a club layout. If you need to screw your eyes up at three feet do you normally look at trains from six inches? I hope Hornby / Arnold do nothing to change it as it's obvious why they have done it. It runs really well with good slow speed and what impresses me most is the fact that the power car has a central motor but still has the table lights. I now have both the N and 00 versions and am glad I do. Regards, Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 So..... How does the model actually run? Any videos or more detail from owners. Anyone been brave enough to pop the shell off and have a look? Cheers,Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I am now bewildered and disappointed to see that the Brighton Belle has very noticeable 'cut-out's in the solebar. In 2014! Why? It looks like these could be fairly easily filled in with thin pieces of microstrip, whilst still allowing the model to traverse reasonably tight curves. If 7.5" is a continental normal then I completely understand why they have been deemed necessary - that's pretty tight - we British outline modellers are used to more lenient curves of 9" or 10.5". Though they definitely are noticable, and if it was me I'd want them filled. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It looks like these could be fairly easily filled in with thin pieces of microstrip, whilst still allowing the model to traverse reasonably tight curves. If 7.5" is a continental normal then I completely understand why they have been deemed necessary - that's pretty tight - we British outline modellers are used to more lenient curves of 9" or 10.5". Though they definitely are noticable, and if it was me I'd want them filled. Cheers, Alan The cut outs could easily be filled. There are 8 of them per car and 5 cars. Personally, I think life's too short and I don't think they are that noticeable, but I completely understand others may wish more fidelity to the prototype. The track the model is sitting on in the pictures in post #146 is Unitrack 8.5" radius. The cutouts do appear to be needed for the wheels to clear on that radius. For 9" radius, it might be fine but it would be a near run thing. For continental 7.5" radius, they would be absolutely essential. Alan, after running in performance is fine and akin to the latest DMU offereings from Farish or Dapol. I did not think running in actually made much a difference as it ran well straight from the box. I experienced no problems running the 5 car set with the power car at the rear; that may be a benefit of the chunky couplings. Other owners may report better running, or worse. And I will let someone else take off the body and peek inside! A report on the N gauge forum by someone who fitted a decoder was that the body shell was a tight fit. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I am now bewildered and disappointed to see that the Brighton Belle has very noticeable 'cut-out's in the solebar. In 2014! Why? As far as I know no other current British N scale MUs has these cut-outs nor indeed has any passenger stock of similar length. I have to admit it does seem odd. The Farish 4-CEP has a pronounced solebar but no need for cut-outs. It also handles 9" curves as far as I know. Looking at some of the photos, the wheels look rather on the chunky and pizza-cutterish size. Compare to current Farish wheelsets. I wonder if the combination of coarser wheels and the need to run on tighter than UK R1 curves is what made the cut-outs necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2014 I wonder if Farish wheelset will fit in place of the Arnold ones (power car excepted)? The cut outs dont bother me too much as I am happy to infill them but understand that some will not want to have to modity a new model - i tend to cut / alter just about everything I get so dont expect htem to hold their value Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 THIS IS LOOKING RATHER LOVELY! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I have now unpacked mine and coupled it together sitting on the roofs on the length of straight track reserved for loading trains onto the layout. The couplings push together gently, and uncouple equally gently by slightly tilting the ends of the cars to disengage to underside of the clip. I had to do this as I had transposed the two First class parlours. I am not at all concerned about the solebar cutouts and probably will not be filling them in. The running is smooth and as quiet as say a Farish 150, and quieter than my Dapol 153. On the track the train looks convincing. My initial thoughts about the cab light are confirmed and I will find a way to reduce its impact when I have run everything in and can remove the driving cars to have a look inside. The exploded spare parts diagram shows specific parts for the cab and its lighting. The gap between the cars is smaller than a Farish 4CEP out of the box, but not as good as my Farish 4CEP where the Rapidos have been replaced with short Dapol fixed buckeyes, and the gangways are almost touching. One thing that really impresses me is that all of the table lights are steadily lit everywhere on the layout. No flicker at all. Surely my track cannot be so 100% clean to achieve that level of reliability even with 8 wheel pickup on the powered car, so there must be some electronic help in that circuit board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 43300 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Are the Rapido couplings on the ends just a push-fit into NEM pockets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I have to admit it does seem odd. The Farish 4-CEP has a pronounced solebar but no need for cut-outs. It also handles 9" curves as far as I know. Looking at some of the photos, the wheels look rather on the chunky and pizza-cutterish size. Compare to current Farish wheelsets. I wonder if the combination of coarser wheels and the need to run on tighter than UK R1 curves is what made the cut-outs necessary. I can shed some light on this. Due to their construction, the underframe on a (real) Pullman coach is narrower than that for example on a BR Mk1 by about a foot. Therefore there is much less clearance behind for the wheels. I had occasion a while ago to design an etched underframe for the old Farish Pullman coaches, and with either 2mm Finescale or Bachmann RP25 wheels of the correct diameter, was unable to manage anything that would go round a curve under 2' radius without putting cutouts into the solebars. (Farish did it by putting the wrong bogies on the coaches and using wheels that were too small in case you are wondering). Therefore I am not surprised at all that Hornby had issues with something that has to go around a 9" radius curve. Chunky wheels will only make it worse, but I do not think Bachmann wheels will solve it. Fill in the solebar cutouts if you have generous radius curves. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 THIS IS LOOKING RATHER LOVELY! As long as you assemble the unit in the correct order: Car No 88, 'Hazel', 'Doris', Car No 86, Car No.89. The shallower window (the kitchen) on the two first class cars should be next to the neighbouring 3rd class car. How difficult is it to remove the bodies, because from the look of the couplings the unit will only assemble correctly with the driving cars the opposite end to where they should be... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Does the formation work with Doris and Hazel transposed, or would the third class trailer be the wrong way round then? Alternatively a body swap between Hazel and Doris would fix it. My blue one seems to be correctly formed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Looking at the couplings in the picture, rotating 'Hazel' 180 degrees will couple it to 'Doris', and the kitchens will be in the correct places. Car No 86 will couple correctly to 'Doris', however, only Car No 88 will couple to Car No 86, when it should be Car No 89. Swapping either the two First Class bodies, or the two Driving car bodies should resolve the issue. I'll wait until I get my greasy mitts on the Umber/Cream version I have on order before deciding which option is the easier... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted October 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hello all, May be worth remembering that advertising shots are often composites or photoshopped from other images. I'd double check the orientation of couplings and cars when the models actually arrive before being sure that bodies need swapping... Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 These do look lovely models and I think Hornby/Arnold are to be congratulated especially given the "reasonable" price. I must admit that I did not notice the sole bar cut outs until it was mentioned and I am sure when on the track they are even less noticeable. Sadly I cannot justify either of these on HOLLERTON JUNCTION but I do hope they are a commercial success and encourages Hornby/Arnold to shrink some more of their models to British N Gauge. Kind regards Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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