Bachmann E4

[Robin Brasher]

I have run in and oiled my Southern E4. It ran very well on the Hornby Collector's Association's track at Broadstone. The track had third radius curves and curved points with transition curves joining the straight track and there were no baseboard joints. Hattons have told me that they have sold over 1,000 E4s. I am surprised at this as not many people will have pre-nationalisation layouts based in the LBSCR area. There were no Hornby Dublo trains running on the two rail layout but the chairman said that if everyone is happy that is all that matters. My LBSCR E4 arrived today from Hattons at 13:50 while I was out so I will collect it tomorrow. They arrived at the Swanage Station shop on Tuesday.

[Ozexpatriate]

Hattons have told me that they have sold over 1,000 E4s. I am surprised at this as not many people will have pre-nationalisation layouts based in the LBSCR area.

It's pretty.

[melmerby]

Ian Allan In Birmingham had 5 LBSC ones this afternoon, same price as other liveries they have - Still only £90

They still have some SR ones, but seem to be depleting fairly steadily.

Looks like Bachmann & the Retailers will be improving their cash flow with this one!

 

Keith

Edited May 21, 2015 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Hattons have told me that they have sold over 1,000 E4s. I am surprised at this as not many people will have pre-nationalisation layouts based in the LBSCR area.

How many have LNER layouts that could run a P2?

 

The manufacturers are going for locos that look good and are reaping the benefits.

 

Keith

[Edwardian]

Mr MacCormac - Well done for that.  I would never have imagined that precisely the sections needing to be replaced to back-date would be separate discrete components.  I wonder if there is otherwise a manufacturing logic to this or whether it does betoken a different model in the future.

 

In the meantime, it would seem to suggest that a relatively painless conversion  would be possible.  It also prompted me to wonder whether the wheel-sets can be replaced.  If so, a new body would get you an E3, with smaller wheels, or an E5 or 6 with larger; Brighton kept rigidly to the wheel centres and the trailing wheel diameter on all these Es.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Edwardian

[JSpencer]

I have run in and oiled my Southern E4. It ran very well on the Hornby Collector's Association's track at Broadstone. The track had third radius curves and curved points with transition curves joining the straight track and there were no baseboard joints. Hattons have told me that they have sold over 1,000 E4s. I am surprised at this as not many people will have pre-nationalisation layouts based in the LBSCR area. There were no Hornby Dublo trains running on the two rail layout but the chairman said that if everyone is happy that is all that matters. My LBSCR E4 arrived today from Hattons at 13:50 while I was out so I will collect it tomorrow. They arrived at the Swanage Station shop on Tuesday.

By 'eck! 1000 of them? That must represent at least a fifth of Bachmann's production.

[Robin Brasher]

My Southern E4 hauled nine coaches on the Purbeck Model Railway Group's track at the Stables, Godlingston Manor, last night. This layout had three foot radius curves and Peco large radius curves which is the ideal size for a model railway. I wish I had room for a layout this size at home.

[Robin Brasher]

Latest addition to my collection of pre-grouping locomotives and rolling stock.

[melmerby]

My Southern E4 hauled nine coaches on the Purbeck Model Railway Group's track at the Stables, Godlingston Manor, last night. This layout had three foot radius curves and Peco large radius curves which is the ideal size for a model railway. I wish I had room for a layout this size at home.

Just weighed my E4.

 

It comes in at 255g which is pretty good for a tank engine and quite a bit more than Bachmann's other recent 6 coupled offerings (Midland 1F tank and 3F tender etc.) which are no more than 200g

AFAIK the only other 'modern' RTR 6 coupled tank that betters it is Bachmann's 56XX which is 288g.

(However this pales into insignificance if you start looking at diesels. Bachmann's Cl 47 is 588g with 12 wheel drive! )

 

Keith

[Peter Bedding]

Mr MacCormac - Well done for that.  I would never have imagined that precisely the sections needing to be replaced to back-date would be separate discrete components.  I wonder if there is otherwise a manufacturing logic to this or whether it does betoken a different model in the future.

 

In the meantime, it would seem to suggest that a relatively painless conversion  would be possible.  It also prompted me to wonder whether the wheel-sets can be replaced.  If so, a new body would get you an E3, with smaller wheels, or an E5 or 6 with larger; Brighton kept rigidly to the wheel centres and the trailing wheel diameter on all these Es.

 

Unfortunately I have loaned my copy of Russell's Loco's of the SR so I cannot answer my own question, which is: "Can this model E4 chassis be used as an E1R?"

 

Full-length passenger trains on the ND&CJLR often comprised one loco and one coach, which must have widespread modellers' appeal. At different times the coach might have been an ex-LSWR, or Maunsell or Bulleid Brake Composite.  Gate stock of a lesser type was not unknown (ex Set 361?).The loco might have been a Class 2 2-6-2T, or E1 Radial or even something from the antique store (Adams 460 class 4-4-0).

 

There's many a wish list that can be dusted down to go in this direction.

 

PB

[Dunsignalling]

Unfortunately I have loaned my copy of Russell's Loco's of the SR so I cannot answer my own question, which is: "Can this model E4 chassis be used as an E1R?"

 

Full-length passenger trains on the ND&CJLR often comprised one loco and one coach, which must have widespread modellers' appeal. At different times the coach might have been an ex-LSWR, or Maunsell or Bulleid Brake Composite.  Gate stock of a lesser type was not unknown (ex Set 361?).The loco might have been a Class 2 2-6-2T, or E1 Radial or even something from the antique store (Adams 460 class 4-4-0).

 

There's many a wish list that can be dusted down to go in this direction.

 

PB

E4 about 3' longer than the E1R overall and the coupled wheelbase is the opposite way about (E1R: 7'6" + 7' 9", E4: 7' 9" + 7' 6") on top of that the E4 driving wheels are 6" bigger at 5' diameter, a size which does not match any of the other 6-coupled Brighton tanks.

 

All that might be addressed (as a d-I-y project) if one were clever enough to turn the chassis round, lose 12mm off the length and remount the trailing truck at the opposite end (always supposing there is a source of suitable 18mm wheels that would fit).

 

However, I don't think the Bachmann mechanism would fit inside an E1R - the E1s they were adapted from were basically overgrown Terriers and the larger E4 boiler was pitched 9" higher than that on the smaller loco.

 

All in all, if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here and it's a pretty good bet that Bachmann wouldn't either!

 

Building the Finecast E1R kit strikes me as a far easier proposition and, being more appropriate to my needs, I bought one in preference to the Bachmann E4.

 

John

Edited May 22, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[andyram]

Not read all of this thread. I bought one of these a few weeks ago, not had chance to run it yet, but heard a rumour of some running issues with this model. Has anyone found this?

[JSpencer]

GNR Dave - I suspect that the tooling used for the E4 would not suit its original configuration and it may not be possible to back-date the model to this livery. I believe Marsh chimneys were added - I guess that's what she's got - and maybe new boilers etc that altered the appearance? Someone with more knowledge of the subject than I (almost anyone), will doubtless correct these assertions if necessary.

By contrast they could forward date to Birch Grove Bluebell era.

 

The LBSC one has quite a few moulded differences compared with later versions.

 

The reverser is a SCREW type in the cab (2 of the later 3 are leaver reverse- early BR is screw)

Water feed on the later versions near the middle of the boiler

The coal rails are open on the LBSC one, closed on the other 3.

Whistle is on the cab roof, this it shares with the early BR version

There are two little oil fillers (?), one each side at the base of the smoke box saddle.

Later versions have blower pipe, various additional pipe work and small disc hand wheels in the back of the cab.

 

Other differences are,

the early BR one uses Ashford style smoke box door

 

The BR late and Southern versions are exactly the same in terms of fitted details, except of course the number plate on the smoke box of the late BR one.

 

 

Edited to correct some errors

Edited May 28, 2015 by JSpencer

[Robin Brasher]

I don't think there are any serious running issues with the E4. I ran in the LBSCR E4 on the Purbeck Model Railway Group's Corfe Viaduct layout with second radius points and a third radius curves. The radial truck derailed on a point after running in reverse for 20 minutes but did not derail again for the final 10 minutes. No derailments running forwards for half an hour. Then I put the Southern E4 on the opposite side of the layout and ran them both on the same track. The Southern E4 derailed twice on the same point during three circuits but caught up with the LBSR one after 5 circuits. The Southern E4's gears have bedded in. I tried them both on the other layout with three foot radius curves and Peco large radius points and they both ran very well. The LBCR E4 seems less prone to derailments than the Southern one.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Robin Brasher

[Andy Hayter]

Not read all of this thread. I bought one of these a few weeks ago, not had chance to run it yet, but heard a rumour of some running issues with this model. Has anyone found this?

 

A few people have reported problems of differing types - derailing, growling noise, jerky running in one direction or another, poor haulage power - for example.  A number of these problems seem to be down to track issues.  The vast majority seem to be very satisfied.

Of course if you are unlucky and do buy one with an issue, that is no comfort.

[Robin Brasher]

In any mass produced items you get some good ones and some bad ones. Some light oiling has sorted out the squeaks in my Southern E4. Perhaps Bachmann have remedied an faults with the LBSCR version as it came out a month later. The footplate is metal and this puts a lot of weight in the right place which gives good adhesion.

[DoverPriory]

In any mass produced items you get some good ones and some bad ones. Some light oiling has sorted out the squeaks in my Southern E4. Perhaps Bachmann have remedied an faults with the LBSCR version as it came out a month later. The footplate is metal and this puts a lot of weight in the right place which gives good adhesion.

I certainly do not want to pour scorn on Bachmann's E4s, Yes they do look good. I bought two. As I said earlier one was taken back because it was a poor runner and something wrong somewhere - not obvious from external inspection. The second (a Southern) is OKish  - it will try to stall at slow speeds where my little red spirit level (ex B&Q) tells me the track isn't PERFECTLY level. Some small strips of plastic bricking sort that - good job I haven't ballasted the track! I would add that other locos (diesel and steam) run perfectly on this track! Also had to sort out the b2b on the pony wheel of this one. It constantly derailed until I did and it needs to be accurate to the micron I suspect!

In conclusion I would say that these short wheel-base locos will run fine if you have a simple ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY laid down track. Where they are required to run through masses of points and diamond crossings etc  I have my doubts about them.

[melmerby]

 

In conclusion I would say that these short wheel-base locos will run fine if you have a simple ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY laid down track. Where they are required to run through masses of points and diamond crossings etc  I have my doubts about them.

Mine is not ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY laid and consists of some complex reverse curves, double slips, curved points etc but it runs ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY. It has not derailed or thrown off the pony truck in either direction.

I did however have to adjust the contact wipers (so that more of the wheels were making contact! - a typical Bachmann problem IMHO) as it would not run at a slow crawl (12" in 25 seconds) without stalling over the imperfections in the track.

After adjustment it was fine.

I am using Peco code 75 Electrofrog.

 

If anybody's after a SR one how is this for a good price:

http://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Bachmann-35-076-Class-E4-0-6-2-473-Southern-Green-Bachmann-35-076.html

 

Keith

[ianmaccormac]

Hi

I have taken the bodyshell apart, not too difficult, only the wire cab handrails that are a pig to get back in the correct place in the holes in the cast metal footplate. If you do want to look yourself, may I suggest taking both the front and rear mouldings off together and then any wire, tubes etc plugging into the front of the cab can be put back in easily when re-assembling. Two screws at the rear for the cab moulding, one at the front under the saddle and four up in the side tanks. Then the whole lot lifts off very easily and then the cab slots out of the tank/boiler/smokebox moulding.

The attached photo of LBSC 468 would seem to be a quick conversion potential trial as the livery is the same.

If the handrails are cut at the c/l of the chimney and then reduced in length the part remaining attached to the smokebox door (which is separate), smokebox itself cut back to be just in line with the front of the cylinder cover moulding with a very thin wrap of some material put over the smokebox and with a bit of filler to make the new shape, or just filler without the wrap, a new dome and whistle support - (SE finecast from D1/E1) - then move the existing whistle. Move the handrail knobs to c/l of chimney on smokebox sides. A very small amount of filling to cab roof and smokebox sides. All paint would be just black or white touch up. Find numerals and change in normal manner. (EB Models?)

What do people think? Once proved with this livery, then resprays to other, earlier liveries, etc can be less of a trauma. 4mm livery transfers for Stroudley from Eric Gates. Number plates from me or Mike Waldron.

Bachmann have made the diecast part in such a way that any version can be produced and as I said earlier, it is only the part of the boiler from the tanks forward, which is a separate moulding glued on to the tanks part, that would need changing, along with the handrail, the boiler fittings and the cab roof hole plugged. Lever or scew reverse has already been catered for. As the body shell mouldings are already different for the SR and LBSC versions, then maybe a whole new body tool for an early Brighton version would make more sense with mould wear etc. Anyone with an inside hot line to Bachmann?

Over to you, I have a magazine to assemble for the Brighton Circle!

Cheers

Ian

Edited May 23, 2015 by ianmaccormac

[Robin Brasher]

Hattons have told me that Bachmann will stop supplying them if they discount any new items at more than 15% and they think that Bachmann is putting more pressure on them than any other retailers.

[amdaley]

Hattons have told me that Bachmann will stop supplying them if they discount any new items at more than 15% and they think that Bachmann is putting more pressure on them than any other retailers.

The prices seem to be the same every where so I'm not sure Bachmann are putting more pressure on Hattons over any other retailer.

[phil-b259]

Hattons have told me that Bachmann will stop supplying them if they discount any new items at more than 15% and they think that Bachmann is putting more pressure on them than any other retailers.

The 15% maximum discount thing applies to ALL retailers. Traditionally because Hattons offered grater discounts not only is this situation more noticeable in price terms, but it makes Bachmann nervous that Hattons might be tempted to breech the conditions Bachmann have stipulated MUST be followed if retailers wish to continue to receive new releases with 8 weeks of them arriving at Bachmann UKs HQ.

Edited May 23, 2015 by phil-b259

[andyman7]

Hattons have told me that Bachmann will stop supplying them if they discount any new items at more than 15% and they think that Bachmann is putting more pressure on them than any other retailers.

Possibly because they are so high profile?

 

The restriction only applies in the first 8 weeks, and does seem to be helping spread custom around the whole of Bachmann's retail network. Personally, I think their approach is understandable given that they have stated that they plan to continue distribution only through authorised retailers (and have no direct channel). FWIW I also think Hornby's alternative approach is understandable (reduced trade terms and direct sales, so that outside of sales promotions prices are comparable in shop and on-line).

 

My E4 came from a (relatively) local shop who I am sure are glad of the business!

Edited May 23, 2015 by andyman7

[JSpencer]

With Bachmann no longer stating the price until we are close to release now, this also has levelled the field somewhat as shops cannot set a preorder price either unless they are prepared to upset customers resetting it to higher amounts or make a loss.

[napierlion]

I popped into Sawyer Models today as it was there first birthday (I got some birthday cake & bubbly upon my arrival) and they are selling the BR, BR Lined & Southern E4s for £89.00. As the 8 weeks has passed retailers are allowed to drop the price if they wish. I asked them about the LBSC E4 and they said it is due in week commencing 26th May.