Bachmann E4

[Andy Hayter]

I'd be confident of the assembly operatives far exceeding that figure! My estimate would be about 7 seconds incremental to the mechanism assembly if the workstation is well laid out. But whatever, I'd trade off as much of the cab interior detail as necessary - barely visible on a moving loco - for this useful feature. Clearly, what the UK market generally wants is cab interior detail however, and Bachmann have noticeably moved in that direction while dropping good mechanism features.

 

 

 

Well you may well be right, but if so then I suggest Bachmann have made a serious error in their cost savings initiative.

 

A 1000 loco run would have an incremental extra labour element of under 2 hours.

This would cost less than $8US or less than 1c per loco.

The springs themselves would cost what in bulk?  perhaps 2c each (probably much less).  So a total extra cost of 5c or less.

If Kader have a 40% mark up to Bachmann, Bachmann have a 40% mark up to the retailer and the retailer has a very generous 40% to the customer at rrp, the cost saving on the rrp is less than 20p.

Hardly the great strides in keeping costs down that we are told are being done.

[Mike Riley]

Given a choice between a sprung axle and sprung buffers I would choose the former.  What about other people?

[JSpencer]

Given a choice between a sprung axle and sprung buffers I would choose the former.  What about other people?

The E4 has neither.

 

There is space to add a stay alive capacitor, however my C class locos, with pick ups on just 6 wheels do not need them.

 

Providing the pickups are adjusted to touch all 6 wheels constantly, the pick ups are adequate in my experience. 4 wheels is a nightmare.

[JSpencer]

Busy stripping apart the E4 to fit sound, firebox glow and working lamp. Project stalled for the moment as the sugar lump is too tall...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It took about 2 days to remove the cab as it was stuck by paint. There are 4 cab door handrails to clip back in, plus blower, plus 2 other items. Reassembly should be fun!

 

Bachmann Provide a hole underneath the chassis at the rear so that you can poke a screwdriver through and pop the coal out. Anyone thinking of putting a speaker here will be disapointed. It is solid weight inside as part of the running plate casting.

 

Note the screw reverser on this model. Compare with the lever reverser as shown in the Bluebell railway video about 30 posts back.

 

 

[The Bigbee Line]

There is a lot of debate on the merits of a sprung centre axle.  I would give them a big 'yes please'.

 

In these days of 'design clever' or whatever else you want to call it.  Why not design chassis with a component that can be added or swapped to change a 'radius 2' model into a '2' radius' version?

 

I've lowered many a US outline freight car and used a 2' radius curve as my tester for truck rotation.  My E4 has peeped out of the box once.  I'm hoping that black plasticard overlays for the sideframes will take out the slop.  Why not make the loco with a chassis part that can be added to do this?  The choices would be to remove it for radius 2 or add for larger radius.  The latter would be easier for the majority who want their 'P2 to run on radius 2'.

 

I know it's pie in the sky, but I might ask Hornby.

[Nick Holliday]

 

 

Note the screw reverser on this model. Compare with the lever reverser as shown in the Bluebell railway video about 30 posts back.

The E4 class were probably the first true mixed traffic design.  The earlier E3 class were intended for goods workings, but showed promise when used on passenger trains, so the E4 was given larger driving wheels to give a better turn of speed.  The first 6, built 1897/98, were actually painted in Stroudley Goods green livery, whereas the remainder of the class came out in Stroudley's Improved Engine Green (Yellow), the passenger livery.  As part of their goods use, the next 40 of the class, including Birch Grove, retained the lever reverse, which was much better when shunting, as it allowed rapid reversal, the remainder being fitted with the screw reverser, which gave finer control, more suited to passenger work. By 1905, opinion was that the screw was superior, and there were intentions to replace the levers but the scheme was shelved after Billinton's death.

[farren]

After reading some of the comments about the lack of springing, pick up problems plus others issues. Was wondering if you would recommend this model or if you knew now what you do would you leave it alone? I ask not wanting a E4. But more wondering if the same set up will be used on the coal tank.

[Richard Lee]

When I opened the box and test-ran mine, I got a fair bit of the derailing when reversing over the curved paths of points problem.  There were also occasional issues due, I think, to the centre pair of driving wheels being a bit stiff with regard to moving up and down, and side to side.  Running-in seems to have sorted all of that, for me at least.

 

Now, I see my E4 as a very good runner.

 

Just in case, I did record some of the suggestions by kind people earlier in this thread, but so far haven't had to try to force my poor brain to try to understand them.

[JSpencer]

After reading some of the comments about the lack of springing, pick up problems plus others issues. Was wondering if you would recommend this model or if you knew now what you do would you leave it alone? I ask not wanting a E4. But more wondering if the same set up will be used on the coal tank.

Note, I brought 3 of them and I only originally intended to buy one! if they were rubbish, I would not have brought more.

[Ian Hargrave]

Note, I brought 3 of them and I only originally intended to buy one! if they were rubbish, I would not have brought more.

As did I.My response echoes yours.

[andyram]

I have still had mine out of the box. I await its performance with baited breath.

[andyram]

I am pleased to say that my E4 ran perfectly straight from the box this afternoon.

[Fireline]

I think you were lucky, then! So far I have had one or two contact issues. However, they pale into insignificance compared to the issues with the rear pony wheels derailing. I have checked the back to back, changed couplings, and tested it on it's own. So far, it only manages to derail on straight track, curved track and points. To my mind, the flange on the wheel set isn't deep enough, and that combined with a seeming lack of a spring, means that it is so far relegated to running bunker first on one section of the layout. So far, I seem to have paid £95 for an engine worth £20!

[andyram]

I think you were lucky, then! So far I have had one or two contact issues. However, they pale into insignificance compared to the issues with the rear pony wheels derailing. I have checked the back to back, changed couplings, and tested it on it's own. So far, it only manages to derail on straight track, curved track and points. To my mind, the flange on the wheel set isn't deep enough, and that combined with a seeming lack of a spring, means that it is so far relegated to running bunker first on one section of the layout. So far, I seem to have paid £95 for an engine worth £20!

I had my E4 running around my Father in Law's track mat based layout with no problems for a good hour, even whilst hauling a couple of Lima box vans.

[JimF51]

Lots of comments regarding this model since it started actually being in people's hands. So far, my impression is the majority are happy with it, no derailing issues, no running issues.

 

With all the vagaries as to track work (I'm not implying poor track work), is it actually reasonable to expect a model to run exactly the same on each and every layout?

 

Have mine ordered from a Canadian dealer.

 

Jim F

[Ian Hargrave]

I think you were lucky, then! So far I have had one or two contact issues. However, they pale into insignificance compared to the issues with the rear pony wheels derailing. I have checked the back to back, changed couplings, and tested it on it's own. So far, it only manages to derail on straight track, curved track and points. To my mind, the flange on the wheel set isn't deep enough, and that combined with a seeming lack of a spring, means that it is so far relegated to running bunker first on one section of the layout. So far, I seem to have paid £95 for an engine worth £20!

I have three and have no issues with any of them on Code 100 Peco track over a wide variety of point work and turnouts.Before making a final value judgement on the model with your example consider returning it for a replacement

[Richard Lee]

Lots of comments regarding this model since it started actually being in people's hands. So far, my impression is the majority are happy with it, no derailing issues, no running issues.

 

With all the vagaries as to track work (I'm not implying poor track work), is it actually reasonable to expect a model to run exactly the same on each and every layout?

 

Have mine ordered from a Canadian dealer.

 

Jim F

Very happy with my E4, although mine needed running in to get rid of the pony truck, and other running issues.  (Running in isn't particularly easy for me because I don't have a continuous run.)  Before running in, I would have said that the E4 either needed work done on it, or replacement.  Afterwards, it was a case of "Problems, what are they?" for me.

 

Just my experience based upon one example, but  I do suggest running it in, even if you don't always bother to do so with new locomotives.

[Charles125]

A few small points. Handle with great care and be careful who you let handle the loco. The whistle on the cab front protrudes above the cab roof and so is very easy to dislodge / lose. The sandpipes are quite delicate and if broken off are difficult to replace. Probably better to leave slightly out of line than risk breaking them. However the front high disc irons are sturdy.The moulded coal is poor.  Finally fixed, not sprung buffers.

 

9/10

 

While it is nice to have well-detailed locos, many are now not suitable for handling even slightly roughly. 

 

My favourite is undoutedly the Southern Green version! 

[DoverPriory]

I think you were lucky, then! So far I have had one or two contact issues. However, they pale into insignificance compared to the issues with the rear pony wheels derailing. I have checked the back to back, changed couplings, and tested it on it's own. So far, it only manages to derail on straight track, curved track and points. To my mind, the flange on the wheel set isn't deep enough, and that combined with a seeming lack of a spring, means that it is so far relegated to running bunker first on one section of the layout. So far, I seem to have paid £95 for an engine worth £20!

I bought  2 E4s and they are both pains in the proverbial. I will endeavour in the winter to remedy the pickup problems as outlined above.

My green southern was a particular pain in the *rse and  I had to go round my layout getting the track ABSOLUTELY LEVEL, what fun!  It's pony wheel was also a problem........the back 2 back has to be absolutely correct (to the nearest micron I suspect) and the track absolutely level as well to stop derailments.

Both my E4's are now servicable but no more Bachmann steam locos for me thankyou very much.

I am no engineer/mechanic but in my humble opinion this is not the best model Bachmann have ever produced!!

[No Decorum]

I bought  2 E4s and they are both pains in the proverbial. I will endeavour in the winter to remedy the pickup problems as outlined above.

My green southern was a particular pain in the *rse and  I had to go round my layout getting the track ABSOLUTELY LEVEL, what fun!  It's pony wheel was also a problem........the back 2 back has to be absolutely correct (to the nearest micron I suspect) and the track absolutely level as well to stop derailments.

Both my E4's are now servicable but no more Bachmann steam locos for me thankyou very much.

I am no engineer/mechanic but in my humble opinion this is not the best model Bachmann have ever produced!!

That was most unfortunate. I have two E4s and they are two of the most delightful models I have had for a while. They run well.

 

I find that three-pole motors (assuming that they are the source of running problems) are inconsistent. Some of my Bachmann steamers perform as well as I could want and I am fussy in that regard. Some, however, are poor.

 

Not wishing to single Bachmann out, I found just the same with Hornby when it reverted to three-pole motors. Of the eight-coupled GWR tanks, one was good, one poor in reverse and the third was poor altogether. If at all possible, try before you buy is a good maxim.

[andyram]

Have to say my E4 runs like a dream. A beautiful model.

[Edwardian]

As I don't yet have a layout, I ran mine around the circuit at the place of purchase.  Code 100 set track, including running over points.  She ran well, with only a slight raggedness that I suspect running-in would iron out.  No apparent derailment issues.

[ChrisG]

Having been one of the first on this forum to criticise the Bachmann E4 for poor running I thought I had better chime in again now with greater experience and with what I hope are the solutions to the problems. The pictures show how I have shoe-horned in a DCC Concepts chip with a "stay alive" capacitor. It took direct correspondence with DCC Concepts to discover that for the "Stay Alive" to do its job rather than to cause the loco to jump around like a startled rabbit, you have to turn off the DC running capability in CV29 (it's a pity the instructions don't seem to mention that, and it mystified me for quite a while).

 

Fitting the "stay alive" meant removing the two capacitors, but DCC Concepts says they are completely unecessary, and I needed the space!  This saved making any modifications to or holes in the body of the loco. 

 

The additional pickups on the outer axles have reduced the problems with current collection. In hindsight I would have done better to put pick ups on the centre axle, because I am now pretty sure that it is the lack of up and down movement in that axle, plus the inherent unreliability of the pick-ups  which causes the problem when, on uneven track, the loco ends up balancing on the middle axle. By making this modification I have forgone the brake rodding, but I am perfectly happy as reliable operation is my goal. It was an easy modification. PCB was araldited on the bottom., left to set for 24 hours. .45mm brass wire bent to shape and soldered in place, with the connection to the motor via the brass studs on the Bachmann pick up strip. No need to dismantle anything at all.

 

On my track, the trailing radial axle does derail, particularly when running in reverse. I'm happy to accept some of the blame lies in my handbuilt pointwork, but watching it closely with a critical eye as it runs  it does look fundamentally poorly engineered. 

 

I also have general observations about the level of detail on the model (bearing in mind I am a newbie to R-T-R, having previously built my own locomotives). The detail is exceptional but the durability is extremely poor. Details which would be solidly soldered onto a brass or whitemetal kit are soft plastic items which are just clipped on and just as easily fall off. It seems to be a model to be displayed in glass cases and not to be handled or allowed to romp around a layout. Even the chimney is a clip on addition, and yes, I managed to knock it off! 

 

You'll never make everyone happy all the time but I would happily forego some of the detail for the sake of a sprung middle axle and better pick-ups. 

 

That said, now it is running reasonably well as a result of these modifications, it is a very nice-looking model and a good addition to my loco stud.

 

 

Chris Gardner

[JSpencer]

Yes, you have to pay more attention handling modern RTR items.

 

I used to complain about that:

A1, cab popped off while picking up the running plate (it flexed)

Schools class, back head sprung out during postage

Class 23 lamp irons disappear from time to time

Class 28 sand pipes pop off

T9 tender handrails snapped by loco full plate (while placing it in the design cabinet)

 

Unlike kit locos that are soldered....

 

But you learn to pay more attention and handle them better overtime (and you don,t let anyone else touch them).

 

I am surprised you did not hard wire the chip! I am doing that with mine as I need to add a speaker (need to get a smaller speaker first which is holding things up).

[ChrisG]

I am not intending to add sound and using a plug in chip makes maintenance easier. My kit built E1 has suddenly developed a dead short - I can see nothing which has caused it and therefore suspect the chip. Which is hard wired so means a soldering job...

 

chris