Spannerman Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) After waiting for an E4 two arrive at once. 1 in green from the wife for my birthday and Birch Grove off eBay for about £25 less than the cost of joining the collectors club and paying for the model. Both look excellent to my fairly limited knowledge. For those quibbling over the price you pay your money and make your choices if things sell out don't moan about limited supplies, and if you get a bargain lucky you. No one is in business as a charity and costs must be met particularly if the business is to continue. Atb Nik Edited November 2, 2015 by Spannerman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floreat Industria Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Kernow have the LBSC Umber model today at 69.95! I think it's better than Birch Grove as it's a real livery rather than one (albeit very nice) made up in preservation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigwamcan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Can anyone tell me how to get to the 6-pin socket on the E4? I've whipped out the two screws under each coupling but it's still held fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2015 Can anyone tell me how to get to the 6-pin socket on the E4? I've whipped out the two screws under each coupling but it's still held fast.If you look at the provided diagram, there is a third screw beneath the rear drivers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You may remember that the Bachmann E4 was one of the subjects of the Hattons pre-order saga. In September 2014 I ordered a LBSC version at a guaranteed price of £76.46. When it arrived in June 2015 Hattons deducted £97.46 including £4 postage from my credit card account. Now Hattons have over 10 left and are offering them for sale at £80 each. I am surprised that the sales of all three versions of the E4 were not better as it is a lovely model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I thought guaranteed pre order prices were just that, guaranteed ? Bachmann putting the price up obviously annoyed a lot of people & now they are left unsold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I thought guaranteed pre order prices were just that, guaranteed ? Bachmann putting the price up obviously annoyed a lot of people & now they are left unsold. You would have thought so. I got an e-mail from Hattons telling me that, due to price rises at Bachmann, they could no longer guarantee the price they had "guaranteed" to me. It's not the first time, but it will be the last. I voted with my feet, and took my custom elsewhere for the future. I have no problem with price rises per se, but when you have deliberately cut all the flesh off your price to get the pre-orders, so you can't accommodate a price rise to you, imagine how much sympathy I have at that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You would have thought so. I got an e-mail from Hattons telling me that, due to price rises at Bachmann, they could no longer guarantee the price they had "guaranteed" to me. It's not the first time, but it will be the last. I voted with my feet, and took my custom elsewhere for the future. I have no problem with price rises per se, but when you have deliberately cut all the flesh off your price to get the pre-orders, so you can't accommodate a price rise to you, imagine how much sympathy I have at that point. Now I have never had any problems with ordering from Hattons but when I saw that guaranteed no longer meant guaranteed I stopped pre ordering. I will still order from them as they have given me excellent service but no more pre orders & I will always look elsewhere for a better price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 I bought my 579 from Kernow for £69.95. They may still have some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You would have thought so. I got an e-mail from Hattons telling me that, due to price rises at Bachmann, they could no longer guarantee the price they had "guaranteed" to me. It's not the first time, but it will be the last. I voted with my feet, and took my custom elsewhere for the future. I have no problem with price rises per se, but when you have deliberately cut all the flesh off your price to get the pre-orders, so you can't accommodate a price rise to you, imagine how much sympathy I have at that point. This has been gone over again and again, but to remind everyone, Bachmann enforce a maximum discount of 15% on their list price during the first 15 weeks of a model's release, so Hattons would not have been supplied if they hadn't honoured this. Now the period has passed, they are free to further discount unsold stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 This has been gone over again and again, but to remind everyone, Bachmann enforce a maximum discount of 15% on their list price during the first 15 weeks of a model's release, so Hattons would not have been supplied if they hadn't honoured this. Now the period has passed, they are free to further discount unsold stock. Yes, I understand that. But if they have guaranteed us a price, why not tell us they will put them aside for the 15 weeks, then charge us what they promised they would in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes, I understand that. But if they have guaranteed us a price, why not tell us they will put them aside for the 15 weeks, then charge us what they promised they would in the first place? Because they see it doesn't fit with the "I want it now!" mentality of many purchasers, who would rather pay extra for their early gratification and might cancel their order. Not a few models in recent times have been over-subscribed, too, so some would doubt that the model might actually be safe in the 15-week vault. Then there's the small matter of cash-flow........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes, I understand that. But if they have guaranteed us a price, why not tell us they will put them aside for the 15 weeks, then charge us what they promised they would in the first place? Simple answer lack of cash flow. What you suggest could tie up thousands of pounds, I don't think the shareholders or the millionaire owner in this case would be very happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I suppose one way might be to charge people who pre order immediately & guarantee the price that way. If you pay immediately we'll guarantee the price but if you wait the price may go up. The retailer gets the money in for a model which might not be supplied for some time & the buyer gets a guaranteed price. Seeing that the price quoted is no longer guaranteed may put people of pre ordering at all or then again it may make little difference ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted December 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes, I understand that. But if they have guaranteed us a price, why not tell us they will put them aside for the 15 weeks, then charge us what they promised they would in the first place? Because, if demand was high then Hattons could lose out on sales at the higher price. Shops are have staff and bills to pay and it is economic suicide to put off custom for 15 weeks with no garuntee that the potential purchaser will actually go ahead and buy the model. Away from the world of model railways, Stores don't (with the notable exception of soft furnishing stores) discount new lines straight away do they? No they offer it at full price, and then discount latter once the initial market has been satisfied with the biggest discounts being used to clear unsold stock. For as long as Bachmann impose their 15 week rule Hattons and all other retailers will continue to retail items at a higher price. As a customer, you or I face a simple choice. Don't pre-order and hope that after 15 weeks, as with the E4, stock is still available or pay the higher price and garuntee to get one. There is of course nothing to stop anyone holding off ordering initially and keeping an eye on Hattons real time stock levels so as to be ready to put in an order if it looks like a particular model might be sold out before the 15 weeks are up, but it is down to you / I the consumer to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) What happens if the shop goes bust in the meantime whilst you are waiting for the item to come into stock??? I also doubt that you would have a valid Section 75 claim if paying by credit card. Some manufacturers as we know take an eternity from announcing a model to having it on general release... Edited December 22, 2015 by Black 5 Bear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete47401 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 It's 8 weeks not 15 weeks, chaps, not so long to wait. People come to expect the imminent price drop, so you might sell for higher prices in the first 8 weeks, but in lesser quantities than of old. Swings and roundabouts..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted December 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2015 What happens if the shop goes bust in the meantime whilst you are waiting for the item to come into stock??? I also doubt that you would have a valid Section 75 claim if paying by credit card. Some manufacturers as we know take an eternity from announcing a model to having it on general release... Under UK general trading rules, including the section 75 you refer to, your contract to purchase is with the retailer not the manufacturer. As such if the shop goes bust and you have paid in advance (which I have yet to see for model railway items), then the fact the manufacturer has been late in delivering items to the retailer makes no difference - the retailer has not honoured the contract and they are the guilty party in law. If the cost of your order is over £75.00 then you can successfully claim the money back from the card issuer and leave them to fight it out with the other creditors of the business. For many years Which have been pointing this out - and attempts by banks or retailers to direct people to withhold monies don't usually come to anything once threatened by Which lawyers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Under UK general trading rules, including the section 75 you refer to, your contract to purchase is with the retailer not the manufacturer. As such if the shop goes bust and you have paid in advance (which I have yet to see for model railway items), then the fact the manufacturer has been late in delivering items to the retailer makes no difference - the retailer has not honoured the contract and they are the guilty party in law. If the cost of your order is over £75.00 then you can successfully claim the money back from the card issuer and leave them to fight it out with the other creditors of the business. For many years Which have been pointing this out - and attempts by banks or retailers to direct people to withhold monies don't usually come to anything once threatened by Which lawyers But note, only with a CREDIT card, not a DEBIT card! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) PayPal by all accounts, which quite a few shops now use may or may not be covered by Section 75 as there is some legal question as to who is the named trader/company. Edited December 22, 2015 by Black 5 Bear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted December 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2015 But note, only with a CREDIT card, not a DEBIT card! Indeed - and while accepting not everybody can get one, I always pay by credit card for that very reason. It's a no brainer really providing you are disaplined enough to pay it all off when the bill arrives then it is a very effective way of managing things and gives quite a lot of protection if things go wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 PayPal by all accounts, which quite a few shops now use may or may not be covered by Section 75 as there is some legal question as to who is the named trader/company. A Paypal transaction is immeadiate so most shops won't (can't) accept it for pre-orders. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the conditions of Paypal is that the vendsor is in possetion of the goods at the time of sale. In this case the pre-order price gurantee could not apply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted December 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2015 PayPal by all accounts, which quite a few shops now use may or may not be covered by Section 75 as there is some legal question as to who is the named trader/company. If shops are using PayPal as a payment processing authority then you will be covered. While it may not be obvious to the user, there is a big differeannce between PayPal as a payment processing authority (i.e. Handles the processing of payments for small retailers) and PayPal as the actual means of payment. If in doubt ensure that any payments made by Paypall come from a credit card, from your PayPal account balance, a debit or bank account. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 We don't know how many E4s Bachmann made. Following the success of the C class Bachmann may have made more E4s which would account for the present surplus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Just checked with my credit card company in relation to S75 cover. They state the amount placed on the card must be a minimum £100 and maximum £30,000 to qualify for cover under the above legislation. This is UK law and applies to all credit suppliers. They also advised in relation to PayPal payments to check the supplier and the company are one and the same and not some other third party individual. A good resume of this legislation is contained on moneysupermarket which may prove valuable at this time of year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now