RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2015 The problem is this site and not IE 11. To correct the issue you need to change to the RMweb_2013 theme. Go to the bottom of this page and click "change theme". Select the 2013 theme and then restart IE. All should then work for you. Bingo!! You were right RFS. Many thanks, Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hmmm.... Hattons website lists loco at £ 93.46, but if I log into my account and look at my pre-orders it still comes up at £84.96. Will have to give them a ring and find out which is the correct price..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would not worry about availability, The Locos will come around again perhaps with a Different number, I don't panic about this anymore, after all the effort in producing this there is hardly going to be one of each type coming out and then none ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I haven't had an email from Hattons about the E4 since the confirmation of my pre-order at £76.45. I logged on to eHattons and looked at my pre-orders. The E4 is shown as £93.46. I still want it at this price (which I don't think is excessive if the E4 is comparable with a Hornby M7). However, I am a bit bemused that they haven't let me know about the price increase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I haven't had an email from Hattons about the E4 since the confirmation of my pre-order at £76.45. I logged on to eHattons and looked at my pre-orders. The E4 is shown as £93.46. I still want it at this price (which I don't think is excessive if the E4 is comparable with a Hornby M7). However, I am a bit bemused that they haven't let me know about the price increase. FYI I have just received an e mail from them re: the outstanding Porthole brake from my original order quoting and apologising for the price increase.Agree with your comparison with the Hornby M7,especially when that model needs added weight to enable adequate haulage capacity,excellent model though it is. Edited March 19, 2015 by Ian Hargrave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 II hadn't noticed that the early crest version was unlined. Duly cancelled... Not really about the price but about the time it would take me to add the lining. Having done one in the past that bunker side reverse curve is a . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 A call to Hattons confirmed that the price has risen to £93.46 and the old price (£84.96 in my case) won't be honoured. A second call to my local model shop returns a price that is very similar to the increased Hattons price. Result: Order for LBSCR and SR versions placed with my local shop, Hattons orders cancelled. A few commentators have predicted that the price rises and general tightening of margins will hit the 'box-shifters' first, and I wonder if we're seeing the beginning of that? CheersAdrian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Firstly Hattons have 'form' for posting unrealistic prices initially. IIRC, last year they posted prices pretty quickly after Bachmann's announcements - and even Bachmann said they were no more than guess work on as Bachmann themselves had no idea what the likely retail price was going to be when the models finally arrived here. A good rule of thumb should be if most other retailers are showing the price of a model to be TBA (to be advised) then there is no way that Hattons can guarantee they will honour said price. Thus all those complaining about the dramatic rise in the price of the E4 from Hattons, frankly should have seen it coming - especially with all the noises coming from Bachmann over the past few years about significant price hikes being needed. Secondly while commodity prices (i.e. oil - used for fuel and as the raw materials for models), metals, etc may well have been falling - you have chosen to ignore the fact that labour costs are rising much much faster. Remember our finely detailed models don't assemble themselves by magic - it is the nimble fingers of lots of Chinese ladies (mainly) that apply all this fine detail we are demanding these days and they have just as much right as you or I do to receive improved wages and improved Ts & Cs as the Chinese economy develops. Thirdly there IS a point in making high quality models if only a few can afford them - its called taking advantage of a business oppotunity. Presumably you would also argue that there is no point in producing Ferrari cars on the basis that only a few people can afford them. At the end of the day Bachman are in the business of making money - they are not a charity. As such it may be that due to price rises they find themselves moving more to the 'smaller sales volume but high detail at a high price end' of the model spectrum while others cater for the 'high volume, lower price, lower detail' end of the market. There is nothing inherently evil, immoral or wrong about such a situation - indeed such an approach already exists in cars, supermarkets, clothes stores, why should it not also be true of model railways - which (and lets not kid ourselves here) definitely count as a 'luxuary' item when it comes to consumer spending. Yes but these are mass produced models, not Ferraris which are handmade minimum made to order items. It is a model train, hardly a luxury item (or shouldn't be) and not a necessity in any shape or form. If Bachmann want to delude themselves that no matter what they price items at, they will always sell then they maybe getting a nasty shock . A very big bubble may soon be bursting !! If and thats a big if they can get away with still selling most items. 40% or price increases when the majority are getting 1% pay rises and even less for savings dont add up in the real world . The evidence will soon be here if retailers are stuck with items and big discounts suddenly appear . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Model railways are somewhat a luxury item. I'll still buy my LBSC E4, but the price increases across the board mean that the impulse purchases are no more. I have an Oxford Rail Adams Radial still on preorder, but that's it. I was going to preorder the SECR birdcages, but I'll wait now to see what price they come out at - they may be the only purchases I make new in the year they get released. As I've said in another thread, I'm extremely lucky that I've been able to amass quite a collection over the last fifteen years. It must be really hard for those starting in this hobby as I did a decade and a half ago. I remember picking up then the Bachmann class 04 for under £30, the class 25s when they appeared with change out of £40. Wagons were available for around £4.50 back then too. Good times sorely missed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The price of the E4 compares favourably with tank locos of similar size. The L&Y tank, just a tad more. The M7, about 10% less The O2, about 25% less It is the same price as the much smaller well tank, about 10% more than Oxfords Adams but 15% less than Hornby's. This is not to say that the others are bad. (Some are even exclusives). When you consider the E4 was never a popular loco even by kit manufacturers, we can hardly complain really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 You spends your money etc... but when I look at the Hornby Terrier I see this. p.s. this guy is a genius LEGO builder. https://www.flickr.com/photos/93540898@N06/ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 but when I look at the Hornby Terrier I see this.So Stoudley's Improved Engine Green is what LEGO calls nougat, or is that the elusive dark tan? It's hard to tell. Either way, that LEGO model probably wasn't cheaper than a Hornby Terrier. LEGO train models in that scale are great. People are doing amazing things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 II hadn't noticed that the early crest version was unlined. Duly cancelled... Not really about the price but about the time it would take me to add the lining. Having done one in the past that bunker side reverse curve is a ######. Order the lined late crest version, then remove the crest and apply a transfer for the early crest. I have done this in reverse on quite a few occasions, where I have bought a Bachmann or Hornby early crest loco and changed them to late crest. It is not usually that difficult to remove the printing; I usually use a track rubber or ink rubber, but I and others have had success with T-cut on cotton buds too. The T-cut method can leave a shiny patch, which is actually better for applying transfers to, but means you have to consider weathering or matt / satin varnishing the whole tank side (or tender side in the case of some other locos). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) I have an E4 pre-ordered from Hatton's for £76 and so far I've had no emails about price increase .... Just checked my pre-orders again today and now the price is showing as £93.46, whereas it was showing £76.46 a couple of days ago. No email from Hatton's informing me. I've looked at other box-shifters, and Model Railways Direct also have the model at £93.46! Also a bit miffed that a few months ago I paid £120 each for a couple of Hornby 2HALs, and now they're on sale at Kernow's for £89.99. And my 2BILs cost me £100 - now even Hornby as well as Kernow are selling them for £59.99, and this includes the recently available all-blue version. So should I cancel my E4 order and wait for the sales? Edited March 20, 2015 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2015 Just checked my pre-orders again today and now the price is showing as £93.46, whereas it was showing £76.46 a couple of days ago. No email from Hatton's informing me. I've looked at other box-shifters, and Model Railways Direct also have the model at £93.46! Also a bit miffed that a few months ago I paid £120 each for a couple of Hornby 2HALs, and now they're on sale at Kernow's for £89.99. And my 2BILs cost me £100 - now even Hornby as well as Kernow are selling them for £59.99, and this includes the recently available all-blue version. So should I cancel my E4 order and wait for the sales? If you do and it one of the "pretty" liveries, you can be sure it'll sell out in the blink of an eye and attract prices like the SECR C Class 592... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Yes but these are mass produced models, not Ferraris which are handmade minimum made to order items. It is a model train, hardly a luxury item (or shouldn't be) and not a necessity in any shape or form. If Bachmann want to delude themselves that no matter what they price items at, they will always sell then they maybe getting a nasty shock . A very big bubble may soon be bursting !! If and thats a big if they can get away with still selling most items. 40% or price increases when the majority are getting 1% pay rises and even less for savings dont add up in the real world . The evidence will soon be here if retailers are stuck with items and big discounts suddenly appear . Spot on Sir, I couldn't agree more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Just checked my pre-orders again today and now the price is showing as £93.46, whereas it was showing £76.46 a couple of days ago. No email from Hatton's informing me. I've looked at other box-shifters, and Model Railways Direct also have the model at £93.46! Also a bit miffed that a few months ago I paid £120 each for a couple of Hornby 2HALs, and now they're on sale at Kernow's for £89.99. And my 2BILs cost me £100 - now even Hornby as well as Kernow are selling them for £59.99, and this includes the recently available all-blue version. So should I cancel my E4 order and wait for the sales? I think Hornby have yet to work out what the size of the market for EMUs actually is! As for taking a chance with the E4, it depends whether you consider the silent majority (those who don't post on forums) are thinking the same way as the vociferous minority (those who do).......... If you can get that consistently right, a lucrative career awaits you with any political party you care to think of. John Edited March 21, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just checked my pre-orders again today and now the price is showing as £93.46, whereas it was showing £76.46 a couple of days ago. No email from Hatton's informing me. I've looked at other box-shifters, and Model Railways Direct also have the model at £93.46! Also a bit miffed that a few months ago I paid £120 each for a couple of Hornby 2HALs, and now they're on sale at Kernow's for £89.99. And my 2BILs cost me £100 - now even Hornby as well as Kernow are selling them for £59.99, and this includes the recently available all-blue version. So should I cancel my E4 order and wait for the sales? Bachmann production runs are based more on a firm order book unlike Hornby which tends to speculate what the demand will be. This leads to Hornby with either not enough or too much. The only way there will be excess Bachmann locos is if retailers suddenly find themselves getting mass cancellations due to the unexpected prise increase since announcement. Even here I suspect those cancelling will be balanced out by those sitting and waiting to see the model before they buy. So while we cannot exclude the idea of bargains appearing eventually, it is less likely to happen. Of course if everyone waits for prices to drop to bargain levels, then manufacturers will cease making detailed models and go for design clever. In practice everyone won't. I brought 1 HAL and 1 bil at full discounted price when they came out, but only brought extra BILs when they were put in the bargain bin. I only ever really wanted one E4, that of the preserved member. Was utterly surprised when Bachmann announced it ( there are more popular tank engines to choose from, liked the Adams radial or a H class) . There seems to be no detailed variations between the SR and BR versions, so I only really have an argument to buy one of these models (the Dapol B4 comes with 2 variations of the same Bluebell member). I actually very nearly brought an E4 kit a few years back.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just checked my pre-orders again today and now the price is showing as £93.46, whereas it was showing £76.46 a couple of days ago. No email from Hatton's informing me. I've looked at other box-shifters, and Model Railways Direct also have the model at £93.46! Also a bit miffed that a few months ago I paid £120 each for a couple of Hornby 2HALs, and now they're on sale at Kernow's for £89.99. And my 2BILs cost me £100 - now even Hornby as well as Kernow are selling them for £59.99, and this includes the recently available all-blue version. So should I cancel my E4 order and wait for the sales? A useful exercise is to watch the prices both retail and e bay of recently released models such as the L&Y tanks,the J11 and the 1F. You might also take note that new runs of existing models..eg. the Jubilees are now subject to price cuts in certain quarters. It also appears that the MetCam dmu isn't shifting.No easy answer. Your decision alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I emailed Hatton's this morning to ask if I could change from early totem to later crest (to get the lining). Email back confirming change was received 30 minutes later. Job done, well done Hatton's. I can repaint any bargain E4's into unlined black. That's if there are any? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservationModeller Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I imagine there will bargains of some. Does anyone expect the LBSC version to sell out? I can see a repeat of the lined SECR C class. I'm a tad confuses at this thought though: How can the prise rise affect already-shipped models? It can't cost more to produce something that is already on its way to shops. I could understand it affecting future batches, but why this already-made set? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I emailed Hatton's this morning to ask if I could change from early totem to later crest (to get the lining). Email back confirming change was received 30 minutes later. Job done, well done Hatton's. I can repaint any bargain E4's into unlined black. That's if there are any? Same with Jane's Trains when I swapped from Southern to Umber. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) I suspect that the LBSCR version may well sell out quickly, so those of you who really, really want one ought to pre-order. If they don't sell out from people wanting pretty display case locomotives, I can see the Ebay gougers hoovering them all up, and we wouldn't want to encourage them to inflate the price up any more. As for the others, I'm not so sure they will sell out so quickly. Edited March 22, 2015 by Jenny Emily Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted March 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2015 How can the prise rise affect already-shipped models? It can't cost more to produce something that is already on its way to shops. I could understand it affecting future batches, but why this already-made set? two possibilities come to mind. 1. The invoice and invoice price are only created at shipping (dispatch from China). Bachmann UK did not know the final price until then. More likely 2. The invoice will be in US$ (Kader's international currency) and the changes in pound to dollar have forced up the price in GBP £. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted March 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2015 two possibilities come to mind. 1. The invoice and invoice price are only created at shipping (dispatch from China). Bachmann UK did not know the final price until then. More likely 2. The invoice will be in US$ (Kader's international currency) and the changes in pound to dollar have forced up the price in GBP £. I think I need to explain point 1 better, since I am sure many will not understand how Bachmann UK can commission a model and not know the price - even if it is in US$. The reason for point 1 is that the price quoted for the model may include elements or not. Let us guess that the price is $75. If that is the price delivered to Barwell, all well and good. If however that is the price in China (much more likely) then Kader will organise and charge for export, shipping and customs clearance and these will all be added to the bill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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